[stevebrot]

Have people really got nothing better to do?

This thread being in the rumors section*, the conclusion might be that they probably don't.


Steve

* I don't think it started out here, otherwise I probably would not have commented.

[Ronald Oakes]

Meh...underwhelmed....
I will check back in 2024 and see if anything has actually materialized.
Now....back to my movie !

[Wheatfield]

This thread being in the rumors section*, the conclusion might be that they probably don't.


Steve

What has happened is that this thread has been thoroughly hijacked by a couple of people who have deliberately and quite maliciously misrepresented what has been said by a number of other people.
Biz-engineer and sftphotography, I'm looking at you.

[TwoUptons]

Meh...underwhelmed....
I will check back in 2024 and see if anything has actually materialized.
Now....back to my movie !

That's a really long movie...

-Eric

---------- Post added 08-24-21 at 05:01 PM ----------

In the town where I live you'll sometimes see a scruffy-looking old guy wandering around with a battered old film camera around his neck, occasionally taking a snap of someone or something that grabs his attention. To look at him, any advanced amateur with a bagful of top-of-the-range gear might assume that the decrepit old duffer hasn't got a clue. Thing is though, the old guy who looks like a tramp is David Bailey.

I met Harry Callahan in the mid-90s. Sold him some film. Same kind of deal. Polite old guy with a camera... no big deal, right?

Once I saw some of his work... dang...

And I did once ride 107 miles on a $600 bicycle. People told me when I bought it I should get the next model up. "It's 400 g lighter".
My response? "The more I ride this one, the lighter it gets..."

-Eric

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

You do realize that the trips I listed were taken on bicycles, right?

How are you going to get the wheels of the ground when your bike is weighted down like that ?

This is more my style

[shardulm]

K-1iii is the next logical move.
And yes 645Z is still the best medium format in town which they will enrich.

[Digitalis]

This is more my style

This is mine.

[biz-engineer]

Biz-engineer and sftphotography, I'm looking at you.

It looks like the thread was started by me and it was derailed by people talking about smartphones, which has nothing to do with what new Pentax cameras Ricoh might make. Then, other people chimed in with smartphones stuff. SFT was initially talking about his wish for new medium format camera, he just reacted to the camera phone thingy claiming you don't need more than a phone to be a good photog, I don't consider neither of us hijacked the "what Pentax camera might be next? Speculation".

[Dartmoor Dave]

It looks like the thread was started by me and it was derailed by people talking about smartphones, which has nothing to do with what new Pentax cameras Ricoh might make. Then, other people chimed in with smartphones stuff. SFT was initially talking about his wish for new medium format camera, he just reacted to the camera phone thingy claiming you don't need more than a phone to be a good photog, I don't consider neither of us hijacked the "what Pentax camera might be next? Speculation".

Looking back through the thread, and without naming any names, it went like this:

One or two members said Pentax should introduce a low cost entry-level model next.

One or two other members said that the market for low cost entry-level DSLRs has gone, because people who might have bought a camera like that in the past are now using smartphones.

Yet another one or two members misinterpreted that as an assertion that smartphones can replace DSLRs in all circumstances. Which it wasn't.

So it morphed into an argument about whether you need to own any particular sort of camera to be a good photographer, or whether you just need to be a good photographer to be a good photographer.

[biz-engineer]

For me:
- photography skill set (compositional etc) is independent from equipment
- there is no doubt that even an entry level apsc camera deliver better image quality and is a more versatile (wide range if interchangeable lenses , primes and zooms) tool than a smartphone
- the market size (in volume) doesn't necessarily correlate with image quality, people chose a smartphone vs camera with varying amount of effort versus image quality concerns, i.e for some people phone IQ is good enough therefore they don't put any effort into carrying a standalone camera, IQ expectation is key
- if entry level camera means the price is low, there may not be enough market to make a profit, and this has nothing to do with image quality. Good example is the price of latest Olympus models, $3000 for a micro4/3 sensor, it means they can't turn a profit at low camera prices, camera features may be those of entry level the price still has to be high enough for the camera company to make a profit out of it. That's probably why the Pentax K3 III is packed with features and is priced high.

[house]

This thread will be viewed by future historians as a great example of people talking past each other on a online forum.

About gear and IQ. One of my old k100d photos taken in terrible low light conditions was recently published by an international magazine. Thing is I offered a very similar tripod K-1 image but they by far preferred the technically awful k100d photo...

[reh321]

- if entry level camera means the price is low, there may not be enough market to make a profit, and this has nothing to do with image quality. Good example is the price of latest Olympus models, $3000 for a micro4/3 sensor, it means they can't turn a profit at low camera prices, camera features may be those of entry level the price still has to be high enough for the camera company to make a profit out of it. That's probably why the Pentax K3 III is packed with features and is priced high.

“Entry camera” to me means camera which is entry point. Punct. Entry point for Leica is not inexpensive, and Pentax has similar aspirations. K-70 is “APS-C” entry point for them right now; I had thought KP might be, but that is clearly not true, so I expect a K-70 follow up with some of the K-3iii features - the processor would be an obvious step; 4K video and better use of vintage lenses are firmware, so they would be basically free at this point. I believe the prism would add too much to the cost, so only the focusing would be uncertain. I may purchase it if they include the K-3iii focusing - just as I purchased the KP because of the graceful use of high ISO values - if they can keep the price down around $1K. They have already shown that build quality is not a requirement for their “entry level”, and I believe that they don’t need to use a K-3iii level prism to show off the concept ….. K-70 prism is adequate at this point.

added: at one point, I thought they would develop a 24mp "FF" camera by combining firmware from their "APS-C" line with K-1 hardware + new sensor, but such did not turn out to be the case.
I expect a K-1iii - which will be priced too high to be a starting point for most, so they might follow the 'Sony' path and continue selling the K-1ii; they have probably paid off development costs by now, so they might even allow the price to droop. This would be superior to using the K-70 as introduction to the entire line, because they cannot depend on having nice camera-store folk point out to buyers that DFA lenses would make sense for someone thinking of 'moving up'. I have intentionally collected several old 35mm lenses for my K-30. allowing me to control aperture at the lens now, with the thought that they would initially be usable on a K-1 if I decided to move in that direction.

[johnmflores]

Apologies for my contribution to the derailment. My thoughts on the three new cameras and the market in general.

The box store, mass market, palette full of dSLRs with two mediocre kit lenses, and a cheap bag is dead. Thanks, iPhone.

The iPhone and its ilk continue to swim upstream, with advanced processing, larger sensors, and multiple lenses. There are 1" sensor phones (Sharp?). There are phones with optical zooms and separate shutter buttons (Sony Xperia 1 iii). Someday, we'll have a 1" sensor with 200mm equivalent focal length, image stabilisation, advanced image processing - noise reduction, subject tracking, etc..., and instant sharing. That will kill the under $1000 ILC for good.

The "creator" market is booming. In recent surveys asking younger folks about career choices, "YouTuber" is frequently near the top of the list. So cameras that appeal to this market (Lumix G100, Sony ZV-1/10, DJI Pocket, Insta360 etc...) are going after a growing segment. Here, good 4k video and audio (multiple mics and/or mic jack) are important.

Not sure if Ricoh/Pentax have the chops to compete in this area, but I do hope that their newest cameras have some improvement in video/audio.

Theta and Vecnos has the potential to compete in this space, but they've fallen far behind Insta360 with regards to video, image stabilization, and app support.

It's more likely that they will continue to lean into their current direction, i.e., a poor person's Leica - quality, quirky, anachronistic (mirrors in 2021?!), ergonomic, jewels - and priced accordingly.

Personally, I'd love a revised GR with 4k video, a mic jack, and a wide-angle adapter (24mm?). I'd take it everywhere and shoot stills and b-roll and vlog with that.

[ThorSanchez]

Not sure if Ricoh/Pentax have the chops to compete in this area, but I do hope that their newest cameras have some improvement in video/audio.

I have a K-3 Mark III and haven't taken any videos yet because I don't have any idea what I'm doing with regards to video. But some others here on the forums have posted example videos with the Mark III and they look pretty good to my amateur eyes. I think the stabilization in combination with more lenses with focusing motors has made Pentax video useable, finally. Although I don't know if the codecs and other technical aspects are up to par. I'd assume other brands like Fuji are still quite a ways ahead.

[fs999]

I don't understand why moderators shut the DFA 21 post and not this one which is totally irrelevant...