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09-16-2021, 07:45 PM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
Is that GR3M a monochrome version? Otherwise I don't understand the M. Curious to learn what that might yield, but it doesn't sound unlogical. Any ideas about the sensor involved?
It's the monochrome version of GR3
The known info is that the price maybe close to twice that of GR3

09-16-2021, 09:52 PM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by lemono Quote
It's the monochrome version of GR3
The known info is that the price maybe close to twice that of GR3
Twice the price just for omitting the Bayer array in front of the sensor?
09-17-2021, 12:34 AM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
Is that GR3M a monochrome version? Otherwise I don't understand the M. Curious to learn what that might yield, but it doesn't sound unlogical. Any ideas about the sensor involved?
I guess so. And the GR3X is the X chromosome version ... ?
09-17-2021, 01:28 AM   #304
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Next 645 has to be FF to shake the market.

09-17-2021, 01:52 AM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Twice the price just for omitting the Bayer array in front of the sensor?
Yes, it has to do with economies of scale. There will be far less demand so they'll need higher margins to make the product worth it. It's a very specialized product and it'll be worth every penny to those people.

If demand proved to be as high as for a normal GR you'd see prices drop rapidly.
09-17-2021, 02:06 AM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote

If demand proved to be as high as for a normal GR you'd see prices drop rapidly.
Not necessarily, if demand stays up at a higher price there will be no incentive to drop the prices. If *initial* demand is high but tapers off quickly (as typical of a small but very dedicated target market), then we could see drops in price to capture the ones who hesitate because of cost.
Besides, the Monochrome version wouldn't be *much* more expensive to make - only whatever extra Sony charges for shipping a batch of the usual GRiii sensors without the CFA.
09-17-2021, 02:08 AM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Twice the price just for omitting the Bayer array in front of the sensor?
Yep, This specially customized sensor itself is more expensive than the common version, coupled with the low sales expectation of the marketing department.

09-17-2021, 02:48 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Not necessarily, if demand stays up at a higher price there will be no incentive to drop the prices. If *initial* demand is high but tapers off quickly (as typical of a small but very dedicated target market), then we could see drops in price to capture the ones who hesitate because of cost.
Besides, the Monochrome version wouldn't be *much* more expensive to make - only whatever extra Sony charges for shipping a batch of the usual GRiii sensors without the CFA.
The margins on these cameras likely aren't amazing as it is. I can't see making a separate SKU that needs its own manufacturing to be cheap.
09-17-2021, 03:34 AM - 1 Like   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
The margins on these cameras likely aren't amazing as it is. I can't see making a separate SKU that needs its own manufacturing to be cheap.
I wouldn't think the GR has low margins - it's a small compact with an off-the-shelf sensor that is present in 400€ cameras as well. The GR lens, while excellent, doesn't strike me as particularly super expensive to make either - and its R&D cost would have been absorbed by the GRiii itself.

The GRiiiX is a good example here: it's 100€ more expensive than the "standard" camera, and its whole optics system has changed. A Mono camera would require less changes. Sure, lower volume so higher margins, but I would hope it would be a bit more expensive than the X model, not something like 1500€.
09-17-2021, 03:37 AM   #310
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Twice the price is a bit ofta an ask with the GR. I love the cameras but they do wear out. Part is choosen components and build and part is that they live a tough life. You can take them everywhere and few use a protective dedicated bag as many do with ilc.

There are alot of people with to much money however. So I'm sure they will sell.
09-17-2021, 04:32 AM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Yes, it has to do with economies of scale. There will be far less demand so they'll need higher margins to make the product worth it. It's a very specialized product and it'll be worth every penny to those people.

(...)
I agree with a hypothetical GR IIIm being priced a bit higher than the regular GR III, because of (i) higher sensor costs due to lower volumes (still under $100 though), (ii) the incremental costs associated with a specific SKU and (iii) Ricoh Imaging seeking higher unit margins from this niche, low-volume product.

However, all the above doesn't justify a doubled price. $100 or $200 more, why not. Twice the price, definitely not.

QuoteOriginally posted by lemono Quote
Yep, This specially customized sensor itself is more expensive than the common version, coupled with the low sales expectation of the marketing department.
The RRP of the standard Leica Q2 is $4,995. That of the Leica Q2 Monochrom is $5,995. That's 20% more (which is a lot but we are in Leica land), not 'close to twice the price'.

(Another example: the Leica M10-R and M10 Monochrom share the same RRP: $8,295. However, both being low-volume items, one might consider the economies of scale from sensor purchase and SKU management are minimal.)

The RRP of the standard GR III is $/€899. Can you seriously imagine Ricoh asking $/€1,799 for a hypothetical GR IIIm? or even $/€1,699 or 1,599 for that matter?
09-17-2021, 06:54 AM   #312
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I imagine the software has to be rather dramatically changed. Ripping out all things colour related is probably quite a bit of work. All to be recouped within a small sales volume.
09-17-2021, 07:03 AM   #313
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the preview build-in monitor?
to get the best possibly quality of the reproduction , they wouldn't be able to use existing colour one?
09-17-2021, 07:18 AM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The RRP of the standard Leica Q2 is $4,995. That of the Leica Q2 Monochrom is $5,995. That's 20% more (which is a lot but we are in Leica land), not 'close to twice the price'.
Another way of reading that is it's +$1,000. I think Leica's eventual purchase price is quite removed from what it actually costs to make. You pay the $3,000 Leica tax and then the actual cost of the camera starts from there.

I think house is right. Surely it would require a completely different image processing to be developed. Would the accelerator need to be redesigned? Would the whole camera need to be redesigned without the accelerator?

Ultimately, they must have reason to believe there are people who will pay more for it, or it wouldn't be with the endeavour.. Since a lot of GR users do all their photography in black and white, if any camera justifies a monochrome version, it's the GR.

I know that this is something the GR development team has wanted to do for over ten years. I think it was around the time of the GR Digital III that I read an article where they were saying they wanted to make a monochrome edition.
09-17-2021, 07:55 AM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
I imagine the software has to be rather dramatically changed. Ripping out all things colour related is probably quite a bit of work. All to be recouped within a small sales volume.
Wouldn't it be a simplified pipeline since there is no demosaicing involved anymore? You literally read the numeric value and that's correlated to a grayscale. No need for white balance, no need for pixel averaging to get colour data, no nothing.


If the camera can do a B/W conversion to convert the colour-corrected values to a luminance value, you can skip straight to the point with a monochrome sensor.
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