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10-21-2021, 06:15 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote
Tamron and Sigma made 12–20 or 10–20 zooms with variable apertures for APS-C DSLRs for years, priced around the $400 mark. If Sigma can pay Japanese wages and sell a 10–20mm ƒ/4-5.6 AF lens for $400, then Pentax can pay Vietnamese wages and sell a wide-angle prime for an affordable price. 16mm, 15mm, 14mm—somewhere there is a reasonable balance to be struck. It doesn't need to be ƒ/2, 49mm ø, or distortion-free.

I now—finally, at age 42—have the income and passion to afford Limited lenses and even (used) ★ lenses. But the system needs to have affordable gear to take in a sustainable number of newbies, too. Tamron and Tokina don't do K-mount anymore. Sigma, Laowa, Rokinon, and Irix offer only a handful of lenses for Pentax. Ricoh can't count on third-parties to support photographers on a budget. Pentax has to offer its own budget options.

I got into Pentax because, back then, no other system offered an affordable, modern fisheye lens (The Tokina version of the 10–17 did eventually make it to Nikon and Canon.) I'm still here 12 years later, spending money on Pentax gear. I worry about the 24-year-old realtor who buys a Nikon camera because she can afford the $320 Nikkor DX 10–20mm ƒ4-5.6 with VR. Is she really going to switch over to Pentax once she gets established in her field and can swing the $1300 DA★ 11–18?
Up until very recently Ricoh sold the SMC DA12-24mm f4 ED IF for a good price. You can still buy a new one.

10-21-2021, 07:15 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Up until very recently Ricoh sold the SMC DA12-24mm f4 ED IF for a good price. You can still buy a new one.
Check my signature: I already own the 12–24 and both versions of the 15mm Limited. I'm all set for wide lenses. My worry is the next generation of Pentax users will have no options but the premium and pro offerings for landscape.

(Pentax has never offered budget wide-angle lenses other than the 10-17 Fish-Eye, but when I was getting started we had low-cost wides from Sigma and Tokina.)
10-21-2021, 09:10 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote
Check my signature: I already own the 12–24 and both versions of the 15mm Limited. I'm all set for wide lenses. My worry is the next generation of Pentax users will have no options but the premium and pro offerings for landscape.

(Pentax has never offered budget wide-angle lenses other than the 10-17 Fish-Eye, but when I was getting started we had low-cost wides from Sigma and Tokina.)
I guess they can buy one used?
10-21-2021, 10:26 PM   #79
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I agree, there never really was any budget 85/135mm or budget 24-28mm AF lenses.

Back then there were f/3.5 and f/2.8 but this is of course a long time ago.

10-22-2021, 04:30 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote
(...)

I can remember back when Pentax was designing the 10–17 and the 12–24, and Tokina licensed those ultra-wide designs to make 3rd party lenses for Canon and Nikon. (...)
If the 10-17mm fisheye was indeed designed by Pentax and its optical design licensed by Tokina, the 12-24mm f/4 was designed by Tokina and its optical design licensed by Pentax.

In 2013 Tokina launched a 12-28mm f/4 to replace their ageing 12-24mm f/4 but this one hasn't been licensed by Ricoh.
10-22-2021, 04:50 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I agree, there never really was any budget 85/135mm or budget 24-28mm AF lenses.

Back then there were f/3.5 and f/2.8 but this is of course a long time ago.
There are currently several budget 24mm autofocus lenses available from third parties :
  • Samyang AF 24mm f/1.8 FE
  • Sigma 24mm f/2 DG DN | Contemporary
  • Sigma 24mm f/3.5 DG DN | Contemporary
  • Tamron 24mm f/2.8 Di III OSD M1:2
  • Viltrox AF 24mm f/1.8

and several (budget) short telephoto lenses too:
  • Samyang AF 75mm f/1.8 FE
  • Sigma 90mm f/2.8 DG DN | Contemporary
  • Tokina atx-m 85mm f/1.8
  • Viltrox AF 85mm f/1.8
  • Yongnuo YN 85mm f/1.8 (two different designs, one for SLRs and one for mirrorless cameras)

but those are only available in mirrorless mounts (save for the Tamron and the Yongnuo) and none in Pentax K mount.
10-22-2021, 06:04 AM   #82
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Sure. I was thinking Pentax though.

10-22-2021, 04:52 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote

(Pentax has never offered budget wide-angle lenses other than the 10-17 Fish-Eye, but when I was getting started we had low-cost wides from Sigma and Tokina.)
Oh, I never thought the F17-28 as terribly expensive. Was it?
10-22-2021, 05:25 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nakedgun Quote
Oh, I never thought the F17-28 as terribly expensive. Was it?
Dunno, but for APS-C I think we should start the bidding for "super wide-angle" at 16mm, preferably 15mm. The kit lens is 18–55 or 18–50, so I'm not sure 17mm would be enough of a difference. 17–28 sounds more like a FF lens.
10-22-2021, 05:50 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote
Dunno, but for APS-C I think we should start the bidding for "super wide-angle" at 16mm, preferably 15mm. The kit lens is 18–55 or 18–50, so I'm not sure 17mm would be enough of a difference. 17–28 sounds more like a FF lens.
There is already the DA16-85 and DA*16-50, and I think 16 is about the threshold... (and last year's 16-50 is selling very inexpensively used)...
The problem here is a very nice 15mm Limited it would be competing with, and a 14mm f2.8 that seems to be a slow seller (and not small). There's also a Rokinon/Samyang 14mm...

They could go even wider, with a 13mm or something, but every millimeter wider makes it that much harder to be inexpensive without being rubbish...

I wonder if they could do something like a 13mm f5.6 and have it be inexpensive and decent... or go all in with a 12mm f8, like the (very) old 17mm f11 fisheye... especially if it were a pancake...
The trick would be making the lenses decent by today's standards.
HD DA 12mm f8 XS WR... I can't say that rolls off the tongue, though....

-Eric
10-22-2021, 08:03 PM - 1 Like   #86
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I think the most gaping holes in the line-up of currently-available lenses are mostly zooms.
- Variable aperture wide-angle zoom for APS-C (all that is currently available in K-mount is the 10-17 FE and the 11-18*)
- An f4 standard zoom for full frame
- A variable aperture tele-zoom for full frame (roadmapped)
- Something like a 100-400 zoom with very fast autofocus for sports/wildlife people
- A variable aperture wide-angle zoom for full frame

What I'm hoping is that Pentax is changing their attitude to how they use the roadmap. Instead of putting things they have not even started developing and leaving us waiting for 5+ years, they should have one or two lenses, which they are confident they can deliver in the next 12-18 months. That would go a long way towards restoring credibility in the roadmap.
10-24-2021, 12:58 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I think the most gaping holes in the line-up of currently-available lenses are mostly zooms.
- Variable aperture wide-angle zoom for APS-C (all that is currently available in K-mount is the 10-17 FE and the 11-18*)
I think Supertele Lenses are the biggest gap. 300mm f4 is way to (s)low.
- The DA 12-24mm is still in stock new:
QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Up until very recently Ricoh sold the SMC DA12-24mm f4 ED IF for a good price. You can still buy a new one.


QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote
Honestly, unless the DA 560 was drawing bad reviews and negative attention to the brand (it wasn't), Ricoh was crazy to discontinue it. Even if only 200 people bought them each year, having that long lens at the top of the list was a nice statement about the brand. 500mm, tilt-shift, and fisheye offerings aren't about their direct impacts to the bottom line; they are about a cohesive statement that all types of photographers have a home in a particular system.
QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
For the good of the brand and the Pentax community, and because Pentax will soon be the only DSLR maker, Ricoh needs to fill some gaps in the lens lineup. Those gaps include more than the two proposed lenses on the roadmap, and off the top of my head I can think of a tilt-shift wide-angle and a long FL lens (probably a 600mm fixed FL, so as not to overlap with the 150-450), but I’m sure there are others.
I can support these views.
A new D FA(*) 400mm f4 with faster AF and shorter minumum focus distance would be awesome.
10-24-2021, 04:46 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by angerdan Quote
I think Supertele Lenses are the biggest gap. 300mm f4 is way to (s)low.
- The DA 12-24mm is still in stock new:

I can support these views.
A new D FA(*) 400mm f4 with faster AF and shorter minumum focus distance would be awesome.
The link you posted goes to the PH-RBI77, the lens hood for the DA 12–24mm. The lens hood is still in stock at B&H and Adorama. The lens is not at B&H or Adorama at all. Amazon has a few used US models and one new "grey-market" from Japan for $750.

But, again, remember my point with mentioning the wide-angles isn't about whether they exist at all, but whether an affordable wide-angle would help the lineup. I know the DA★ 11–18 exists. I really do. I've seen video reviews. I read the Pentax Forums review. I know that Ricoh/Pentax offers a professional ultra-wide angle zoom lens.
10-25-2021, 03:41 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by PocketPixels Quote
The link you posted goes to the PH-RBI77, the lens hood for the DA 12–24mm.
I didn't post it, the forum software did auto format it.
But you're right, it's not available new anymore from B&H or adorama.
10-26-2021, 08:54 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nakedgun Quote
Oh, I never thought the F17-28 as terribly expensive. Was it?
Not, expensive afaik, but that's a pretty good all-round wide and compact zoom !
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