[Paul the Sunman]

It's a bit sad there's nothing else new on the horizon. Even just an updated version of the FA 50mm in the same way as the FA 35mm, change coatings to HD and update the cosmetics, would be a very simple but welcome change.

Those updated FA lenses were never "on the horizon". They just appeared, fully armed, like Athena from the head of Zeus.

[RobA_Oz]

It's a bit sad there's nothing else new on the horizon. Even just an updated version of the FA 50mm in the same way as the FA 35mm, change coatings to HD and update the cosmetics, would be a very simple but welcome change.

While I agree with those who've replied already, that refreshed lenses don't appear on the roadmap, I also agree that we're left wondering what else the optical designers might be working on, and that will make some people cautious or even a bit nervous.

Some of the DSLR detractors on "review" websites and social media will, of course, take this as a sign that Ricoh is no longer interested in the camera business, or is simply dampening expectations as a precautionary measure, in case things continue to slide beyond redemption. Their opinions are, naturally, coloured by their sponsors' interests, and some of them have probably talked themselves into the positions they hold (the first tenet of good sales philosophy is to sell the product to yourself, after all).

However, put yourselves in the position of Ricoh's decision-makers, and think about who constitutes the market for their K-mount products. By and large, but with a few notable exceptions, they aren't professional photographers but mostly a mixed bag of enthusiasts with a variety of disposable incomes and levels of dedication to the photographic arts. So, how many new bodies and lenses every year can this market stand? I can't answer that question, because I don't know what their internal cost structures are, or what their corporate investment return rates are.

From this user's viewpoint, I've been on average buying one new Pentax lens per annum, and a new body every four to five years. It would be interesting to know what others' purchasing rates have been, to give a broader view, because I can only speak for myself.

[Paul the Sunman]

From this user's viewpoint, I've been on average buying one new Pentax lens per annum, and a new body every four to five years. It would be interesting to know what others' purchasing rates have been, to give a broader view, because I can only speak for myself.

Similar. I bought the K5 but skipped the K5ii; bought the K3 but skipped the K3ii; bought the K1 but skipped the K1ii; bought the K3iii ... I haven't bought a lens since the DFA* 50 f/1.4 in January 2019, though a few have tempted. The DFA 21 Limited will be the next.

[reh321]

Similar. I bought the K5 but skipped the K5ii; bought the K3 but skipped the K3ii; bought the K1 but skipped the K1ii; bought the K3iii ... I haven't bought a lens since the DFA* 50 f/1.4 in January 2019, though a few have tempted. The DFA 21 Limited will be the next.

I’m not sure how you count “skipped” bodies.

I purchased a {used} K-30 in summer 2015, then a new KP in autumn 2018. If the K-70ii/90 has the K-3iii ‘eye focusing’ for $1K I will purchase it.
The K-30 came with a 18-55mm, so I purchaed a 18-135mm almost immediately, then a 20-40mm Ltd after I had the KP. I purchased a 55-300mm shortly after the K-30, then the PLM variant when I purchased the KP. I don’t think my existence would of much use to the Ricoh executives.

[gatorguy]

Similar. I bought the K5 but skipped the K5ii; bought the K3 but skipped the K3ii; bought the K1 but skipped the K1ii; bought the K3iii ... I haven't bought a lens since the DFA* 50 f/1.4 in January 2019, though a few have tempted. The DFA 21 Limited will be the next.

I had been content with circa-2016 K-70's and a K1 until this year when I picked up a K3III. But I have bought several of the new release Pentax lenses though, DFA50, DFA85, 50-300PLM, DFA70-200 and the new 16-50PLM, for those older cameras. Pentax got a good chunk of my money, but it was well spent IMHO. I've had no buyers remorse with any of the recent Pentax glass.

[PocketPixels]

From this user's viewpoint, I've been on average buying one new Pentax lens per annum, and a new body every four to five years. It would be interesting to know what others' purchasing rates have been, to give a broader view, because I can only speak for myself.

(might be better as its own thread, though?)

I started in 2009 with a used K100D-Super and kit DA 18–55 (mark 1). My first upgrade was a new DA 10–17 Fish-Eye, still my favorite lens of all time and the reason I went with Pentax over Nikon. I bought a used A 50mm ƒ/2 for low-light work, but it had dreadful front-focusing on my K100D-s, so I upgraded to a used FA 50mm ƒ/1.4. I think that covers my first three years with the camera. I had no money for new lenses (no money for much of anything) for a while. Eventually, maybe 2016, I bought a used DA 70mm Limited for low-light work at comedy clubs and poetry shows.

That setup: used K100D-s, used kit zoom, new fisheye, used fast 50, used 70 Limited, covered my first eight or nine years of DSLR photography. It was all I needed, and I was content—although I would sometimes wish for a wider non-fisheye option. Every piece of my Pentax system fit in a shoulder bag. Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh wasn't seeing much money from me other than that fisheye zoom.

Everything changed when I got a much better job in 2018. At this point, it's a little silly. Mostly still used stuff, although my K-S2 was a factory refurb direct from Ricoh in 2019, so I have paid the company some money over the years.

[TwoUptons]

Well, Ricoh has a stack of those “refresh every 4-5 years” people who need a refreshed full frame entrant…
Maybe the same on the K70/KP end of things, too, depending on what they consider “entry-level”…
And they’ll need to update or discontinue the 645 at some point…
So lots potentially happening with bodies in the middle of a chip shortage…
Frankly, I’d be surprised if there was anything substantial added to the roadmap before some of the pandemic uncertainties in the supply chain get reconciled,
Even then, there are opportunities for release of “off the map” lenses.
A refreshed HD D FA 50mm f1.4 to replace today’s FA was mentioned elsewhere
Additional “plastic fantastic” DAs or FAs would be fun.
Even something unexpected… D FA 135mm f3.2 XS or something equally weird and inexpensive…
I’m not terribly worried about it.

-Eric

[PocketPixels]

Right. As I recall, the HD refresh of the Fish-Eye in 2018 came without notice to the roadmap. An HD refresh of the FA 50 ƒ/1.4 could happen. Or the DA★ 200mm. Even the DA 35mm ƒ/2.4 is old enough by now to merit an HD makeover. Personally, I'd love to see an HD DA 12–24 ƒ/4, because not everybody can splash out for a $1200 HD DA★ 11–18. I hope Pentax isn't moving too upscale for students and middle-income photographers.

I'll ask the dumb question: does the chip shortage affect lens production? Do the fancy lenses have any chips in them at all?

Well, Ricoh has a stack of those “refresh every 4-5 years” people who need a refreshed full frame entrant…
Maybe the same on the K70/KP end of things, too, depending on what they consider “entry-level”…
And they’ll need to update or discontinue the 645 at some point…
So lots potentially happening with bodies in the middle of a chip shortage…
Frankly, I’d be surprised if there was anything substantial added to the roadmap before some of the pandemic uncertainties in the supply chain get reconciled,
Even then, there are opportunities for release of “off the map” lenses.
A refreshed HD D FA 50mm f1.4 to replace today’s FA was mentioned elsewhere
Additional “plastic fantastic” DAs or FAs would be fun.
Even something unexpected… D FA 135mm f3.2 XS or something equally weird and inexpensive…
I’m not terribly worried about it.

-Eric

[RobA_Oz]

I should say that my “new body every 4-5 years” habit has been driven by:

1. curiosity and the disposable income to satisfy it;
2. a new offering that added something I thought worthwhile; and
3. enough children and grandchildren to pass the old bodies onto, should I have to chose between buying another gear cabinet and passing on my habits to my descendants.

Age and the recent pandemic haven’t managed to lessen either part of (a), while Ricoh’s rate of churning out new-featured gear (b) hasn’t impacted adversely on my yearly disposable income or my wife’s tolerance for my spending habits. Nonetheless, (c) is getting to the problematic stage, which may mean having to buy a new cabinet as I run out of willing recipients of four-year-old camera technology.

Buying a new lens every year (and I mean “new” as in “no previous owner”, not just “new to me”) probably wouldn’t happen without this forum and the detailed lens reviews posted by people whose views I trust. I trust them because of experience (mine as well as theirs) and because there’s no commercial incentive (that I know of, anyway) involved with their views. Anyway, good glass lasts.

That said, I’m up for the DFA21 at the right time, but I do wonder what else might be appearing next year.

For the good of the brand and the Pentax community, and because Pentax will soon be the only DSLR maker, Ricoh needs to fill some gaps in the lens lineup. Those gaps include more than the two proposed lenses on the roadmap, and off the top of my head I can think of a tilt-shift wide-angle and a long FL lens (probably a 600mm fixed FL, so as not to overlap with the 150-450), but I’m sure there are others.

I hope Pentax isn't moving too upscale for students and middle-income photographers.

There’s still quite enough moderately-priced gear in the APS-C range to satisfy that demand. Bodies might be the problem there, though.

[Mistral75]

(...)

I'll ask the dumb question: does the chip shortage affect lens production? Do the fancy lenses have any chips in them at all?

Modern lenses have at least EEPROMs.

[reh321]

Well, Ricoh has a stack of those “refresh every 4-5 years” people who need a refreshed full frame entrant…
Maybe the same on the K70/KP end of things, too, depending on what they consider “entry-level”…
And they’ll need to update or discontinue the 645 at some point…
So lots potentially happening with bodies in the middle of a chip shortage…
Frankly, I’d be surprised if there was anything substantial added to the roadmap before some of the pandemic uncertainties in the supply chain get reconciled,
Even then, there are opportunities for release of “off the map” lenses.
A refreshed HD D FA 50mm f1.4 to replace today’s FA was mentioned elsewhere
Additional “plastic fantastic” DAs or FAs would be fun.

I believe they should release at least one ‘reasonably priced’ KAF4 ‘standard’ lens, perhaps a “plastic fantastic” DA - then they could put aperture issues with the low tier “APS-C” camera behind them without making any further changes to the body.

[PocketPixels]

Something like a DA 14mm ƒ/4 would help out landscape photographers and real-estate people on a budget who can't afford a 15mm Limited or the DA★ 11–18. Right now, the only options for "wide-angle for less" involve buying a Rokinon lens or adding a Raynox .66 converter to the kit lens. Ricoh gets no money from either of those options.

Also, and this won't make me popular, but if we had a 14mm ƒ/4 lens on a body that offered composition adjustment (KP, K-3 iii), wouldn't that take care of 90% of the use cases for a shift lens? (Yes, I am ignoring the "tilt" part of your request.)

Honestly, unless the DA 560 was drawing bad reviews and negative attention to the brand (it wasn't), Ricoh was crazy to discontinue it. Even if only 200 people bought them each year, having that long lens at the top of the list was a nice statement about the brand. 500mm, tilt-shift, and fisheye offerings aren't about their direct impacts to the bottom line; they are about a cohesive statement that all types of photographers have a home in a particular system.

I should say that my “new body every 4-5 years” habit has been driven by:

1. curiosity and the disposable income to satisfy it;
2. a new offering that added something I thought worthwhile; and
3. enough children and grandchildren to pass the old bodies onto, should I have to chose between buying another gear cabinet and passing on my habits to my descendants.

Age and the recent pandemic haven’t managed to lessen either part of (a), while Ricoh’s rate of churning out new-featured gear (b) hasn’t impacted adversely on my yearly disposable income or my wife’s tolerance for my spending habits. Nonetheless, (c) is getting to the problematic stage, which may mean having to buy a new cabinet as I run out of willing recipients of four-year-old camera technology.

Buying a new lens every year (and I mean “new” as in “no previous owner”, not just “new to me”) probably wouldn’t happen without this forum and the detailed lens reviews posted by people whose views I trust. I trust them because of experience (mine as well as theirs) and because there’s no commercial incentive (that I know of, anyway) involved with their views. Anyway, good glass lasts.

That said, I’m up for the DFA21 at the right time, but I do wonder what else might be appearing next year.

For the good of the brand and the Pentax community, and because Pentax will soon be the only DSLR maker, Ricoh needs to fill some gaps in the lens lineup. Those gaps include more than the two proposed lenses on the roadmap, and off the top of my head I can think of a tilt-shift wide-angle and a long FL lens (probably a 600mm fixed FL, so as not to overlap with the 150-450), but I’m sure there are others.



There’s still quite enough moderately-priced gear in the APS-C range to satisfy that demand. Bodies might be the problem there, though.

[RobA_Oz]

Something like a DA 14mm ƒ/4 would help out landscape photographers and real-estate people on a budget who can't afford a 15mm Limited or the DA★ 11–18. Right now, the only options for "wide-angle for less" involve buying a Rokinon lens or adding a Raynox .66 converter to the kit lens. Ricoh gets no money from either of those options.

Also, and this won't make me popular, but if we had a 14mm ƒ/4 lens on a body that offered composition adjustment (KP, K-3 iii), wouldn't that take care of 90% of the use cases for a shift lens? (Yes, I am ignoring the "shift" part of your request.)

Honestly, unless the DA 560 was drawing bad reviews and negative attention to the brand (it wasn't), Ricoh was crazy to discontinue it. Even if only 200 people bought them each year, having that long lens at the top of the list was a nice statement about the brand. 500mm, tilt-shift, and fisheye offerings aren't about their direct impacts to the bottom line; they are about a cohesive statement that all types of photographers have a home in a particular system.

Interesting points. The DA14/2.8, as far as I can tell, was nowhere as popular as the DA15/4 Limited, so I imagine the only reason it’s still on the shelves is that they're waiting to clear stocks. A smaller aperture replacement might work, although it also might be thought to be too close to the DA15. Dropping back to a 13mm FL would add an equivalent FoV to the FF35 20mm, which should be useful.

Also, composition adjustment is handy, but won’t get you as much as a true shift lens (and you were ignoring the “tilt” part of my suggestion).

[PocketPixels]

Interesting points. The DA14/2.8, as far as I can tell, was nowhere as popular as the DA15/4 Limited, so I imagine the only reason it’s still on the shelves is that they're waiting to clear stocks. A smaller aperture replacement might work, although it also might be thought to be too close to the DA15. Dropping back to a 13mm FL would add an equivalent FoV to the FF35 20mm, which should be useful.

Also, composition adjustment is handy, but won’t get you as much as a true shift lens (and you were ignoring the “tilt” part of my suggestion).

Ooops. I totally blew that joke by mixing up "tilt" and "shift." But you got it anyway.

I'm very glad and grateful to now be earning enough to own a (used) DA 15mm Limited and a (used) DA 12–24mm. But I'm sure there are young (or at least younger) photographers who are several years away from having $500+ US for a premium wide-angle lens. A slow aperture prime in the 12–15 range would really help. And there can be "plastic fantastic" primes that coexist with premium and pro lenses:

• DA 35mm ƒ/2.4 is $175US, DA 35mm Limited Macro is $450US
• DA 50mm ƒ/1.8 is $130US, DA★ 55mm ƒ/1.4 is $650US

I'll bet Ricoh/Pentax could make a DA 14mm ƒ/4 in plastic, filter size 58mm or so, and at $200 nobody would see it as a rival to the 15mm Limited.

[Serkevan]

I'll bet Ricoh/Pentax could make a DA 14mm ƒ/4 in plastic, filter size 58mm or so, and at $200 nobody would see it as a rival to the 15mm Limited.

Thet probaby *could*, but wide angles for DSLRs are complicated - it would either have to be optically terrible or it wouldn't be particularly cheaper than the DA 15, methinks.