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10-30-2021, 02:36 PM - 2 Likes   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
N
It is up to Ricoh to devise a strategy that enables them to get a slice of that pie.
Whether that be a retro styled camera or an aliance with Panasonic who knows?
But I am sure naysayers won't be on the bus.
They have devised a strategy clearly stated so that it cannot be misunderstood, and it has nothing to do with a slice of that pie.That's why this discussion is pointless...

10-30-2021, 02:37 PM - 2 Likes   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Ricoh is most definitely taking Pentax in a drastically different direction. They are being moved from a cheap and cheerful brand (that failed in the marketplace) to a premium niche brand.
I agree. Sorry, I wasn't clear with my language -- I think they've already moved in this direction, as evidenced by their recent top-shelf lenses and the K-3 Mark III. I don't see any evidence that suggests they'll steer away from this new approach. They have also been crystal clear in their view on SLR photography.

- Craig
10-30-2021, 02:38 PM - 1 Like   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
My advice to the people who don't agree with the direction Ricoh is taking the brand is to go elsewhere, and to those who think they know better than Ricoh, start your own camera company. It should be easy for the people who have all the answers in place already..
This is very good advice
10-30-2021, 02:40 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Not sure what you mean here?
5%
Sounds like plenty of opportunity to me
not barriers but maybe that is my weird thinking.

What Pentax need right now is a CEO with a vision of a prosperous future for the camera division. The obvious opportunity is in FF mirrorless.

It is up to Ricoh to devise a strategy that enables them to get a slice of that pie.
Whether that be a retro styled camera or an aliance with Panasonic who knows?
But I am sure naysayers won't be on the bus.
I don't think it makes any practical sense as the FF MILC market is already heavily crowded. Panasonic has a minute market share and it's, mostly, because of video. I certainly wouldn't follow Pentax into that market.

10-30-2021, 05:01 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
And why would they want to?
Maybe their projections for DSLR sales are not enough to sustain the business?
10-30-2021, 05:02 PM - 2 Likes   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Maybe their projections for DSLR sales are not enough to sustain the business?
Maybe their projections for MILC are not enough to sustain business ?
Do you even considered you could be flat wrong?
10-30-2021, 05:59 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Maybe their projections for MILC are not enough to sustain business ?
Do you even considered you could be flat wrong?
Flat wrong about what?

10-30-2021, 07:44 PM - 4 Likes   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Maybe their projections for DSLR sales are not enough to sustain the business?
Maybe their projections for an ROI on a complete MILC system is not enough sales to sustain their business.
Right now Ricoh is selling out everything they make. The D FA*50/1.4 pre sold the first two production runs. My understanding is that the new 85/1.4 did much the same thing, and I read here a day or two ago from a poster who actually knows what he is talking about that the black FA 21/2.4 LTD has pre sold its first run as well.

The problem isn't with Ricohs sales volume, the problem is with people who have an opinion that the only way to stay in business is to dominate the market.
It's a very wrong headed business plan that many companies have tried and failed at.

---------- Post added Oct 30th, 2021 at 08:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Flat wrong about what?
In this case, the subject at hand that you think you know something about.
10-30-2021, 08:21 PM - 1 Like   #114
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Given that Ricoh have stated that they are looking for partners to bring the GR and Pentax brand forward then there must be some problems?
Indicates to me some concerns regarding their current business model.
I think that is a reasonable assumption.

I look forward to the future with excitement not fear.
10-30-2021, 08:26 PM - 2 Likes   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
Given that the outgoing CEO stated recently that Pentax will never go mirrorless, I think your assertion is entirely plausible.
I would think a collaboration with Panasonic could work.
It was a mistake for the outgoing CEO to say that there will never be a Pentax mirrorless. That's unrealistic. You never say never in this business. If Pentax could find a way to use the K-mount with a mirrorless camera, that could be a huge boost.
10-30-2021, 08:30 PM - 2 Likes   #116
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A friendly reminder to posters in this thread to keep it friendly. Debate is fine, but some debate here may be a bit on the personal side.
10-30-2021, 09:11 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Maybe their projections for an ROI on a complete MILC system is not enough sales to sustain their business.
Right now Ricoh is selling out everything they make. The D FA*50/1.4 pre sold the first two production runs. My understanding is that the new 85/1.4 did much the same thing, and I read here a day or two ago from a poster who actually knows what he is talking about that the black FA 21/2.4 LTD has pre sold its first run as well.

The problem isn't with Ricohs sales volume, the problem is with people who have an opinion that the only way to stay in business is to dominate the market.
It's a very wrong headed business plan that many companies have tried and failed at.

---------- Post added Oct 30th, 2021 at 08:45 PM ----------



In this case, the subject at hand that you think you know something about.
It would be a mistake to cost in a complete MILC system. The whole point of an L mount aliance is that you don't need a complete system to enter.

They could make money by designing lenses and marketing them in whatever niche they choose.

BTW do you know who was the forum member to first predict the new HD DFA21mm Limited long before it was announced?

Last edited by MarkJerling; 10-30-2021 at 11:12 PM. Reason: Having just asked everyone to be friendly....
10-30-2021, 09:43 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Pentax would be competing with themselves for sales. Pirating sales from yourself is not a smart way to do things. It guarantees you make less profit.
That's not the way I see it. If Ricoh offered DSLR and their mirrorless version reusing the same guts, but with variation in firmware, they'd sell DSLR to people who prefer OVF and they sell mirrorless (with same UI) to people who prefer having an EVF who would otherwise leave Pentax. Since both Pentax DSLR and Pentax MILC would take K mount lenses, customers wanting a MILC would have a huge incentive to buy the Pentax MILC instead of going e.g Sony. Since a Pentax MILC would use K mount lenses, Ricoh wouldn't be limited by their capacility to make new lenses, and MILC sales could take advantage of the large user base of K mount lenses. When Ricoh doesn't offer other than DSLR alternative, customers are leaving to Sony, Nikon, Canon. If Ricoh would offer both DSLR and MILC for K mount lenses, they would address 100% of their user base, and making MILC cameras wouldn't be costly because it would be "design by removal" approach , take a working DSLR, remove the mirror box to make it light weight, lock the firmware to live view only, done.
10-30-2021, 10:45 PM - 5 Likes   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by LXNights Quote
It was a mistake for the outgoing CEO to say that there will never be a Pentax mirrorless. That's unrealistic. You never say never in this business. If Pentax could find a way to use the K-mount with a mirrorless camera, that could be a huge boost.
I think it's worth taking stock of what Pentax actually said in their statement last year and what they did not. The page is here.
PENTAX PRINCIPLES | brand | RICOH IMAGING

Their main sentence was: "Pentax believes in the future of SLR photography"

- They didn't say "Ricoh Imaging believes . . ." clearly Ricoh Imaging as a whole has products that are not SLRs.
- They didn't say "Pentax believes SLRs are the future of photography", although some sites and commenters reported it as if that is what they said.
- They didn't say "Pentax will not make mirrorless cameras in the future", although again plenty of people have exaggerated the message to claim that is what they said.

All they really said was that SLR cameras are pleasurable to use, and espoused some other values about photography that most people can identify with. This makes complete sense, because at the time Pentax was getting working up to the release of a new SLR camera. It doesn't mean that can't or won't make a mirrorless camera in future under the Ricoh or even the Pentax brand at some point in the future. I don't think this is imminent, but you can be sure that Ricoh won't be talking up mirrorless until they have one to sell you.
10-31-2021, 12:17 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's not the way I see it. If Ricoh offered DSLR and their mirrorless version reusing the same guts, but with variation in firmware, they'd sell DSLR to people who prefer OVF and they sell mirrorless (with same UI) to people who prefer having an EVF who would otherwise leave Pentax. Since both Pentax DSLR and Pentax MILC would take K mount lenses, customers wanting a MILC would have a huge incentive to buy the Pentax MILC instead of going e.g Sony. Since a Pentax MILC would use K mount lenses, Ricoh wouldn't be limited by their capacility to make new lenses, and MILC sales could take advantage of the large user base of K mount lenses. When Ricoh doesn't offer other than DSLR alternative, customers are leaving to Sony, Nikon, Canon. If Ricoh would offer both DSLR and MILC for K mount lenses, they would address 100% of their user base, and making MILC cameras wouldn't be costly because it would be "design by removal" approach , take a working DSLR, remove the mirror box to make it light weight, lock the firmware to live view only, done.
Do you know if it would be technically possible to make an adapter so that K mount AF lenses would work perfectly on an L mount? If that was the case, Pentax could hypothetically make an L mount mirrorless and said adapter and keep us all happy it would also mean the body could be nice and slim
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