2021 Outdoor Photographer Editors' Picks

VictorDA · 11-26-2021, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

there is no particular reason that they won't continue to make SLRs

I can think of an obvious one: Pentax is Doomed, didn't you know?

**Rondec** · 11-26-2021, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by victordeamorin

I can think of an obvious one: Pentax is Doomed, didn't you know?

I know you are joking, but I do think the next five years are going to be really difficult for all camera brands, not just Pentax. Canon and Sony are having a war. Nikon is doing their best to become relevant. Fuji is saying, "Why go full frame when you can go medium format?"

For all of the talk about how cheap MILCs are to make, there is a lot of tech that goes into them and that requires R and D. All of the new lenses have taken a lot of money to get out there. Playing it conservative and working within your strengths is probably the way to go -- at least if you don't have 100 million dollars to burn.

**jersey** · 11-26-2021, 05:04 AM

Well, next years will be crucial. Even Leica almost died and now market for ILS is not even shringing or burning, it is right down the black hole, far past event horizon (sorry, I am scifi geek

). Leica found its niche and someone who was willing to pay for it nesting herself in that niche. Will Ricoh fund Pentax niche? It seem so with the Pentax rebuild team that is rumored about.

Interesting times, in a Chinese way I think. Anyway, Pentax getting recognition is a good thing. Especially if it is going with the "last DSLR brand" label as it may actually help a lot.

Kunzite · 11-26-2021, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think the point is that Pentax is aiming for is gradually moving upscale (nearly all cameras other than smart phones are). Build high quality, tightly made products with good ergonomics and pay influencers to rave about how they've been blown away by the connection they felt with their Pentax camera that they never did with their Sony.

I'm not saying this is going to happen, but there is no particular reason that they won't continue to make SLRs and people from other brands who don't like EVFs will head in their direction.

Yes, Pentax has a chance of doing exactly that. A good chance, IMO.
And yes, they'd need to do some smart marketing. Because others are doing counter-marketing, including various sites with their dinosaurs allusions.

I don't see anyone else attempting the same. But Pentax, they're doing it.

Kunzite · 11-26-2021, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

For all of the talk about how cheap MILCs are to make, there is a lot of tech that goes into them and that requires R and D. All of the new lenses have taken a lot of money to get out there. Playing it conservative and working within your strengths is probably the way to go -- at least if you don't have 100 million dollars to burn.

It's all relative - MILCs are cheaper than DSLRs.
But the MILC makers are - as you say - having a war; and they're fighting with a brute force approach, trying to win through performance and flooding the market with countless models.

house · 11-26-2021, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Yes, Pentax has a chance of doing exactly that. A good chance, IMO.
And yes, they'd need to do some smart marketing. Because others are doing counter-marketing, including various sites with their dinosaurs allusions.

I don't see anyone else attempting the same. But Pentax, they're doing it.

Isn't that Fuji's approach as well? Not having ttl optical viewfinders does take away a huge chunk of the experience though. But design and ui wise they are trying.

**Mikesul** · 11-30-2021, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by pts1958

Il était important qu'ils parlent de Pentax !

It is important for them to talk about Pentax!

Kunzite · 11-30-2021, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Mikesul

It is important for them to talk about Pentax!

Not sure about that - I'd say, "It's important that they talk about Pentax!".

**Mikesul** · 11-30-2021, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Not sure about that - I'd say, "It's important that they talk about Pentax!".

Well put!

Zygonyx · 11-30-2021, 11:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

I guess OVF vs EVF is a battle that cannot be won in the long term, as the latter continually improves and the size advantages are obvious.

Size doesn't always matter...

Realism, accuracy and "light neutrality" appearance of analogic SLR vision through a viewfinder cannot be replaced by EVFs.

If you are an intensive shooter and a though finder-viewer, SLR's prism is definitely less harmfull for your vision.

Also, as wildphotographers are concerned, the advantage of a "powerless" vision making thus indefinite observation through the OVF possible, has "no price" in comparison to power-assisted, thus power-depleting EVFs.

vijaykishan · 12-01-2021, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Size doesn't always matter...

Realism, accuracy and "light neutrality" appearance of analogic SLR vision through a viewfinder cannot be replaced by EVFs.

If you are an intensive shooter and a though finder-viewer, SLR's prism is definitely less harmfull for your vision.

Also, as wildphotographers are concerned, the advantage of a "powerless" vision making thus indefinite observation through the OVF possible, has "no price" in comparison to power-assisted, thus power-depleting EVFs.

Very good point, I'll wait until they come up with E-ink display that refreshes only if there is change in the scene

**c.a.m** · 12-01-2021, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

If you are an intensive shooter and a though finder-viewer, SLR's prism is definitely less harmfull for your vision.

@Zygonyx, Please correct me if I have misinterpreted this statement. I think you are saying that viewing through an optical viewfinder is less harmful to the eye than viewing an electronic viewfinder.

Several months ago, I was curious about this possibility, and did a fairly deep search online to find any scientific papers that reported on the damaging nature of EVFs, helmet-mounted displays, and other closely-viewed display monitors. I did not find anything. Do you have any references? Thanks.

- Craig

Zygonyx · 12-01-2021, 11:32 AM

Yes c.a.m. this paper is quite "enlightning" on the mater :

https://www.pointsdevue.com/article/blue-light-what-are-risks-our-eyes

Smolk · 12-02-2021, 03:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Yes c.a.m. this paper is quite "enlightning" on the mater :

https://www.pointsdevue.com/article/blue-light-what-are-risks-our-eyes

Thanks for this link, which is enlightening quite apart from the EVF/OVF issue.

reh321 · 12-03-2021, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Yes, Pentax has a chance of doing exactly that. A good chance, IMO.
And yes, they'd need to do some smart marketing. Because others are doing counter-marketing

Every time some one else mentions Pentax’s name, Ricoh can save their cash for other things.
As long as people know that Pentax is still in business, and they still produce good DSLRs,
the job is already partly done.

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11-26-2021, 04:09 AM	#46
VictorDA Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lyon area, France Posts: 718	Originally posted by Rondec there is no particular reason that they won't continue to make SLRs I can think of an obvious one: Pentax is Doomed, didn't you know?

11-26-2021, 04:25 AM	#47
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653 Original Poster	Originally posted by victordeamorin I can think of an obvious one: Pentax is Doomed, didn't you know? I know you are joking, but I do think the next five years are going to be really difficult for all camera brands, not just Pentax. Canon and Sony are having a war. Nikon is doing their best to become relevant. Fuji is saying, "Why go full frame when you can go medium format?" For all of the talk about how cheap MILCs are to make, there is a lot of tech that goes into them and that requires R and D. All of the new lenses have taken a lot of money to get out there. Playing it conservative and working within your strengths is probably the way to go -- at least if you don't have 100 million dollars to burn.

11-26-2021, 05:04 AM	#48
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056	Well, next years will be crucial. Even Leica almost died and now market for ILS is not even shringing or burning, it is right down the black hole, far past event horizon (sorry, I am scifi geek ). Leica found its niche and someone who was willing to pay for it nesting herself in that niche. Will Ricoh fund Pentax niche? It seem so with the Pentax rebuild team that is rumored about. Interesting times, in a Chinese way I think. Anyway, Pentax getting recognition is a good thing. Especially if it is going with the "last DSLR brand" label as it may actually help a lot.

11-26-2021, 05:58 AM	#49
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec I think the point is that Pentax is aiming for is gradually moving upscale (nearly all cameras other than smart phones are). Build high quality, tightly made products with good ergonomics and pay influencers to rave about how they've been blown away by the connection they felt with their Pentax camera that they never did with their Sony. I'm not saying this is going to happen, but there is no particular reason that they won't continue to make SLRs and people from other brands who don't like EVFs will head in their direction. Yes, Pentax has a chance of doing exactly that. A good chance, IMO. And yes, they'd need to do some smart marketing. Because others are doing counter-marketing, including various sites with their dinosaurs allusions. I don't see anyone else attempting the same. But Pentax, they're doing it.

11-26-2021, 06:03 AM	#50
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rondec For all of the talk about how cheap MILCs are to make, there is a lot of tech that goes into them and that requires R and D. All of the new lenses have taken a lot of money to get out there. Playing it conservative and working within your strengths is probably the way to go -- at least if you don't have 100 million dollars to burn. It's all relative - MILCs are cheaper than DSLRs. But the MILC makers are - as you say - having a war; and they're fighting with a brute force approach, trying to win through performance and flooding the market with countless models.

11-26-2021, 06:06 AM	#51
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by Kunzite Yes, Pentax has a chance of doing exactly that. A good chance, IMO. And yes, they'd need to do some smart marketing. Because others are doing counter-marketing, including various sites with their dinosaurs allusions. I don't see anyone else attempting the same. But Pentax, they're doing it. Isn't that Fuji's approach as well? Not having ttl optical viewfinders does take away a huge chunk of the experience though. But design and ui wise they are trying.

11-30-2021, 11:20 AM	#52
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by pts1958 Il était important qu'ils parlent de Pentax ! It is important for them to talk about Pentax!

11-30-2021, 11:22 AM	#53
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Mikesul It is important for them to talk about Pentax! Not sure about that - I'd say, "It's important that they talk about Pentax!".

11-30-2021, 11:24 AM	#54
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by Kunzite Not sure about that - I'd say, "It's important that they talk about Pentax!". Well put!

11-30-2021, 11:44 AM - 1 Like	#55
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman I guess OVF vs EVF is a battle that cannot be won in the long term, as the latter continually improves and the size advantages are obvious. Size doesn't always matter... Realism, accuracy and "light neutrality" appearance of analogic SLR vision through a viewfinder cannot be replaced by EVFs. If you are an intensive shooter and a though finder-viewer, SLR's prism is definitely less harmfull for your vision. Also, as wildphotographers are concerned, the advantage of a "powerless" vision making thus indefinite observation through the OVF possible, has "no price" in comparison to power-assisted, thus power-depleting EVFs.

12-01-2021, 07:32 AM	#56
vijaykishan Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Gallery Posts: 999	Originally posted by Zygonyx Size doesn't always matter... Realism, accuracy and "light neutrality" appearance of analogic SLR vision through a viewfinder cannot be replaced by EVFs. If you are an intensive shooter and a though finder-viewer, SLR's prism is definitely less harmfull for your vision. Also, as wildphotographers are concerned, the advantage of a "powerless" vision making thus indefinite observation through the OVF possible, has "no price" in comparison to power-assisted, thus power-depleting EVFs. Very good point, I'll wait until they come up with E-ink display that refreshes only if there is change in the scene

12-01-2021, 08:22 AM	#57
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	Originally posted by Zygonyx If you are an intensive shooter and a though finder-viewer, SLR's prism is definitely less harmfull for your vision. @Zygonyx, Please correct me if I have misinterpreted this statement. I think you are saying that viewing through an optical viewfinder is less harmful to the eye than viewing an electronic viewfinder. Several months ago, I was curious about this possibility, and did a fairly deep search online to find any scientific papers that reported on the damaging nature of EVFs, helmet-mounted displays, and other closely-viewed display monitors. I did not find anything. Do you have any references? Thanks. - Craig

12-01-2021, 11:32 AM	#58
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Yes c.a.m. this paper is quite "enlightning" on the mater : https://www.pointsdevue.com/article/blue-light-what-are-risks-our-eyes

12-02-2021, 03:49 AM - 1 Like	#59
Smolk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Eerbeek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	Originally posted by Zygonyx Yes c.a.m. this paper is quite "enlightning" on the mater : https://www.pointsdevue.com/article/blue-light-what-are-risks-our-eyes Thanks for this link, which is enlightening quite apart from the EVF/OVF issue.

12-03-2021, 06:30 AM	#60
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Kunzite Yes, Pentax has a chance of doing exactly that. A good chance, IMO. And yes, they'd need to do some smart marketing. Because others are doing counter-marketing Every time some one else mentions Pentax’s name, Ricoh can save their cash for other things. As long as people know that Pentax is still in business, and they still produce good DSLRs, the job is already partly done.