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11-27-2021, 12:15 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Some interesting things in that article.
First, it takes a while to get to photography - smartphones and drones are more important.
Then, one of the potential "best lenses" is a Viltrox rebadged as Tokina. But no room for a genuine Pentax...

The only positive thing is that they didn't exclude Pentax (and Ricoh) completely.
All these ratings and awards are just to gather adverts from companies behind products. More budget particular company have - higher probability that it will be a winner in more 'prestigious' category. However, all of the market players are usually shortlisted, and all companies with SOME marketing budgets are winners in some categories... One not need to be Einstein to figure this out...

11-27-2021, 01:11 PM   #32
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I'm wondering if it's a conscious thing though. If they actually discuss it internally and optimize for ads. So much of that kind of stuff happens anyway in companies. It's like a subtext that just happens due to millions of little things making it seem natural and right.
11-27-2021, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
I'm wondering if it's a conscious thing though. If they actually discuss it internally and optimize for ads. So much of that kind of stuff happens anyway in companies. It's like a subtext that just happens due to millions of little things making it seem natural and right.
Hmmm...well, I think that ascribes too much agency to to the whole thing. I'd wager that it's more like a few decisions that take advantage of serendipity.
11-27-2021, 03:29 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
And there are lots of moving parts here, starting with DNA from Phil Askey and Brit snarkiness, which shades towards mean. He of the infamous "solution looking for a problem" remark dinging Olympus when they premiered the first live view capability.

Then there's Pentax's own awkwardness about marketing, and their conservative position in the market. Clearly a gear site is going to be more interested in technical innovation of the Sony type---although bear in mind that they weren't fans of Sony at first. And then there's video.


To be sure, DPR staffers have not helped themselves (cough, cough, Rishi), and I think the retraction they had to make when Richard Butler had to step in lingers in their minds, and left a sour taste in their mouths, even though it was their own damn fault.

I think Chris has a soft spot for Pentax, even though he seemed to be behind the "gag" of shooting video today with a K-01. He seems to try to look for positive things to say about Pentax, and just seems disappointed about the negatives.

So, I think we have to be thankful whenever something like this new bit of positivity happens. I wish it were different. But I think here I have to blame Pentax---things could be better.
While I do personally have some "beef" with the "technics" that some espouse (especially gushing on around technology that helps but does not replace how a good image is made) and don't usually comment in these sorts of threads, I do also want to point out that Jordan has commented on this site to provide context as to some of his points. We can't really tar everyone with the same brush.

It would be nice if Pentax could help him with the video (especially given where we started with the K-7 as the second DSLR with HD video).

11-27-2021, 04:08 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
While I do personally have some "beef" with the "technics" that some espouse (especially gushing on around technology that helps but does not replace how a good image is made) and don't usually comment in these sorts of threads, I do also want to point out that Jordan has commented on this site to provide context as to some of his points. We can't really tar everyone with the same brush.
Indeed we shouldn't. Particularly since even when we see anti-Pentax bias, in most cases it isn't intentional. And no, I don't think DPR is going for the ads... the structure of their readers base does contribute significantly, but they're not trying to sell through Amazon.

Jordan... he's just "video oriented". Naturally, Pentax isn't a good match for him.
Him and Chris should get over making fun of Pentax, IMHO.
11-28-2021, 06:11 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
I dont even think they should be considered consumer guidance. More like a means of showing whats happening.
Yes, that's a good perspective, and in that sense it may be useful too.
11-30-2021, 07:02 AM   #37
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I was disappointed that the new DA* 16-50 didn't at least make the short list....

11-30-2021, 07:31 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lloyd_Christmas Quote
I was disappointed that the new DA* 16-50 didn't at least make the short list....
too recent perhaps? It's an unusual lens though, a 24-75mm equivalent ought to have made it.
11-30-2021, 07:41 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lloyd_Christmas Quote
I was disappointed that the new DA* 16-50 didn't at least make the short list....
It's a bit of a vicious circle as they mostly only list stuff they've reviewed
11-30-2021, 11:18 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by pts1958 Quote
CANIKON et SONY payent un peu plus.... C'est mon avis !
CANIKON and SONY pay a bit more... That is my opinion!
11-30-2021, 01:56 PM - 2 Likes   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Hmmm...well, I think that ascribes too much agency to to the whole thing.
I agree.

As in many other cases, DPReview's behaviour is best explained by applying Hanlon's razor.

Add to that less familiarity with Pentax products compared to Sony products, for instance, and the comfort of dealing with a manufacturer that neither flies them to exotic locations for product releases, nor sponsors articles, nor is of importance to the majority of their readers, and you get a mixture that makes it easy for them to diss the products beyond what they deserve.

One would expect that professionalism would stop them from applying double standards, being more sloppy with Pentax-related articles, and denying Pentax perks (such as IBIS, and PixelShift) recognition before other brands have adopted them as well, but sadly, such expectations are misplaced when it comes to DPReview.
11-30-2021, 02:00 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I agree.

As in many other cases, DPReview's behaviour is best explained by applying Hanlon's razor.

Add to that less familiarity with Pentax products compared to Sony products, for instance, and the comfort of dealing with a manufacturer that neither flies them to exotic locations for product releases, nor sponsors articles, nor is of importance to the majority of their readers, and you get a mixture that makes it easy for them to diss the products beyond what they deserve.

One would expect that professionalism would stop them from applying double standards, being more sloppy with Pentax-related articles, and denying Pentax perks (such as IBIS, and PixelShift) recognition before other brands have adopted them as well, but sadly, such expectations are misplaced when it comes to DPReview.
The important thing is that Pentax is mentioned, so readers are reminded that Pentax is still producing cameras which could be purchased.

The actual reason for this is not important.
11-30-2021, 04:10 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
One would expect that professionalism would stop them from applying double standards, being more sloppy with Pentax-related articles, and denying Pentax perks (such as IBIS, and PixelShift) recognition before other brands have adopted them as well, but sadly, such expectations are misplaced when it comes to DPReview.

DPReview has certainly made missteps in some of their reviews of Pentax gear, and their test methodologies have been questionable. However, I also think it's fair to point out their positive views, such as in the subject of this thread and in these recent items, for example:

A blast from the present and past: Pentax DA 20-40mm F2.8-4 WR Limited sample gallery: Digital Photography Review: "The Pentax-DA 20-40mm F2.8-4 ED Limited DC WR was introduced back in 2013, but that doesn't mean it's unworthy of a place in your camera bag today (in fact, Ricoh sent us one along with their new flagship APS-C DSLR, the K-3 Mark III)."

Best cameras around $2000 in 2021: Digital Photography Review: "The Pentax K-3 III is a thoroughly polished APS-C DSLR built around the Pentax K-mount.

The K-3 III fits a good number of controls onto one of the most comfortable-to-hold camera bodies on the market...

The Pentax K-3 Mark III is shaping up to be one of the most well-rounded DSLRs we've ever seen. With fast burst speeds, in-body stabilization, 4K video and fantastic ergonomics, it looks to be a compelling option for those who prefer an optical viewfinder."


- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 11-30-2021 at 07:39 PM.
11-30-2021, 06:41 PM - 2 Likes   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
DPReview has certainly made missteps in some of their reviews of Pentax gear, and their test methodologies have been questionable. However, I also think it's fair to point out their positive views, such as in the subject of this thread and in these recent items, for example:

A blast from the present and past: Pentax DA 20-40mm F2.8-4 WR Limited sample gallery: Digital Photography Review: "The Pentax-DA 20-40mm F2.8-4 ED Limited DC WR was introduced back in 2013, but that doesn't mean it's unworthy of a place in your camera bag today (in fact, Ricoh sent us one along with their new flagship APS-C DSLR, the K-3 Mark III)."

Best cameras around $2000 in 2021: Digital Photography Review: "The Pentax K-3 III is a thoroughly polished APS-C DSLR built around the Pentax K-mount.

The K-3 III fits a good number of controls onto one of the most comfortable-to-hold camera bodies on the market...

The Pentax K-3 Mark III is shaping up to be one of the most well-rounded DSLRs we've ever seen. With fast burst speeds, in-body stabilization, 4K video and fantastic ergonomics, it looks to be a compelling option for those who prefer an optical viewfinder."

- Craig
I agree with this. I don't understand why the site is so demonized here. It's still a useful resource.

I remember the K-5 II and K-5 IIs reviews from this site and DPR. The DPR review was very positive, saying it was great camera and spending time on Pentax features like composition adjustment and Astrotracer that most reviews ignore. In contrast, the review here seemed to suggest that little was changes and buying a discounted K-5 was the better option. Given the solid reputation of the K-5 II among forum members, I think the DPR review was fairer. I also think DPR's coverage of the KP was quite positive, while it was getting a lot of criticism in the forums on release.

A lot of the time DPR gets Pentax users angry by pointing out things like limited lens line-up, non-defeatable noise reduction, uncompetitive AF and lack of video features. But the thing is these exact same limitations are often voiced in this community and are objectively true (at least until the K-3 III). So it's alright if we criticize but not DPR, is it?

I feel that their main fault is omission. The reviews are late and sometimes never come. They tend to criticize the full frame lens options, but they never gave credit for the APS-C lens line-up. They had a policy of not reviewing medium format cameras, until Fuji started making them and all of a sudden they did. They review cameras with the default JPEG profile, unless the maker calls it a "film simulation" and they they will wax lyrical about the different profiles. I think this is because their mentality is to let their criteria be defined by what the big players are doing. It's just conformity and lack of imagination, not malice.
12-01-2021, 01:24 AM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I agree with this. I don't understand why the site is so demonized here. It's still a useful resource.

I remember the K-5 II and K-5 IIs reviews from this site and DPR. The DPR review was very positive, saying it was great camera and spending time on Pentax features like composition adjustment and Astrotracer that most reviews ignore. In contrast, the review here seemed to suggest that little was changes and buying a discounted K-5 was the better option. Given the solid reputation of the K-5 II among forum members, I think the DPR review was fairer. I also think DPR's coverage of the KP was quite positive, while it was getting a lot of criticism in the forums on release.

A lot of the time DPR gets Pentax users angry by pointing out things like limited lens line-up, non-defeatable noise reduction, uncompetitive AF and lack of video features. But the thing is these exact same limitations are often voiced in this community and are objectively true (at least until the K-3 III). So it's alright if we criticize but not DPR, is it?

I feel that their main fault is omission. The reviews are late and sometimes never come. They tend to criticize the full frame lens options, but they never gave credit for the APS-C lens line-up. They had a policy of not reviewing medium format cameras, until Fuji started making them and all of a sudden they did. They review cameras with the default JPEG profile, unless the maker calls it a "film simulation" and they they will wax lyrical about the different profiles. I think this is because their mentality is to let their criteria be defined by what the big players are doing. It's just conformity and lack of imagination, not malice.
I agree it's not malice, I don't think it's anything intentional and thus we should not claim it is.
They also aren't all the same. There was the "WaterFAILS" article - remember it? Someone dissed the Pixel Shift basically because the Adobe software did not support motion correction. Simon Joinson apologized for it, and took it down. He didn't push back (like Rishi would), he just saw the glaring problem and corrected it. And apologized. Yes, I have to say this again.

I'm not demonizing DPReview; that would be stupid (and would give some credence to the "Pentax fanboys! Pentax fanboys everywhere!" shouts of various other brands' fanboys )
But I'm not ignoring the many issues with their reviews and articles either. The "WaterFAILS"? That's harsher than what they said about Sony's own Pixel Shift implementation (you know, the cumbersome one). The "non-defeatable noise reduction", what they said about it can't be seen in their own samples, and they lied that it's "Star eater on steroids" and no, they didn't test that, it was cloudy
Speaking of their own samples, it's typical that they'd publish a first set of blatantly wrong ones, push back when that's pointed out to them, then finally redo them. The K-3iii's samples suffer from shutter shock, something many other cameras have, too - but we wouldn't find out from the DPR article. They didn't replace them with ES versions. I've seen people speculating the K-3iii's review "must" be delayed because of some horrible problem resulting in blurred pictures, and Ricoh Imaging "must" be struggling to figure out what's the problem. That's insane.
The AF tests, there was a lot of talk about these because there are valid questions like "where did you put the AF point" and "why are the settings different".
That medium format wasn't interesting until the Fujifilm? Typical. Pentax has something, it's not interesting - or even bad. Other brand gets said something, wow! Let's call this a slight consistent inconsistency
And the K-3iii review? Said to be days apart - few months ago. Then it was basically ready, just some text to write. Prioritized lower than anything, and I mean anything.

In other words, there's no malice - that's just how they treat a brand with a small user base. And I bet they're thinking they're doing us a big favor just by covering the brand at all.
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