[RobA_Oz]

It is possible to influence the smartphone settings with an app like Halide, and I'm sure there are others too. Sometimes, when I don't like what Camera on the iPhone does, I turn to this app.
But indeed, in the end I want even more control.

It isn't just the settings, though, is it? The problems that any photographer has with using a smart phone for more than occasional photos, are the limited range of focal lengths (increasing, admittedly, as more and more cameras are mounted on them) and the ergonomics.

[repaap]

I don't agree with this.

Smartphones will take over most of what was once taken by P&S cameras, but most "hobby/enthusiast guys' will feel a need for more control, which they won't get from a smartphone.

It is hard to control shutter speed or aperture, which is what drove me to rangefinder cameras over fifty years ago.
I'm also not sure that many will find EVF to be intolerable - at least, many are using them regularly now.

There are pretty smart smartphones now a days. Many are happy with what it can do, and don’t give a flying pig a but technique. Already overlooking the result when compared to pictures taken with ’actual’ camera. Now I have no mean to turn this tread to this subject.

What I was meaning to say that there are people who will prefer DSLR even if most ’popular’ choises are not DSLR. As well as there are people who actually are not coping with EVF. I’m one of those.

[Smolk]

It isn't just the settings, though, is it? The problems that any photographer has with using a smart phone for more than occasional photos, are the limited range of focal lengths (increasing, admittedly, as more and more cameras are mounted on them) and the ergonomics.

Absolutely, ergonomics being the worst part: you're almost forced to move the camera when releasing it. Focal lengths will be a matter of time, though.

[Rondec]

There are pretty smart smartphones now a days. Many are happy with what it can do, and don’t give a flying pig a but technique. Already overlooking the result when compared to pictures taken with ’actual’ camera. Now I have no mean to turn this tread to this subject.

What I was meaning to say that there are people who will prefer DSLR even if most ’popular’ choises are not DSLR. As well as there are people who actually are not coping with EVF. I’m one of those.

People can actually tell the difference between a smartphone image and an ILC with a decent lens, even at web sizes. I post some images to social media at times and people always want to know what camera and "filters" I use because my images are so much better than theirs. They are disappointed to find out that they aren't taken with a phone at all.

For most people this doesn't matter -- phone images are good enough and to learn an ILC takes energy and time -- but people who are really interested in photography will continue to purchase free standing cameras. I agree with you some of those will choose an SLR design over MILC.

[repaap]

People can actually tell the difference between a smartphone image and an ILC with a decent lens, even at web sizes. I post some images to social media at times and people always want to know what camera and "filters" I use because my images are so much better than theirs. They are disappointed to find out that they aren't taken with a phone at all.

For most people this doesn't matter -- phone images are good enough and to learn an ILC takes energy and time -- but people who are really interested in photography will continue to purchase free standing cameras. I agree with you some of those will choose an SLR design over MILC.

Yes, this is what I ment to say

[reh321]

What I was meaning to say that there are people who will prefer DSLR even if most ’popular’ choises are not DSLR. As well as there are people who actually are not coping with EVF. I’m one of those.

Outside PF, I hear very few of them …… which means that very few total people feel that way ….,,, not much ‘extra’ market for Pentax to reach.

[repaap]

Outside PF, I hear very few of them …… which means that very few total people feel that way ….,,, not much ‘extra’ market for Pentax to reach.

Umm, plenty photographers shooting film, professionals. Plenty people not going to 'upgrade' to MILC, because they don't enjoy that. I perfonally know couple non pentax and there are even more I do not know personally, and this is 'just' at Finland.

Might not mean much to you, but honestly, I'm through with this 'discussion'. Have a good day

[RobA_Oz]

Outside PF, I hear very few of them …… which means that very few total people feel that way ….,,, not much ‘extra’ market for Pentax to reach.

“Not much” is relative, though. For a product to be viable, there just has to be “enough”.

[house]

As I've said before, on social media just the Pentax 67 posts seem to drown out Pentax digital. Of course social media isn't everything but whether you like it or not it's a good gauge for what people are interested in. (outside the top bot driven or otherwise manipulated topics)

[BROO]

Umm, plenty photographers shooting film, professionals. Plenty people not going to 'upgrade' to MILC, because they don't enjoy that. I perfonally know couple non pentax and there are even more I do not know personally, and this is 'just' at Finland.

Might not mean much to you, but honestly, I'm through with this 'discussion'. Have a good day

All it is going to take is Canon and Nikon to continue to supply DSLR cameras and the Richoh strategy to wait for the 'great migration back' will fall over.
It is a lousy strategy to hope your competitors go away so you can survive.

[repaap]

All it is going to take is Canon and Nikon to continue to supply DSLR cameras and the Richoh strategy to wait for the 'great migration back' will fall over.
It is a lousy strategy to hope your competitors go away so you can survive.

I’ll wathch them starting to do DSLR again to kill that ’bleed’ . I suppose that we will learn in year or 2 if it was a ’good’ move. By that time there should be K-1III

Edit: they’ll need to do more that just keep on doing DSLR again. For Nikon D6 was quickly replaced with Z9. Why? It is competing with A1 and R..what ever is now coming. Other models are gone .

Now if Pentax want to get those guys? Not so sure. Pentax want to be unique. Photography all the way.

[c.a.m]

It is a lousy strategy to hope your competitors go away so you can survive.

@BROO, Are you suggesting that this is Ricoh Imaging's stated strategy? I don't recall having seen this in any of their recent statements.


- Craig

[Paul the Sunman]

It is a lousy strategy to hope your competitors go away so you can survive.

The word "strategy" implies there was a choice.

[Smolk]

Umm, plenty photographers shooting film, professionals.

There are new emulsions coming to market, which shows that film isn't dead. It may not be at the levels of the last century peak - but that might be a good thing, given the silver emulsions and all that jazz.

[luftfluss]

Seems like a good time to post this...

A couple years ago, Dave Etchells (once E-I-C of Imaging-Resource) interviewed several executives of Ricoh Imaging. It was from this interview that some photography websites (ahem) decided to post clickbait headlines stating that Ricoh predicted most MILC users would return to DSLR. Here is a segment of that interview, which I feel includes necessary context for how Ricoh anticipates Pentax's presence in the market to play out.

Dave Etchells: ...This is maybe just another way of asking the question about mirrorless, but while the overall market for interchangeable-lens is decreasing, DSLR is decreasing more rapidly. How has that been felt within Ricoh, and what are the ways that you intend to combat that general decline?


Hiroki Sugahara: Currently, mirrorless is a newcomer, so of course many users are very interested in the new systems, they want to use [them]. But after one or two years, some users who changed their system from DSLR to mirrorless come back to the DSLR again.


Dave Etchells: Really?


Hiroki Sugahara: I believe. Because as I said before, each system has its own benefits or appealing points. The mirrorless camera is very convenient to shoot, because users can [preview the final] image before shooting. But I believe the DSLR has its own appealing point, because users can create their own image from the optical viewfinder. People can see the beautiful image through the optical viewfinder, and then think how they can create their pictures -- for example, exposure level setting or white balance or ISO [sensitivity] -- and then imagine how they can get [the result they're seeking].


Dave Etchells: Mmm, mmm.


Hiroki Sugahara: That is one of the big [advantages] of shooting [DSLR] cameras, so some users will come back to the DSLR system. But it might be they use both systems, DSLR and mirrorless. Because each system has its own benefits.


Dave Etchells: Yeah, yeah.


Hiroki Sugahara: So the DSLR market is currently decreasing a little bit, but one year or two years or three years later, it will [begin] getting higher.


Dave Etchells: You think it will return, will start growing again.


Hiroki Sugahara: Yeah. Yes, yes.


Dave Etchells: Hmm, interesting. I do think it's true that users don't decide they're going to go to a new system, sell everything they have and get it. Usually, they'll get a body and a lens, and then maybe they buy another lens, but it's not like they're typically throwing out their whole camera system.


Hiroki Sugahara: Yes, yes. So they have lenses for DSLR, so they can come back to DSLR easily. They can just buy a new DSLR body, and then they can easily come back to the DSLR system.


Dave Etchells: Mmm. In many cases, because mirrorless has a shorter flange depth, then they can also use their SLR lenses with mirrorless. And so in that way, too, it's another reason for them not to discard the SLR. They can use both systems as each is best.


Hiroki Sugahara:Yes, exactly.


https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/05/14/ricoh-interview-sub-frame-m...ss-will-return