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11-27-2021, 12:30 PM   #31
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Thank you JPT as well as kbw for all of this. Sounds like fun event actualy, and I suppose this kind of info was what I was thinking they should say..althou FW update for K-3III did not materialise, did it?

I really like that they are thinking out of box, and basically thinking new ways of finding the pleasure of photography, like manual verison. There is already enough of tech race going on. One of the reasons to love Pentax is just this.

that DFA 21 lens element box does look awesome!

Thanks you!

11-27-2021, 12:30 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I don't mind if they keep the prism same as is on the K1 II. If there is no Pentax K1 II successor with substantially higher resolution sensor, I'll pass on the one, I can keep using my current K1 / II. If Ricoh doesn't provide higher res. in K mount, my next upgrade won't be with Pentax. I currently up-res my file for printing because the native res. of the K1 isn't sufficient, but AI processing time is a pain in the neck, but I can easily imagine I could get a camera from another brand and print straight out of camera, which would same me a lot of time.


I disagree that prism tech is that important. For me, the image output and capture reliability (ability to get sharp detailed and in focus image every time) is more important than a 5% better viewfinder prism.
People who don't recognize the importance of prism tech will probably drift to another manufacturer in any case.

I disagree with the thought that they need more resolution - I am drawn more to the idea of a lower {say 24mp} "FF" version than to anything else suggested. I seldom print, but I do use shots straight out of my KP.
Of course, I have always expected viewers to look at my photos from a 'respectful distance'.

I do expect Pentax to develop a higher-resolution. {which will provide less and less rationale for their continuing the '645' line)
11-27-2021, 12:49 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I disagree with the thought that they need more resolution - I am drawn more to the idea of a lower {say 24mp} "FF" version than to anything else suggested. I seldom print, but I do use shots straight out of my KP.
I agree. As I print, I found that consistency of image capture is more important than sensor resolution alone. When the 36Mpixels are perfectly captured (no blur, well focused), I can print fairly large without problem. When the capture isn't well focused or when there is some mirror/shutter blur, sharpening becomes tricky, and eventually I have to give up the idea to print some of the imperfectly captured images. So, if Ricoh Imaging would fit a 61Mpixel sensor in the current Pentax K1 body , the output would be very inconsistent, a lot of the images wouldn't be worth the 61Mp.
11-27-2021, 12:51 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
People who don't recognize the importance of prism tech will probably drift to another manufacturer in any case.

I disagree with the thought that they need more resolution - I am drawn more to the idea of a lower {say 24mp} "FF" version than to anything else suggested. I seldom print, but I do use shots straight out of my KP.
Of course, I have always expected viewers to look at my photos from a 'respectful distance'.

I do expect Pentax to develop a higher-resolution. {which will provide less and less rationale for their continuing the '645' line)
This is unless they have next 645 with100 MP sensor.

I’m not that crazy anymore for the idea of 24 MP FF. Especially if there would not be higher model. I think that they will polish up old OVF and make image more clear, rather than going for 1,05x like it is now with K-3III. I do believe that they have pretty good idea of what it will take. For me, crisp clear prism like K-3III but with similar size as old OVF of K-1 should be good. That focus point grid would also fill that screen well enough. Update AF and many other things with 7,5 fps, and we are set.

11-27-2021, 01:04 PM - 1 Like   #35
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I think they should develope a 61mps version of the k-1 using K-3 MKIII image processing tech. Keep the current K-1 on sale in parallel as the low res alternative.
I have been to a gallery where the photographer uses this sensor and the images are breathtaking.
A 61mps K-1 would give a pathway up and would increase demand for the new HD lenses.


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11-27-2021, 01:30 PM   #36
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Frankly I am not really surprised that they are still discussing new K-1. I would not be that surprised if they are wondering how to get out of FF at all and announce that there will be no new FF.

It seems that making FF with new prism tech will be prohibitively expensive. I wonder if making 645 with new prism, even if expensive, would not make them more money then new prism FF.
11-27-2021, 01:31 PM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I disagree with the thought that they need more resolution
You may disagree, but you are not the market. For me, there is no reason too buy anything from Pentax is no higher than 36Mpixel is offered. Simple, if you don't need more than 24Mp, just keep using the KP you already own, but that's not business case for Pentax.

---------- Post added 27-11-21 at 21:34 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jersey Quote
It seems that making FF with new prism tech will be prohibitively expensive.
If there are issues with a larger prism on the K1, I guess it's not because of the cost, but because of the geometry of the K mount / mirror box. I remember they had to re-engineer the mirror mechanism in the K1 because the classic apsc design wouldn't fit. On the K3 III they had FF headroom to play with, on the K1 there's no such headroom.

11-27-2021, 01:34 PM - 2 Likes   #38
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Personally, I'm only interested in high res FF with the new prism tech. And hopefully at least decent FPS. A D850 killer, in short.

Go bold or go home.
11-27-2021, 01:37 PM - 1 Like   #39
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You are not the market either. And the images like the ones you linked are available for cheap in any Ikea-like shop. Nothing breathtaking. Nice, but resolution does not make them breathtaking.
11-27-2021, 01:39 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jersey Quote
I would not be that surprised if they are wondering how to get out of FF at all and announce that there will be no new FF.
That would mean the end of Pentax. Currently, the largest number of Pentax customers are FF customers. A K1 upgrade with better specs , decently priced , released now would far exceed sales of Pentax K3 III, in my opinion.
11-27-2021, 01:40 PM - 1 Like   #41
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Lately everything is end of Pentax for you.
11-27-2021, 01:42 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by jersey Quote
You are not the market either. And the images like the ones you linked are available for cheap in any Ikea-like shop. Nothing breathtaking. Nice, but resolution does not make them breathtaking.
I don't post my images online. And I don't consider myself the market, far from it. I look at Pentax trends, looking at what cameras are most popular.

---------- Post added 27-11-21 at 21:42 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jersey Quote
Lately everything is end of Pentax for you.
Thanks. Strange comment, at slight hint of uninvited personal attack, I don't know why.
11-27-2021, 01:45 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
This is unless they have next 645 with100 MP sensor.

I’m not that crazy anymore for the idea of 24 MP FF. Especially if there would not be higher model. I think that they will polish up old OVF and make image more clear, rather than going for 1,05x like it is now with K-3III. I do believe that they have pretty good idea of what it will take. For me, crisp clear prism like K-3III but with similar size as old OVF of K-1 should be good. That focus point grid would also fill that screen well enough. Update AF and many other things with 7,5 fps, and we are set.
Pentax has said they are concentrating on K-mount right now.
They may already be reaching the limits of usable resolution, and there are already questions about how much computer space a user wants to devote to one photo and how long the camera takes to process it {related to the questions of burst rate and queue size). Going 'down' with "FF" may make more sense than continuing to go 'up' if they decide to have two "FF" models.
11-27-2021, 01:53 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by jersey Quote
Frankly I am not really surprised that they are still discussing new K-1. I would not be that surprised if they are wondering how to get out of FF at all and announce that there will be no new FF.

It seems that making FF with new prism tech will be prohibitively expensive. I wonder if making 645 with new prism, even if expensive, would not make them more money then new prism FF.
Maybe they are thinking of dropping both their '645' and 'APS-C' lines.
That may make more sense than dropping the 'FF' line - afterall, they were a mostly 'FF' line much longer than the current mix has existed.
A '645' camera might be so expensive as to cause most customers to rethink their 'allegiance', especially those of us who have several generations of K-mount lenses and zero '645' lenses.
11-27-2021, 02:37 PM   #45
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First of all they do seem do discuss the same things we are discussing. Same options on the table as people around here are asking for. It was also exactly the type of community event i suspected it was.

QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
Next FF (sorry I initially titled this "K-1 successor", but looking at my memo, this was NOT necessarily about K-1 successor):
I was surprised that they are still internally debating its concept. They presented all four on the table in this order.
  1. New prism a la K-3III, new image processing engine, higher Mp (no specific number was mentioned). Some K-3III technology. "Technically the most difficult." I thought that Wakashiro-san sounded as if he doesn't think that this will be likely.
  2. Low-res ("for example 25 Mp"), no new image processing engine, but quicker operation speed due to smaller data.
  3. "Compact, lightweight, simple model". Full manual. Sounded similar to K-3 III full manual model they want to offer on crowdfunding (discussed in another thread) but I'm not sure if that was really what Wakashiro-san was talking about.
  4. K-1 prism will stay the same, but based on the existing K-3 III tech. This is a much less ambitious version of 1.
  1. I think the K-1 viewfinder isn't *that* great. It has a bit of tint and is only moderately large and crisp. An improved viewfinder would be nice. A shame but expected that it's proving difficult. I don't really need a more high spec camera than the K-1 though so not of particular interest to me.
  2. Number two sounds pretty boring. If you're scaling down an already old camera something has to be improved or changed. In reality though it would be a great camera for many, many users.
  3. I like number three but it would have to be quite cheap to make sense. I would love to see what they can do with such a model. Proper focussing screen?
  4. This is the normal path. A competent FF dslr. Seems to me it makes sense to take advantage of the K-3 III software but clearly they have options that don't which sounds like a pretty extreme cost saving measure. Did they say anything about the sensor resolution of such a model?
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