HOYA, the future and Bens impact.

jeffkrol · 12-08-2008, 07:01 PM

Got your attention I hope:
Some quotes from HOYA:
http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_meeting_summary.pdf
Pentax：digital cameras
・ This segment features a very hard-fought struggle compared with the same term last year. The effects of exchange rates were relatively minor until the 2Q and POS demand varies from country to country. However, in France for example, it declined suddenly in August Was this because of BEN???

, while the same happened in Germany slightly earlier and likewise in the U.S., it declined in July and August. According to the monthly shipment statistics issued by the CIPA, until September they were riding on the crest of a wave and shipping of newly manufactured items continued relatively briskly one after the other, but around summer, in-store sales clearly started slowing down with lost momentum, as seen in the year-on-year increases of 15% or 20% they had enjoyed up to then. Our sales also decreased significantly on a year-on-year basis, with accumulated stocks and production and marketing carried out while keeping the market conditions in mind. Another factor was price; there was a significant drop in unit prices. The decline in the unit prices of compact digital cameras had a particularly grave impact, given the advent
of a new low-end product at 79 dollars finally realized. This unit price decline was
damaging to us, in terms of both sales and profits.・ Essentially, the products we are now producing and selling were developed last summer or autumn, with a roadmap that lacked strategy in my view. OUCH.... As I said in the previous meeting, we remade a completely new roadmap for the next fiscal year in accordance with the "scrap & build" policy: creating unique cameras of a new and different field, and releasing and commencing the marketing of interchangeable lenses at the same time as new cameras. As for new products for this year, a new single-lens reflex camera K-m model (an entry level high-end model) was launched about two. Next year, we are planning to launch some three types, including minor design change versions, of single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras. With a desire to offer cameras which will demonstrate our advantages, as announced in the Photokina held in Germany, we will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistnat, splash-proof, and dustproof, small and light, easily portable and tough (durable).

**monochrome** · 12-08-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Got your attention I hope:
Some quotes from HOYA:
http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_meeting_summary.pdf
Pentax：digital cameras

"With a desire to offer cameras which will demonstrate our advantages, as announced in the Photokina held in Germany, we will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistnat, splash-proof, and dustproof, small and light, easily portable and tough (durable)."

Back to the future.

Doesn't sound to me as if Hoya is writing the epitaph for Pentax. Rather they are staking turf as a landscape enthusiast/pro camera company, focusing on glass and small, light, innovative bodies.

Wasn't that Pentax until 1988?

FWIW, our local independent camera store chain (St. Louis - Creve Couer Camera) has been running holiday ads on prime time TV, featuring (in this order) Nikon, Pentax, Canon, Sony. They always have a decent stock of DSLR bodies and popular lenses and get fast turnaround on special orders. Excellent used department - nice prices on common lemses and sometimes a deal on K-series stuff - lots of 645's and once in a while a 6x7.

cpopham · 12-08-2008, 08:09 PM

But the sky..... it must be falling..... Pentax must be on the verge of bankruptcy........ Hoya must be grooming them for sale...

Because..... if none of these things is true... then the future must be bright...

This just can't be, surely?!

jeffkrol · 12-08-2008, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by cpopham

But the sky..... it must be falling..... Pentax must be on the verge of bankruptcy........ Hoya must be grooming them for sale...

Because..... if none of these things is true... then the future must be bright...

This just can't be, surely?!

I have to admit that I was one of the "sky is falling" people. From the beginning I never saw HOYA as being overly committed to Pentax and cameras. This was supported in part by HOYA's own words. I still have my doubts as to the outcome of this HOYA experiment. But to temper that even if it was still "just Pentax" the same doubts could apply and as things are going forward, it appears it could have been worse being "just Pentax". The one major niggle is HOYA is, and would be expected to be, adverse to throwing good money behind bad (or however that statement goes) and the above statement I quoted leads me to believe that they still have commitment to a success.
On the downside if you read more of this PR blurb you can find things like this:
Q: It can be seen from the data concerning the consolidated personnel that you
downsized by some 200 people in the 2Q in advanced nations alone, but in which
fields? In future, will the personnel be reduced in advanced nations, or in Asia, you
production base?
A：(COO Hamada) As we are going to seek optimization in every business omnidirectionally,
there is no specific target area at present. On a divisional basis, personnel downsizing will
come mainly in businesses with less growth and others whose conditions are expected to
worsen in future, namely, those other than the Eye Care and Medical segments.
BUT this in no way spells out the end of Pentax camera.....

Peter Zack · 12-08-2008, 09:08 PM

"will demonstrate our advantages," wouldn't I like that to mean the mount will give full metering on older lenses. Never gonna happen but one can dream.

3 new bodies huh. Well what's the guess? Entry level, mid and high end? I'm positive they are not going FF but maybe something more to solve the AF/high ISO/FPS etc complaints.

It's going to be an interesting and challenging year. Anyone that survives 2009 will be good for decades to come. They really need to work on dealer relationships and marketing.

Blue · 12-08-2008, 09:20 PM

They may be going to pull a mount change like Canon did with the FD to EOS move but with a really dedicated KAF derived mount that will only take newer lenses.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 12-09-2008, 04:19 AM

"Next year, we are planning to launch some three types, including minor design change versions, of single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras."

"minor design change versions" is plural meaning 2 or 3, but it can't be 3 because then they would not say "including", they should just say three modified bodies, so it must be 2 modifications, meaning that the third body is something entirely new!? I admit this is only slightly better than reading the future from the bottom of my tea cup, but yet interesting.

lithos · 12-09-2008, 04:30 AM

Oh, deities no, blue...*shudders*

That's gotta be Pentax's biggest adantage. Backwards compatibility.

Trouble is, "backwards compatibility" is a dirty phrase in the digital age. We're looking forward! Modernism rules in the digital world! To say you have faith in something older than six months - blasphemy! It's admitting defeat, that you have no new ideas, that you're staid and boring! Forward, always forward!

Besides, if blokes like me can use a K lens or an M lens or Tak, that's cuts profits from the sale of new lenses. In this sense, the K mount is a liability.

But I think culling it would be a bigger liability.

Though there is the precedent with Canon, yes. Canon's FD SLRS, from what I hear, weren't given a second though in the pro stakes.

With the introduction of the EOS, sure, Canon properly ushered in the AF era. But it wasn't just a bunch of a new tech and plast- er, I mean polycarbonate bodies. Sure, Minolta worked on the body-mounted AF motors, but Canon worked on lens-motor AF.

It wasn't that the EOS was a breakthrough on its own. Canon had a concerted marketing push behind it.

I had a photojournalist tutor in uni, ex-newspaper photog. When she recommended a camera, she recommended Canon. Why? She'd been there since the last days of the Nikon F reign - why Canon?

She said that Canon were the best, as they'd shown they'd "cared" about photojournalism - when the EOS came out, Canon made a lot of severely loss-leading sales to newspapers. Whole kits, with a variety of pro-grade zooms and primes, flashes, the whole shebang. (Can't think why she said that'd help out students - "Oh, you're doing a single photography subject? Please take this ID and a half-dozen L lenses of your choice for a flat fee o $1000".)

I think that's what Hoya needs to do.

Let Pentax have another crack at it, and get behind it. Right behind it.

A new set of cameras, a clean slate design to differentiate them from the last set. For the love of Jupiter, improve the bloody AF. One of them to have a custom Sammy sensor.

A decent, multimedia marketing campaign. Focus on the heritage of Pentax, its advantages, its history - how it's a camera company, not a mere consumer electronics company. The trailblazing work on pentaprisms, in-camera metering, instant return mirrors, and multicoating. Hell, even AF.

And for crying out loud, spread the love, ok? Not just in the US and Europe. Wideband it, go global.

*isteve · 12-09-2008, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

"Next year, we are planning to launch some three types, including minor design change versions, of single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras."

"minor design change versions" is plural meaning 2 or 3, but it can't be 3 because then they would not say "including", they should just say three modified bodies, so it must be 2 modifications, meaning that the third body is something entirely new!? I admit this is only slightly better than reading the future from the bottom of my tea cup, but yet interesting.

K20D and 200D are due for (urgent) replacement. Km will need a mid life upgrade during 2009 to keep it competitive. I would expect the K30D and 300D to move upmarket gradually as the KM holds the bottom slot.

lithos · 12-09-2008, 04:32 AM

And, dagnabbit, there's a lot of life left in the K mount yet.

*isteve · 12-09-2008, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Back to the future.

Doesn't sound to me as if Hoya is writing the epitaph for Pentax. Rather they are staking turf as a landscape enthusiast/pro camera company, focusing on glass and small, light, innovative bodies.

Wasn't that Pentax until 1988?

Yes and it would be nice to see them back in the saddle. I just hope they dont lose the plot regarding other key areas such as AF. They do need to stay performance-competitive at least in their price bracket whilst offering ruggedness, portability and weather proofing as the icing on the cake.

Wombat · 12-09-2008, 05:48 AM

What they need is a new film slr (K mount, with built-in M42 adapter). That'd encourage Kodak, Ilford and co. to produce more film, which would create more demand for more film cameras, which would encourage Kod...oh well, a man can dream.

TaoMaas · 12-09-2008, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by lithos

Oh, deities no, blue...*shudders*

That's gotta be Pentax's biggest adantage. Backwards compatibility.

Trouble is, "backwards compatibility" is a dirty phrase in the digital age. We're looking forward! Modernism rules in the digital world! To say you have faith in something older than six months - blasphemy! It's admitting defeat, that you have no new ideas, that you're staid and boring! Forward, always forward!

Besides, if blokes like me can use a K lens or an M lens or Tak, that's cuts profits from the sale of new lenses. In this sense, the K mount is a liability.

But I think culling it would be a bigger liability.

I think it would be a HUGE mistake to come out with a new mount. Think about the consequences of a move like that. Suddenly, every piece of gear owned by the members of this forum hits a dead end. So we have to choose between sticking with a system that we know will never get better or else selling the equipment we have at a huge loss (because it's a dying system) and re-buying everything. And, if we all have to re-buy from scratch, who's to say that we'd go Pentax again? I think that the backwards compatibility is one of the major things that's holding people in the Pentax camp.

thibs · 12-09-2008, 06:28 AM

Mmm ther's also another possibility although I doubt it: Pentax said (dunno which rep) in an interview that they were open about micro 4:3.

They might chose to put out a body Canon-G9-style but with interchangeable lenses. That would be damn nice. IMO if something like that comes, it will be at least a year away but well, who knows ?

IMO: K30(0)D, K3(0)D, 645D, that's it for this year.

Wheatfield · 12-09-2008, 06:47 AM

I think if Hoya was planning on eviscerating Pentax and dropping the camera line, we probably wouldn't have seen the K20D, and certainly not the K-m. I do anticipate that we will see less backwards compatability going into the future, much more than we would have seen if Pentax was still a stand alone company.
I can see a day when they remove the ability to shoot with non A series lenses. They did it with their later film bodies (MZ-30, I believe)
I think dropping the K-mount would be akin to falling on their swords though. They now have too large a user base using the relatively modern DA optics to abandon the mount.
Frankly, I wouldn't buy a non K-Mount Pentax. My relationship with the company only lasts as long as I can use my A series lenses, but in return, I have been fairly generous with regard to buying DA lenses. I think I have half a dozen of them.
Think of the way Nikon has done it, where they effectively have two lens mounts. The low end bodies require lenses that have certain modern amenities such as AF, microchips built in, that sort of thing, but if you move to the high end stuff, you have a great amount of backwards compatibility with lenses, though I believe non AI lenses can no longer be used with any Nikon.
That would be the equivalent to our pre-A series lenses, I suppose.

12-08-2008, 07:01 PM	#1
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	HOYA, the future and Bens impact. Got your attention I hope: Some quotes from HOYA: http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_meeting_summary.pdf Pentax：digital cameras ・ This segment features a very hard-fought struggle compared with the same term last year. The effects of exchange rates were relatively minor until the 2Q and POS demand varies from country to country. However, in France for example, it declined suddenly in August Was this because of BEN??? , while the same happened in Germany slightly earlier and likewise in the U.S., it declined in July and August. According to the monthly shipment statistics issued by the CIPA, until September they were riding on the crest of a wave and shipping of newly manufactured items continued relatively briskly one after the other, but around summer, in-store sales clearly started slowing down with lost momentum, as seen in the year-on-year increases of 15% or 20% they had enjoyed up to then. Our sales also decreased significantly on a year-on-year basis, with accumulated stocks and production and marketing carried out while keeping the market conditions in mind. Another factor was price; there was a significant drop in unit prices. The decline in the unit prices of compact digital cameras had a particularly grave impact, given the advent of a new low-end product at 79 dollars finally realized. This unit price decline was damaging to us, in terms of both sales and profits.・ Essentially, the products we are now producing and selling were developed last summer or autumn, with a roadmap that lacked strategy in my view. OUCH.... As I said in the previous meeting, we remade a completely new roadmap for the next fiscal year in accordance with the "scrap & build" policy: creating unique cameras of a new and different field, and releasing and commencing the marketing of interchangeable lenses at the same time as new cameras. As for new products for this year, a new single-lens reflex camera K-m model (an entry level high-end model) was launched about two. Next year, we are planning to launch some three types, including minor design change versions, of single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras. With a desire to offer cameras which will demonstrate our advantages, as announced in the Photokina held in Germany, we will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistnat, splash-proof, and dustproof, small and light, easily portable and tough (durable).

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12-08-2008, 07:35 PM	#2
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by jeffkrol Got your attention I hope: Some quotes from HOYA: http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_meeting_summary.pdf Pentax：digital cameras "With a desire to offer cameras which will demonstrate our advantages, as announced in the Photokina held in Germany, we will relaunch ourselves next year as a manufacturer of all-weather cameras which are strong outdoors, highly water-resistnat, splash-proof, and dustproof, small and light, easily portable and tough (durable)." Back to the future. Doesn't sound to me as if Hoya is writing the epitaph for Pentax. Rather they are staking turf as a landscape enthusiast/pro camera company, focusing on glass and small, light, innovative bodies. Wasn't that Pentax until 1988? FWIW, our local independent camera store chain (St. Louis - Creve Couer Camera) has been running holiday ads on prime time TV, featuring (in this order) Nikon, Pentax, Canon, Sony. They always have a decent stock of DSLR bodies and popular lenses and get fast turnaround on special orders. Excellent used department - nice prices on common lemses and sometimes a deal on K-series stuff - lots of 645's and once in a while a 6x7.

12-08-2008, 08:09 PM	#3
cpopham Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Auckland Posts: 553	But the sky..... it must be falling..... Pentax must be on the verge of bankruptcy........ Hoya must be grooming them for sale... Because..... if none of these things is true... then the future must be bright... This just can't be, surely?!

12-08-2008, 08:56 PM	#4
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by cpopham But the sky..... it must be falling..... Pentax must be on the verge of bankruptcy........ Hoya must be grooming them for sale... Because..... if none of these things is true... then the future must be bright... This just can't be, surely?! I have to admit that I was one of the "sky is falling" people. From the beginning I never saw HOYA as being overly committed to Pentax and cameras. This was supported in part by HOYA's own words. I still have my doubts as to the outcome of this HOYA experiment. But to temper that even if it was still "just Pentax" the same doubts could apply and as things are going forward, it appears it could have been worse being "just Pentax". The one major niggle is HOYA is, and would be expected to be, adverse to throwing good money behind bad (or however that statement goes) and the above statement I quoted leads me to believe that they still have commitment to a success. On the downside if you read more of this PR blurb you can find things like this: Q: It can be seen from the data concerning the consolidated personnel that you downsized by some 200 people in the 2Q in advanced nations alone, but in which fields? In future, will the personnel be reduced in advanced nations, or in Asia, you production base? A：(COO Hamada) As we are going to seek optimization in every business omnidirectionally, there is no specific target area at present. On a divisional basis, personnel downsizing will come mainly in businesses with less growth and others whose conditions are expected to worsen in future, namely, those other than the Eye Care and Medical segments. BUT this in no way spells out the end of Pentax camera.....

12-08-2008, 09:08 PM	#5
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	"will demonstrate our advantages," wouldn't I like that to mean the mount will give full metering on older lenses. Never gonna happen but one can dream. 3 new bodies huh. Well what's the guess? Entry level, mid and high end? I'm positive they are not going FF but maybe something more to solve the AF/high ISO/FPS etc complaints. It's going to be an interesting and challenging year. Anyone that survives 2009 will be good for decades to come. They really need to work on dealer relationships and marketing.

12-08-2008, 09:20 PM	#6
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	They may be going to pull a mount change like Canon did with the FD to EOS move but with a really dedicated KAF derived mount that will only take newer lenses.

12-09-2008, 04:19 AM	#7
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	"Next year, we are planning to launch some three types, including minor design change versions, of single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras." "minor design change versions" is plural meaning 2 or 3, but it can't be 3 because then they would not say "including", they should just say three modified bodies, so it must be 2 modifications, meaning that the third body is something entirely new!? I admit this is only slightly better than reading the future from the bottom of my tea cup, but yet interesting.

12-09-2008, 04:30 AM	#8
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Oh, deities no, blue...shudders That's gotta be Pentax's biggest adantage. Backwards compatibility. Trouble is, "backwards compatibility" is a dirty phrase in the digital age. We're looking forward! Modernism rules in the digital world! To say you have faith in something older than six months - blasphemy! It's admitting defeat, that you have no new ideas, that you're staid and boring! Forward, always forward! Besides, if blokes like me can use a K lens or an M lens or Tak, that's cuts profits from the sale of new lenses. In this sense, the K mount is a liability. But I think culling it would be a bigger liability. Though there is the precedent with Canon, yes. Canon's FD SLRS, from what I hear, weren't given a second though in the pro stakes. With the introduction of the EOS, sure, Canon properly ushered in the AF era. But it wasn't just a bunch of a new tech and plast- er, I mean polycarbonate bodies. Sure, Minolta worked on the body-mounted AF motors, but Canon worked on lens-motor AF. It wasn't that the EOS was a breakthrough on its own. Canon had a concerted marketing push behind it. I had a photojournalist tutor in uni, ex-newspaper photog. When she recommended a camera, she recommended Canon. Why? She'd been there since the last days of the Nikon F reign - why Canon? She said that Canon were the best, as they'd shown they'd "cared" about photojournalism - when the EOS came out, Canon made a lot of severely loss-leading sales to newspapers. Whole kits, with a variety of pro-grade zooms and primes, flashes, the whole shebang. (Can't think why she said that'd help out students - "Oh, you're doing a single photography subject? Please take this ID and a half-dozen L lenses of your choice for a flat fee o $1000".) I think that's what Hoya needs to do. Let Pentax have another crack at it, and get behind it. Right behind it. A new set of cameras, a clean slate design to differentiate them from the last set. For the love of Jupiter, improve the bloody AF. One of them to have a custom Sammy sensor. A decent, multimedia marketing campaign. Focus on the heritage of Pentax, its advantages, its history - how it's a camera company, not a mere consumer electronics company. The trailblazing work on pentaprisms, in-camera metering, instant return mirrors, and multicoating. Hell, even AF. And for crying out loud, spread the love, ok? Not just in the US and Europe. Wideband it, go global.

12-09-2008, 04:30 AM	#9
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden "Next year, we are planning to launch some three types, including minor design change versions, of single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras." "minor design change versions" is plural meaning 2 or 3, but it can't be 3 because then they would not say "including", they should just say three modified bodies, so it must be 2 modifications, meaning that the third body is something entirely new!? I admit this is only slightly better than reading the future from the bottom of my tea cup, but yet interesting. K20D and 200D are due for (urgent) replacement. Km will need a mid life upgrade during 2009 to keep it competitive. I would expect the K30D and 300D to move upmarket gradually as the KM holds the bottom slot.

12-09-2008, 04:32 AM	#10
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	And, dagnabbit, there's a lot of life left in the K mount yet.

12-09-2008, 04:36 AM	#11
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by monochrome Back to the future. Doesn't sound to me as if Hoya is writing the epitaph for Pentax. Rather they are staking turf as a landscape enthusiast/pro camera company, focusing on glass and small, light, innovative bodies. Wasn't that Pentax until 1988? Yes and it would be nice to see them back in the saddle. I just hope they dont lose the plot regarding other key areas such as AF. They do need to stay performance-competitive at least in their price bracket whilst offering ruggedness, portability and weather proofing as the icing on the cake.

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12-09-2008, 05:48 AM	#12
Wombat Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 901	What they need is a new film slr (K mount, with built-in M42 adapter). That'd encourage Kodak, Ilford and co. to produce more film, which would create more demand for more film cameras, which would encourage Kod...oh well, a man can dream.

12-09-2008, 06:21 AM	#13
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by lithos Oh, deities no, blue...shudders That's gotta be Pentax's biggest adantage. Backwards compatibility. Trouble is, "backwards compatibility" is a dirty phrase in the digital age. We're looking forward! Modernism rules in the digital world! To say you have faith in something older than six months - blasphemy! It's admitting defeat, that you have no new ideas, that you're staid and boring! Forward, always forward! Besides, if blokes like me can use a K lens or an M lens or Tak, that's cuts profits from the sale of new lenses. In this sense, the K mount is a liability. But I think culling it would be a bigger liability. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to come out with a new mount. Think about the consequences of a move like that. Suddenly, every piece of gear owned by the members of this forum hits a dead end. So we have to choose between sticking with a system that we know will never get better or else selling the equipment we have at a huge loss (because it's a dying system) and re-buying everything. And, if we all have to re-buy from scratch, who's to say that we'd go Pentax again? I think that the backwards compatibility is one of the major things that's holding people in the Pentax camp.

12-09-2008, 06:28 AM	#14
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Mmm ther's also another possibility although I doubt it: Pentax said (dunno which rep) in an interview that they were open about micro 4:3. They might chose to put out a body Canon-G9-style but with interchangeable lenses. That would be damn nice. IMO if something like that comes, it will be at least a year away but well, who knows ? IMO: K30(0)D, K3(0)D, 645D, that's it for this year.

12-09-2008, 06:47 AM	#15
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	I think if Hoya was planning on eviscerating Pentax and dropping the camera line, we probably wouldn't have seen the K20D, and certainly not the K-m. I do anticipate that we will see less backwards compatability going into the future, much more than we would have seen if Pentax was still a stand alone company. I can see a day when they remove the ability to shoot with non A series lenses. They did it with their later film bodies (MZ-30, I believe) I think dropping the K-mount would be akin to falling on their swords though. They now have too large a user base using the relatively modern DA optics to abandon the mount. Frankly, I wouldn't buy a non K-Mount Pentax. My relationship with the company only lasts as long as I can use my A series lenses, but in return, I have been fairly generous with regard to buying DA lenses. I think I have half a dozen of them. Think of the way Nikon has done it, where they effectively have two lens mounts. The low end bodies require lenses that have certain modern amenities such as AF, microchips built in, that sort of thing, but if you move to the high end stuff, you have a great amount of backwards compatibility with lenses, though I believe non AI lenses can no longer be used with any Nikon. That would be the equivalent to our pre-A series lenses, I suppose.