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01-21-2022, 05:02 AM   #106
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Homemarket only?

I havent read the whole thread, so please excuse me if this have been said earlier.

There is no equivalent document at their english pages, as far as I can see. So I guess this is for homemarked only.

01-21-2022, 05:09 AM   #107
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Another thing. As I found out when looking for dfa21 samples. A surprising amount of the social media dfa21 shots were taken with Jlimited cameras. Maybe a skew amongst Japanese social media users but interesting non the less.
01-21-2022, 05:24 AM - 3 Likes   #108
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This handwriting was on the hall a long time ago for me. Their business strategy/plan was garbage for many years. Plus ZERO R&D and it showed.

The non-mirrorless direction/decision was just plain stupid ... and why I am pulling away from Pentax despite years of deep loyalty.

I dumped all my Limited lenses last year along other assorted AF K-mount glass ... plus I sold off the K-1 two months ago. I had it for over 5 years, and Pentax did nothing with this body ... the K-1ii does not count since there were no major differences IMHO. None.

I guess that I will keep my M glass collection, my beloved Tak collection and a few fav' film bodies, being the MX, ME Super, Spot F & Spot II, for the short list. Using my lens collection on the X-T3 & X-Pro for lots of fun. Maybe a Nikon or Sony mirrorless next year, so as to shoot them all on FF.

If Pentax develops a FF mirrorless, then I will be all over it ASAP ... would be great with the M's & Tak's.

I guess that hope springs eternal for me and my Pentax dreams ... enough of my rant.
01-21-2022, 05:52 AM - 5 Likes   #109
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workshop-like manufacturing

First - the "mirrorless camera" with its rolling shutter, electronic viewfinder, snappy frames per second, and 8k video has been around for years. It's just a camcorder, not the "future of photography." The reason I don't use the "photo" button on the camcorder to take photos is because I prefer using a [D]SLR. Canon is being overtaken by Sony and Fuji and wants to keep their market position by dropping DSLR's. This doesn't improve images for photographers, only profits for Canon.

From the description of "workshop-like" manufacturing I'm thinking Alien Bees / Paul Buff. They've been around since the dawn of time selling exclusively on-line, not thru retailers. Their prices are reasonable and service is outstanding. They have a single circuit board and add/remove components for 400, 800, or 1600ws units, keeping a small inventory of each model.

imho, I've always thought of Pentax as an imaging company, not a camera company. They're right to think of the camera as a lens accessory since the magic is in the lens, not the number of features or the number of auto-focus points (groan).

Building cameras using a limited manufacturing model could open the door to selling film cameras again. There's a huge market for the K-1000 right now.

01-21-2022, 06:02 AM - 1 Like   #110
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edit: oh well! someone put a plug in it.

Last edited by D1N0; 01-21-2022 at 06:52 AM.
01-21-2022, 06:15 AM - 3 Likes   #111
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Again, Pentax leads the way. It had already closed Japanese factories and sent production to Vietnam and the Philippines, outsourced product support, stopped pandering to snobby bricks and mortars stores in favour of the mass online retailers, discarded all the expensive marketing that plagues Canon, Nikon and Sony.

The big companies are going to have to face reality and do something similar, become niche divisions, too. Going mirrorless has not saved them. Phones are murdering the camera market for all but a handful of rich amateurs and increasingly impoverished professionals, who can't get enough work or what they'd be paid for it is a fraction of ten years ago.

In a world where kids make music on their laptops these days, the boutique and custom shops for Fender and Gibson are the only ways those giants can still sell American made guitars. Their 'normal' guitars - ones that would cost less than a Pentax K-3 III, for example - are often made in places like Mexico or China or Indonesia these days, usually with a distinguishing label (Squire or Epiphone, etc).

Last edited by clackers; 01-21-2022 at 06:22 AM.
01-21-2022, 06:16 AM - 1 Like   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think the idea of Ricoh Imaging (opposite to CaNikonSony model) is to sell more products to the same customers via offering a range of complementary products and customizable options (colors, accessories, and why not monochrome , astro etc.). That's why they have 360, GR, APSC, FF and MF, but one camera model of each type current at any point in time (one medium format, one full frame, one or two apsc model, one 360, one or two GR). If we look at Sony, they have no 360 and mostly FF, but a broad range of FF specs (how many, 10 FF cameras on sale with different specs?), that means as a Sony user you may only buy one camera and upgrade when the next model upgrade comes out, Sony need a lot of customers. With Ricoh Imaging, small number of customers, the same customer may own a GR for compact-travel-street, and a K3III with a 150-450 for wildlife at national parks, and a Pentax K1 with 24-70 and 70-200 for landscape and portraits. Ricoh Imaging business model is totally different from the big 3 camera makers, due to having a small market share they make money via diversification of related products. It's viable approach by the business books, but it requires a lot a agility of the staff, being able to switch from designing 360 fixed lens mirrorless system to designing FF DSLR ILC.
I think that Pentax offer of upgrading your K-1 to MK II was nice, even if it was not really a update. Better thanCanon doing R5, which failed in video(overheat), them made it again, with a FAN. Then sell it again for guys who wanted more from their original R5, which is now R5C and will cost more… never the less.(Sony did the same with FX3)

It might be that we will see more of innovative things from Ricoh. While it is true that some might have GR and K-3III and K-1(perhaps even theta), it could be that Ricoh want to give unique experience for their present and future customers. Sure one might be waiting newest updates but there are people who want to build their own kit looking good to them and their social media

This does not mean that there will not be development (R&D) but it does mean that we might have more of choices. Like you mentioned Sony. They have several different cameras and you’ll get a compromise unless you buy A1. A7 is okay, but lacking compared to. Only AF is almost the same.

So, Ricoh was playing around with the idea of the next K-1(speculation ) could be ordered without AF if one desired or with monochrome sensor, or with AF or…? Not so sure if this will be the case, but it does sound like there are some possible bumps unbuild. This could although mean that those parts could be changed too. But it is more likely that this will be more subtle than that. Like cosmetically and grip/handling vise enhanced experience for the customers.

01-21-2022, 06:19 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think it means we'll be ordering new gear via GoFundMe

I'm only partly joking... If they mean what I think they mean, it's "on-demand manufacturing" - which could be implemented a number of different ways, such as smaller production runs on a more frequent basis, to fulfilling only pre-committed orders. Either way, it avoids having a lot of unsold stock in their warehouses, with distributors, and with mail order firms / retail partners.

So, yes - I think you're probably right... it's a variation on JIT manufacturing...
Yep, sounds a bit like what Cosyspeed did with the backpack Cosyspeed Photohiker 44. They cooperated with Vaude, created a basic prototype photo backback, connected with photographers who discussed the prototype with the internet community via youtube (and maybe other channels) (=> workshop). Development decisions and production batch sizes were made by Cosyspeed. They started with the 44 version, got feedback that there was also the need for a smaller version. The first run for the black Photohiker 44 was risked by Cosyspeed (I ordered it via their website), the next run was placed via Kickstarter.com. Different items were addressed: a color version of a 24 and 44 and the mid and large sized inlet for the camera equipment. I think going this route Cosyspeed reduced their financial risc massively and maybe strengthened the relationship to their customers.

Last edited by acoufap; 01-21-2022 at 07:05 AM. Reason: additional info inserted
01-21-2022, 06:19 AM - 4 Likes   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jean Poitiers Quote
Go.

Away.
Hey guys,

calm down...easy...

Both of your are somehow right. I am a Pentaxian since 1982 and will stay here. For me DSLR is the right thing and as Mando says: THIS IS THE WAY
However, I can see Jean`s point ro leave ships... so yes: may he/she go in peace, it is a deliberate decision.

The transformation in a more boutique-like store is somehow intriguing... it is so LEICA like. But we'll have to see what future brings. Until now, their course was not to bad for me and I can take any desired photo.

Best from Germany
Georg
01-21-2022, 06:23 AM - 3 Likes   #115
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Well if they're going this way I'm expecting a Limited run of say 100 of the full set of FA Limited's but instead of crappy little cardboard boxes and fake leather bags, I want Japanese wood, varnished beautifully, foam cutouts with an alcantara covering with drawers for a lens pen, cleaning fluid, microfiber clothes and maybe a set of gloves - If they want top dollar, present in a top dollar fashion and build a sense of reverence around their halo products.
01-21-2022, 06:24 AM - 5 Likes   #116
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Deciding to leave the brand - that's perfectly fine with me. After all, who am I to tell people what to use? (I don't want to be told either!)
Lying about "ZERO R&D" for "many years" and telling people who prefer DSLRs that Pentax continuing DSLRs is "plain stupid" OTOH...
01-21-2022, 06:28 AM - 11 Likes   #117
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I've trimmed a number of posts since a couple of our members just cannot play nice. Next move is targeted thread bans. It's a very worthy topic IMHO, but not at all helpful when one or two make it their personal goal to convince everyone just how doomed or not doomed Pentax is by using insults and loud then louder voices.

One warning.
01-21-2022, 06:35 AM - 1 Like   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Deciding to leave the brand - that's perfectly fine with me. After all, who am I to tell people what to use? (I don't want to be told either!)
Lying about "ZERO R&D" for "many years" and telling people who prefer DSLRs that Pentax continuing DSLRs is "plain stupid" OTOH...
For some people it has felt like that, even if it is not true. Many of Pentaxians have left. For the MILC . Not so many has used K-3III + DA*16-50 PLM to compare it with simlarily working MILC.

Some has. Some will not even bother.

So what.

As you said it too let’s not forget that some of these jumper’s have burned their fingers with Pentax not immediately answering the competition. Well in that change Pentax could have kept some of customers and lost the rest. Now they are unique. How cool is that! And with pretty nice AF too
01-21-2022, 06:49 AM - 1 Like   #119
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At this point, Ricoh Imaging would read posts on DPR and Pentaxforums, and scratch their heads: "how on Earth did they made this out of what we said?".
Perhaps they just stay away to preserve their sanity.

A more reasonable interpretation:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65855813
01-21-2022, 06:55 AM - 1 Like   #120
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I don't think they pay much attention to their fans outside Japan, so I'm not expecting that they are worried about our interpretations...
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