[thibs]

Depends if you see the Meizu 19 as camera with which you are able to call your girlfriend, and she be able to call you on your camera, or that it is a smartphone with a minor photographing capability .

Well, it's not as if Leica took a 4G license for including their logo on Huawei phones, did they ?

[Mistral75]

How did these companies end up with the Pentax name?

I'd guess it has to do with penta meaning five in Greek and the x looking nice at the end of the word.

[Mooncatt]

2) Although the main camera sensor on the Meizu 19 will be 64MP, it will almost certainly use pixel-binning to improve image quality (this is how such sensors are implemented in the majority of current phones). The 64MP sensor and camera app will likely produce 16MP images as standard.

I've yet to understand the reason for 64MP smartphone cameras. Not only for the resolving power of the lenses, but noise levels are insane and not usable. They would've been better off at 16MP sensors that were cheaper and need less processing instead of pixel binning. I have an LG V60, arguably one of the best phone cameras at the time, but using 64MP mode is a hot mess.

But, if Pentax collaborates, it's different. Can you imagine a 64MP sensor (or even 16-24MP) combined with pixel-shift technology? That could be a game changer, especially if they perfect handheld pixel-shift abilities. Now those extra high resolution sensors may be worth something.

Being in the U.S, it's not likely to be a phone I can use, but I hope for the best if it comes to be.

[BigMackCam]

I've yet to understand the reason for 64MP smartphone cameras. Not only for the resolving power of the lenses, but noise levels are insane and not usable. They would've been better off at 16MP sensors that were cheaper and need less processing instead of pixel binning. I have an LG V60, arguably one of the best phone cameras at the time, but using 64MP mode is a hot mess.

64MP mode on my Redmi Note 9 Pro is awful too I don't fully understand the "how" and "why", but I'm pretty sure I read that 64MP with pixel-binning to create a 16MP image gives better results than a native 16MP sensor. Though the phones allow us to use 64MP mode, that's not how it was designed to be used.

But, if Pentax collaborates, it's different. Can you imagine a 64MP sensor (or even 16-24MP) combined with pixel-shift technology? That could be a game changer, especially if they perfect handheld pixel-shift abilities. Now those extra high resolution sensors may be worth something.

Pixel-shift would be cool, but I'd settle for pro-mode camera features and image quality (in both good and low light) that matches - or comes close to matching - the latest high end Google Pixel and Apple iPhone, with raw capture of course. Regardless, it's going to be priced beyond what I'd pay. As a matter of principle, I will [u]not[/i] pay more than GBP £200 for a smartphone. There's no specific reason for that limit - it just seems like more than enough to spend on a phone...

[jersey]

Quad and nona cell Bayer arrays are not "better" then bigger pixel, but offer higher resolution in good light conditions while retaining pretty low noise when light is not perfect. That is why they are preferred in "pimp the saturation" phone cameras. Megapixels just sell well.



Sony, Apple and Google are still using low res sensors. Samsung, oh irony, too for the main camera, but it advertises 100+ Mp secondary cam cause, well, Mp sell better

[TwoUptons]

I wonder if part of the trade is that Meizu will help Ricoh out on the hardware/integration side...

Outside of the imaging sensor, there's a lot a modern camera has to do in terms of communication... pretty much like a phone...
Except for, well, the actual phone part...

-Eric

[thibs]

64MP mode on my Redmi Note 9 Pro is awful too I don't fully understand the "how" and "why", but I'm pretty sure I read that 64MP with pixel-binning to create a 16MP image gives better results than a native 16MP sensor. Though the phones allow us to use 64MP mode, that's not how it was designed to be used.

You don't ? Man, you're so simple. 64 > 16 ! Is that so hard to get ?

Simple as that.

[BigMackCam]

You don't ? Man, you're so simple. 64 > 16 ! Is that so hard to get ?

Simple as that.

Thanks. That's the comprehensive technical explanation I was missing. Much appreciated

[longbo]

Here's a Pentax water pump... and if I'm not mistaken, that's an M42 screw-mount at the front. I don't recognise the hotshoe, though ...

Hahaha!😁

[Mooncatt]

64MP mode on my Redmi Note 9 Pro is awful too I don't fully understand the "how" and "why", but I'm pretty sure I read that 64MP with pixel-binning to create a 16MP image gives better results than a native 16MP sensor. Though the phones allow us to use 64MP mode, that's not how it was designed to be used.

Oddly enough, my V60 only allows 64MP in the standard photo mode. If I use manual mode, I'm limited to 16MP binned at the most.

Pixel-shift would be cool, but I'd settle for pro-mode camera features and image quality (in both good and low light) that matches - or comes close to matching - the latest high end Google Pixel and Apple iPhone, with raw capture of course.

This is why I loved LG's V-series phones so much. I don't buy into all the AI gimmicks, and LG has the best stock manual controls of any other name brand phone. Not as good as a dedicated camera, but pretty good nonetheless. It even has manual controls for both audio and video when recording vids. Unfortunately the V60 is the end of the line, because LG left the phone market last year. Not sure what I'll move to when the time comes.

[thibs]

Thanks. That's the comprehensive technical explanation I was missing. Much appreciated

We're joking but that junk still works. I mean, the bitter numbers.

[BigMackCam]

Oddly enough, my V60 only allows 64MP in the standard photo mode. If I use manual mode, I'm limited to 16MP binned at the most.

This is why I loved LG's V-series phones so much. I don't buy into all the AI gimmicks, and LG has the best stock manual controls of any other name brand phone. Not as good as a dedicated camera, but pretty good nonetheless. It even has manual controls for both audio and video when recording vids. Unfortunately the V60 is the end of the line, because LG left the phone market last year. Not sure what I'll move to when the time comes.

We're joking but that junk still works. I mean, the bitter numbers.

My Redmi Note 9 Pro Max is much the same... it has a 64MP mode, and all "Pro" features are available (manual shutter speed, white balance etc.) but only takes JPEG photos in that setting. For raw, it will only shoot 16MP pixel-binned files. The interesting thing with 64MP files is, they look suspiciously like scaled versions of 16MP images. From the testing I've done, raw images shot at 16MP then scaled to 64MP and post-processed carefully look much better than the in-camera 64MP JPEG files. All of which tends to confirm that these 64MP sensors / camera modules aren't really designed to shoot natively at 64MP... pixel-binning is an intrinsic part of their imaging pipeline...

[pinholecam]

A few points:

1) Whilst Meizu may not be a well-known / popular brand in the West, its 18 and 18 Pro models appear to be very capable mid-to-high-end smartphones with good photographic capability. The 18 Pro sells for around USD $800.

2) Although the main camera sensor on the Meizu 19 will be 64MP, it will almost certainly use pixel-binning to improve image quality (this is how such sensors are implemented in the majority of current phones). The 64MP sensor and camera app will likely produce 16MP images as standard.

3) I have a relatively low-to-mid-range smartphone, the Xiamoi Redmi Note 9 Pro Max. Its main camera also uses a 64MP sensor with 0.8µm pixels, and an f/1.9 fixed aperture lens. With pixel-binning, it outputs 16MP files as standard. While the JPEG image quality is typical smartphone fayre - punchy and over-sharpened - it also shoots DNG raw, where the image quality from the main camera is actually very good indeed.

If the Meizu 19 is a high-quality, well-sorted product, having the Pentax name associated with its camera could boost sales and open up new markets... and Ricoh would benefit by getting the Pentax name out to a wider audience, increasing brand awareness. Some of today's smartphone photographers might be tomorrow's ILC buyers. I think it could be a profitable move for both companies

Over here, every brand is available without needing to look too hard.
Anyone can just go into a store or two and get the phone brand/model they want.
There are no qualms about privacy / made in China / etc, so brands like the Huawei have been popular as have smaller players like Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, ZTE, etc

Meizu just does not have any presence (hmm... sounds just like Pentax... )

I can't see it being better in Western countries.


It would be interesting to know about how well they do in other South East Asia countries (ie. Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam .. ) and India. These are larger markets and hopefully that revenue/brand presence will pay off there.

[TwoUptons]

My Redmi Note 9 Pro Max is much the same... it has a 64MP mode, and all "Pro" features are available (manual shutter speed, white balance etc.) but only takes JPEG photos in that setting. For raw, it will only shoot 16MP pixel-binned files. The interesting thing with 64MP files is, they look suspiciously like scaled versions of 16MP images. From the testing I've done, raw images shot at 16MP then scaled to 64MP and post-processed carefully look much better than the in-camera 64MP JPEG files. All of which tends to confirm that these 64MP sensors / camera modules aren't really designed to shoot natively at 64MP... pixel-binning is an intrinsic part of their imaging pipeline...

I thought in a lot of cases the extra pixels were mainly there to give the AI more to work with... that the final image was intended to be ~16Mp but that having 64 (or whatever) let the camera play some interesting processing tricks before reducing the image the final size.

The assumption being there was always lots of processing going on at the pixel level, for whatever reason...

-Eric

[ThorSanchez]

Quad and nona cell Bayer arrays are not "better" then bigger pixel, but offer higher resolution in good light conditions while retaining pretty low noise when light is not perfect. That is why they are preferred in "pimp the saturation" phone cameras. Megapixels just sell well.



Sony, Apple and Google are still using low res sensors. Samsung, oh irony, too for the main camera, but it advertises 100+ Mp secondary cam cause, well, Mp sell better

The Google Pixel 6 has a 50 MP main sensor and a 48 MP telephoto. But both use pixel binning in most (all?) cases to produce ~16 MP files.