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View Poll Results: Would you buy K20D Super if it had FF sensor instead of current cropped one?
No, I think I'll never go Full Frame. 25244.06%
Yes, where can I pre-order? 32055.94%
Voters: 572. You may not vote on this poll

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02-21-2009, 04:25 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeff1101 Quote
APS-C development has plateud. Even Nikon knows this, you can only cram so many pixels in APS-C, and since people think megapixels is important (and in some ways it is) then APS-C is , in development terms a dead end.
I'm with you.....

It's a choice of larger sensors or keep rehashing similar APS-C products over and over and over again.

Mind you, FF isn't that far behind APS-C in terms of development headroom. Roughly twice the MP count will give us the same pixel desnsity as the current APS-C sensors.

bazz.

02-21-2009, 06:58 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by sir_bazz Quote
I'm with you.....

It's a choice of larger sensors or keep rehashing similar APS-C products over and over and over again.

Mind you, FF isn't that far behind APS-C in terms of development headroom. Roughly twice the MP count will give us the same pixel desnsity as the current APS-C sensors.

bazz.
Roughly 33.1mp ff will give you the same density as 14mp aps...
02-21-2009, 07:02 PM   #138
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BUT....

if Pentax comes out with a FF DSLR all the DA lenses will sort of useless, right? They won't work on a FF DSLR will they?
02-21-2009, 09:09 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
if Pentax comes out with a FF DSLR all the DA lenses will sort of useless, right? They won't work on a FF DSLR will they?
Why not? Look at the Nikon cameras. They will project circle on a smaller part of FF sensor , that's all.

02-21-2009, 10:45 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by sir_bazz Quote
I'm with you.....

It's a choice of larger sensors or keep rehashing similar APS-C products over and over and over again.

Mind you, FF isn't that far behind APS-C in terms of development headroom. Roughly twice the MP count will give us the same pixel desnsity as the current APS-C sensors.

bazz.
This whole "APS-C has hit the limit" thing is incredibly misguided. So far, we have 2! APS-C sensors at or above 14mp, the one in the K20D and the one in the canon 50D. That's not a whole lot to base a scientific opinion off of. One of those two sensors, the K20D sensor, performs great. The other, the 50D sensor, has been given a lot of bad-mouthing, particularly by DPReview. I don't see why we consider DPR so inept at testing pentax cameras but jump on a bad review of another brand's camera? Many of the flaws that point to the 50D sensor having "reached the limits of APS-C" in the DPR review have been shown to be due to flawed testing methodology and mistunderstanding of things like noise-per-pixel and diffraction limitation. The other flaws (poor pixel-level sharpness, anyone?) do not point to high pixel density as a problem, as there are numerous other potential causes of such problems. Their attribution to pixel density is little more than wild conjecture. Most of the "evidence" for the idea is based on misunderstanding. To me the evidence shows the opposite, that higher pixel densities on the same size sensor will deliver higher IQ in print (the real test) and the real limiters on IQ with a given sensor size is the current state of sensor technology and cost. With advances in sensor tech and the ever-falling cost of components, APS-C still has a LOT left in it.

Remember when people thought 10mp was the ultimate practical limit?
02-21-2009, 11:35 PM   #141
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I've made a decision a while ago: FF doesn't matter to me.

I use 50mm and above on the dgital camera and for color mostly. Potraits and concert shots.

15mm to 50mm on film mostly black and white.

Where do I need FF? Ultra Wide Angle to normal. Hence, film. Plus I am used to it and love it.
02-22-2009, 01:09 AM   #142
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waiting for a full frame body ,not 1.3x
and i hope pentax stop made too much DA lens
02-22-2009, 02:17 AM   #143
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Samsung will make FF, not Pentax.

Pentax will have APS-C and MF cameras.
Samsung will have FF and microAPS-C.

02-22-2009, 02:28 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Samsung will make FF, not Pentax.

Pentax will have APS-C and MF cameras.
Samsung will have FF and microAPS-C.
Boris, does this make sense to you? Not to me...
02-22-2009, 02:33 AM   #145
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I think that Pentax help to make FF to Samsung
02-22-2009, 05:33 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
if Pentax comes out with a FF DSLR all the DA lenses will sort of useless, right? They won't work on a FF DSLR will they?
The still work. They function just like APS lenses, which means they will give you lower rec pictures at a lighter weight and lower cost.
02-22-2009, 07:29 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote

Remember when people thought 10mp was the ultimate practical limit?
Your point is well taken as long as you are limiting the ISO to less than 800. There are always trade offs. The idea of having optimum performance in both resolution and high ISO in one body is rather silly. As good as the K20D sensor is I'm sure you could bump the resolution up to near FF quality by increasing the MP count and stayed below ISO 800. Conversely you could increase high ISO quality substantially by reducing the MP's down to the 10 MP area.

That begs the question does Pentax have the nerve to produce two different bodies optimized for specific markets. Secondly are there enough buyers out there that are willing to purchase two separate cameras to get optimum performance.
02-22-2009, 08:18 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Samsung will make FF, not Pentax.

Pentax will have APS-C and MF cameras.
Samsung will have FF and microAPS-C.
Then I will soon (?) own two Samsungs!!

In the mean time, I have just used a true Pentax FF camera and it was awesome!!!


... it was about time I gave my Z1P a little exercise!!! Loaded with a seriously outdated roll of TMAX 3200 (expired since 02/2000...) and fitted with an even more outdated M 50f1.7, it was a pleasure to use (again)!
02-22-2009, 09:36 AM   #149
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The major UK show is on tomorrow in Birmingham, The Focus show, and Pentax are not even exhibiting There are hundreds of exhibitors in what is a major photographic industry event over here.

The one argument I would say would make most buy a FF Pentax SLR is the ability to take the old manual PK lenses. I'd say Pentax should develop the cropped lenses seperately and use the old lenses and the few FF compatible primes as the driver for a FF camera.

I for one would jump at the chance of any FF camera which would take my old PK primes, such as the 16mm, 28mm and in particular the 50mm 1.7's. I am just looking for the full benefit of these optical gems
02-22-2009, 10:41 AM   #150
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Hi Substitute

Re your statement:
QuoteQuote:
I've made a decision a while ago: FF doesn't matter to me.
I realise that this might probably seem like a slightly spurious analogy, but just suppose for a moment that you been an Olympus Pen -frame F/FT/FV user back in the 1960's, is it likely that you would have still held the same opposition towards full-frame SLR's ?
I suppose my real question being: if price were NOT the overriding consideration (i.e. for argument's sake APS-C and FF DSLR's cost the same amount), would you still hold the same opinion and if so, why ? Just curious.....

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 02-22-2009 at 11:06 AM.
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