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View Poll Results: Would you buy K20D Super if it had FF sensor instead of current cropped one?
No, I think I'll never go Full Frame. 25244.06%
Yes, where can I pre-order? 32055.94%
Voters: 572. You may not vote on this poll

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12-15-2008, 10:41 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Puling numbers ($2) out of your a** isn't any better IMO.




A lot more than you think, because it screws metering. How would any brand explain ti a user (being pro or dvanced or whatever) that an official accessory to a product lowers the reliability of said product? This is compelte non sense. A pity I agree but it doesn't change anything.

Do the other brands offer such screens? That's easy to put that on Pentax stubbornness don't you think ?
First of all can you try to be a bit more polite. Thank you.

$2 is not correct number, how expensive it could be? Guess the number, a $100?

I use Split image screens from Kats Eye , they do screw spot meeter at about 2 stops, center weighted and Matrix is dead accurate.
Not a show stopper, and they tell u this upfront.

Oh, BTW, If spot metering is done not in the area of central AF point, it wouldn't be affected. Since this solution was implemented on my 1968 Mamiya some 40 years ago, I think Pentax can do something similar in 2008, don't you agree?

12-15-2008, 11:38 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by solar1 Quote
...considerations and roadmaps can be changed.
12-15-2008, 11:42 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
I was half joking calling it stubbornness.
But then again: Pentax don't have FF camera because there's no FF lens lineup, and there's no FF lens lineup because there's no FF Pentax body. Where do we start?

Just for the record. Pentax designers or managers do have issues with stubbornness. For example everybody here would agree that using inbody flash as AF assist is bad, and Nikon/Canon style inbody AF assist lamp will improve Pentax AF hunting in low light bug time. But for years Pentax is refusing to build this simple $2 feature in the bodies. This is what I call real stubbornness.
Probably because Canons do NOT have AF assist lamps and yet they manage to focus pretty well in low light last time I checked.

In fact, nor do Oly and Sony AFAIK. The Sony A700 and Oly E3 have the fastest AF speeds of the lot.

Plus an AF assist beam is no more useful than the flash strobe because it has a very limited range and is a pain when you forget to turn it off at a concert.

So before you have a go at Pentax, why not check your facts.
12-15-2008, 12:21 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
I was half joking calling it stubbornness.
But then again: Pentax don't have FF camera because there's no FF lens lineup, and there's no FF lens lineup because there's no FF Pentax body. Where do we start?
If Pentax were to release a FF body, they would need to release FF lenses at the same time. A 12-24, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 would be the *minimum* requirement. Considering how long it's taken them just to release the DA*60-250, I think that's beyond their current means (and that goes for 645D too). Also, that would pull the rug out from under the upcoming DA15 and DA*55, which would no longer make sense with FF now sitting at the top of their product lineup. It would also kill the marketability of the DA Limiteds, and the DA*16-50. Any way you look at it, FF does not make much economic sense for Pentax. The idea of making a 645D makes a little more sense, since it doesn't undermine their APS-C lens lineup (which is looking more and more complete), and offers something professional grade that stands out from their competition. Those who will NOT be happy are those Pentax users who have been sitting on FA glass hoping for a FF body. They're probably going to have to content themselves with APS-C for a while (which has also been getting better and better, at least for Pentax), or switch to another brand. No regrets, buy the gear that you need - those FA Limiteds will sell quick enough!

12-15-2008, 02:40 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Probably because Canons do NOT have AF assist lamps and yet they manage to focus pretty well in low light last time I checked.

In fact, nor do Oly and Sony AFAIK. The Sony A700 and Oly E3 have the fastest AF speeds of the lot.

Plus an AF assist beam is no more useful than the flash strobe because it has a very limited range and is a pain when you forget to turn it off at a concert.

Strobe works in a funny way, every time I am trying to take a picture of people who are a few feet away from me, and the strobe is firing, my subjects end up in pictures with facial expressions like they were hit by a truck, or they just turn away because they are annoyed by the strobe. This is one neat feature indeed.

>>So before you have a go at Pentax, why not check your facts.

This is not true, NEW generations of Canon cameras are using flash to AF assist. Dedicated AF assist lamp disappeared with introduction of Canon 10D, it was present, for example in Canon D60, it was reintroduced in Canon Digital Rebel 300D, and then was dropped again.
A few of my friends who use Canon didn't like the fact that the dedicated lamp was dropped from the design. Guess they are not different from us.

And lastly, this is not an issue for concerts because stage is usually lit more then enough for even my prehistoric *istD to focus just fine.
12-15-2008, 02:41 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
If Pentax were to release a FF body, they would need to release FF lenses at the same time. A 12-24, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 would be the *minimum* requirement. Considering how long it's taken them just to release the DA*60-250, I think that's beyond their current means (and that goes for 645D too). Also, that would pull the rug out from under the upcoming DA15 and DA*55, which would no longer make sense with FF now sitting at the top of their product lineup. It would also kill the marketability of the DA Limiteds, and the DA*16-50. Any way you look at it, FF does not make much economic sense for Pentax. The idea of making a 645D makes a little more sense, since it doesn't undermine their APS-C lens lineup (which is looking more and more complete), and offers something professional grade that stands out from their competition. Those who will NOT be happy are those Pentax users who have been sitting on FA glass hoping for a FF body. They're probably going to have to content themselves with APS-C for a while (which has also been getting better and better, at least for Pentax), or switch to another brand. No regrets, buy the gear that you need - those FA Limiteds will sell quick enough!
I have all 3 FA LTDs, an FA* 200 F2.8, FA* 300 F4.5 and I am about to get one of the last 50 F1.4's. I also have a 24-90 and FA 28 F2.8, a Sigma EX105 macro and a Sigma EX 28-70 F2.8 and I have only owned Pentax for 5 years.

So do I need a FF camera? No! I just want to carry on making amazing 30" poster prints with a portable, weather proof kit I can carry all day. I can get that for $700 today.

This is seldom a photographic argument. Its just about gear lust, plain and simple.
12-15-2008, 11:52 PM   #52
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My 2 cents worth.

1. Full Frame is necessary if Hoya/Pentax want to survive (and in fact thrive)
- in a few years FF will be the normal for DSLRs

2. Expect the market to shrink to 4 manufacturers of DSLRs, one won't be olympus

3. Samsung should buy Hoya/Pentax and keep the branding and make it their optics division
- not like Samsung can't do that with their small change - they are freakin huge
(If that happens lets see a big management style change as well!)
12-16-2008, 12:12 AM   #53
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Steve, you are 100% correct on it being simple lust for the latest greatest toy. What percentage of photographers actually need 21mp FF? I'd say 2% at best.

That said, lust is a powerful sales tool. I checked out a D700 for the first time on Saturday and I was totally blown away. I've always thought my K10D was all the camera I'd ever want (body wise), but I was wrong. The D700's view finder, auto focus speed, ergonomics, and quiet operation (the shutter and focus screw drive are far quieter than Pentax's) just blew me away. Going from the D700 back to a K10/20D feels similar to stepping down from a K10/20D to the Canon Rebel. Obviously the price of the D700 is insane at the moment. There is no way I'd pay $2300 for it while you can get a D300 with virtually identical features for $1000 less, but I am now 100% sure what I want in my next camera...and another revision to the K10/20 isn't it. Do I need it? Nope, but I sure as hell want it and would be willing to spend up to $1800 or so for it.

12-16-2008, 01:20 AM   #54
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Well, I want it, but I don't see it in nearest Pentax future.
12-16-2008, 02:01 AM   #55
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It won't happen

so I won't vote....
12-16-2008, 07:48 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Steve, you are 100% correct on it being simple lust for the latest greatest toy. What percentage of photographers actually need 21mp FF? I'd say 2% at best.

That said, lust is a powerful sales tool. I checked out a D700 for the first time on Saturday and I was totally blown away. I've always thought my K10D was all the camera I'd ever want (body wise), but I was wrong. The D700's view finder, auto focus speed, ergonomics, and quiet operation (the shutter and focus screw drive are far quieter than Pentax's) just blew me away. Going from the D700 back to a K10/20D feels similar to stepping down from a K10/20D to the Canon Rebel. Obviously the price of the D700 is insane at the moment. There is no way I'd pay $2300 for it while you can get a D300 with virtually identical features for $1000 less, but I am now 100% sure what I want in my next camera...and another revision to the K10/20 isn't it. Do I need it? Nope, but I sure as hell want it and would be willing to spend up to $1800 or so for it.
Well firstly I think thats pretty sad, and secondly ALL of that was available on the D2X. It has nothing to do with FF or APS, its to do with the specification of the body.

Pentax COULD make a high performance APSC pro camera, much like the Oly E3. All the current lenses would still work and it would be a market niche thats increasingly unique. However it could still be available for a lot less than a D700.
12-16-2008, 08:49 AM   #57
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It's not sad, how many people actually need a K20D? Yet tons of people on here have them when the K100/K10/K200 would do the job just fine.

But yes, Pentax could make a nice body like the D700...and I hope they do. That would be fine by me. However, they will have to work some real magic to get an APS-C viewfinder to even come close to what I saw in the D700.
12-16-2008, 09:03 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
It's not sad, how many people actually need a K20D? Yet tons of people on here have them when the K100/K10/K200 would do the job just fine.

But yes, Pentax could make a nice body like the D700...and I hope they do. That would be fine by me. However, they will have to work some real magic to get an APS-C viewfinder to even come close to what I saw in the D700.
Try an Oly E3 some time.

And no, I dont need a K20D, or a tennis racket, but I dont spend hours on this forum going on about how Pentax should make one just because I WANT one. Pentax need to make a profit. If I dont like their gear I'll buy something else.
12-16-2008, 09:14 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
It's not sad, how many people actually need a K20D? Yet tons of people on here have them when the K100/K10/K200 would do the job just fine.
But the same can apply to the original *ist D, apart from the pathetically small buffer, a fine camera.
12-16-2008, 09:27 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
And no, I dont need a K20D, or a tennis racket, but I dont spend hours on this forum going on about how Pentax should make one just because I WANT one.
The only reason people do that is in the hope that someone at Pentax reads this site and takes note of it. Obviously everyone here hopes the K-M/2000 attracts new customers and turns a profit for them, but at the same time no one wants their needs/wants to be ignored. So people do what they can.
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