Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-22-2022, 10:28 PM - 2 Likes   #31
Moderator
Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
MarkJerling's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,391
QuoteOriginally posted by wadge22 Quote
The legendary example I know of is when Chevy released it's Nova automobile in Mexico and South America, without realizing that "no va" translates to "it doesn't go" in Spanish, and had trouble selling the vehicle as a result. How true the story is (that it actually affected sales significantly) has been called into question, but it's still fairly funny as a story.
Unfortunately another tall tale. As I understand it, in Spanish, 'nova' and 'no va' means different things. In Mexico, gasoline was sold under the Nova brand name so a car with that brand name would not have suffered poor sales at all.

06-22-2022, 10:33 PM - 1 Like   #32
Digitiser of Film
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 20,576
QuoteOriginally posted by wadge22 Quote
The legendary example I know of is when Chevy released it's Nova automobile in Mexico and South America, without realizing that "no va" translates to "it doesn't go" in Spanish, and had trouble selling the vehicle as a result. How true the story is (that it actually affected sales significantly) has been called into question, but it's still fairly funny as a story.
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Unfortunately another tall tale. As I understand it, in Spanish, 'nova' and 'no va' means different things. In Mexico, gasoline was sold under the Nova brand name so a car with that brand name would not have suffered poor sales at all.
Mark beat me to it...

Did the Chevrolet Nova Fail to Sell in Spanish-Speaking Countries? | Snopes.com
06-22-2022, 11:17 PM - 1 Like   #33
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2019
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,976
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Unfortunately another tall tale. As I understand it, in Spanish, 'nova' and 'no va' means different things. In Mexico, gasoline was sold under the Nova brand name so a car with that brand name would not have suffered poor sales at all.
You underestimate our capacity to find stuff to laugh at. But yeah, it would be a stretch.

What *is* a real laughing stock is the Mitsubishi Pajero (Masturbator in Spanish)... And, regionally, the Hyundai Kona (in Galician, that's homophone with the common slang word for, ahem, part of the womanly anatomy).

That said, it's more a "haha, funny car name" than "I shall never be caught driving this", although many of the Konas you see in Galicia have their model names removed .
06-23-2022, 03:05 AM - 1 Like   #34
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Nov 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,186
There are certain automakers who have a historic tradition of naming their models after the engine displacement.

So a model with a "250" in the name, for example, would have a 2.5l engine, and a "280" would have a 2.8l engine.

In parts of Asia, that tradition is not always followed, so a "280" model might well have a 2.5l engine because "250" is considered unlucky, so the name gets shifted to "280", which is considered fortunate...

All this said, there are components to the original concern related to intent and components related to perception.
Based on what I've read from people who understand Japanese culture and language, there does not seem to be any intent to be offensive in any of Ricoh's material (and I would be concerned if there were, as Ricoh doesn't have a history of "edgy" promotional material in that way).
But it is very possible to be offensive without any ill intent (I've certainly been on both ends of that...), and while I don't expect Ricoh to carefully scrub all of their local Japanese-focused social media for things that might machine translate poorly in markets outside of Japan, I would expect a bit more care for anything they might do that would be intended for wider distribution.

-Eric

06-24-2022, 04:03 AM - 2 Likes   #35
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Madaboutpix's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Rhine-Westphalia
Posts: 1,429
Yes, at least the translations, and possibly the original Japanese wording as well, could be construed as being sexist from a Western perspective. And if human rights are indeed universal, they should apply to everyone on the planet. Ricoh would have been better advised to leave it at "beginners", without any gender-specific references.

However, Westerners have this tendency to take for granted that everyone sees the world in the way they do, and hence must be offended by the same things. The simple fact - anecdotal evidence at best, but still - that JPT's native speaker wife can't see any condescension in the Japanese original is somewhat revealing in that respect. Also, there is some merit in low-pressure learning situations where women or girls can learn about technical matters without being surrounded by droves of male know-alls.

The world of gender sensitivity gets even more complicated if we consider pretty common behaviours and circumstances like the following:
  • sexist stereotyping persisting despite more sensitive language
  • women themselves announcing (and sometimes showing) that they are "so not technical photographers"
  • women seeking male attention by "acting a little blonder" than they would have to (an old but nonetheless quite effective way of bonding)
Of course, none of these "complications" takes away possible issues of overt or covert sexism, but us Westerners also haven't tackled all our issues of culture centrism either, and there remains an area of tension between the two. Plus, language may be a factor that can support change to some extent, but it should not be mistaken for profound and sustainable change itself, and the language shouldn't lose its function as an effective means of communication on the way there. Just my two bits, as usual, without any harm or offence intended.

Last edited by Madaboutpix; 06-24-2022 at 04:38 AM. Reason: Nuance.
06-24-2022, 05:05 AM   #36
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,178
I see a major issue on the Pentax K1 for girls. On my K1, I could verify that the UI display doesn't come with pink color setting. Blue is available for boys however . Ricoh has to think about adding pink with the next firmware update, so that girls don't feel offended.
06-24-2022, 08:48 AM   #37
Pentaxian
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,128
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I see a major issue on the Pentax K1 for girls. On my K1, I could verify that the UI display doesn't come with pink color setting. Blue is available for boys however . Ricoh has to think about adding pink with the next firmware update, so that girls don't feel offended.
Some years ago, my wife and I toured the Indianapolis Children's Museum, where they had a display of Lionel trains, including a pink train intended for girls.
A sign said that they didn't sell very many of them.
My wife's comment was "A girl who plays with trains wouldn't want something made just for her". Maybe the same is true of cameras.
Maybe a female wouldn't want a pink setting.
I know our daughter - who is now pregnant and already knows it is a girl - has obtained a 'space' baby blanket .... she doesn't want 'girlish' things.
I do suppose it might not cause anyone to reject the K-1, but don't expect it to make any friends, either.

06-24-2022, 08:06 PM   #38
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,990
I don't know, most photography forums are pretty male-dominated, and gear-specific photo activities are even more so. So I think they are probably trying to encourage women to come, since they may have been put off by gearhead male photographers in the past.
06-24-2022, 08:53 PM   #39
Moderator
Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
MarkJerling's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,391
QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
There are certain automakers who have a historic tradition of naming their models after the engine displacement.

So a model with a "250" in the name, for example, would have a 2.5l engine, and a "280" would have a 2.8l engine.

In parts of Asia, that tradition is not always followed, so a "280" model might well have a 2.5l engine because "250" is considered unlucky, so the name gets shifted to "280", which is considered fortunate...

All this said, there are components to the original concern related to intent and components related to perception.
Based on what I've read from people who understand Japanese culture and language, there does not seem to be any intent to be offensive in any of Ricoh's material (and I would be concerned if there were, as Ricoh doesn't have a history of "edgy" promotional material in that way).
But it is very possible to be offensive without any ill intent (I've certainly been on both ends of that...), and while I don't expect Ricoh to carefully scrub all of their local Japanese-focused social media for things that might machine translate poorly in markets outside of Japan, I would expect a bit more care for anything they might do that would be intended for wider distribution.

-Eric
At one time, BMW model names worked that way. 318i was a three series, 1.8l engine, 518i was a five series car, with an (underpowered) 1.8l engine, and so forth. 520, 528, 535, 730, 745, 750 etc. These days, the engine size and the model name has become completely divorced.
06-24-2022, 09:49 PM - 1 Like   #40
Senior Member
j0n4hpk's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ohio
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 293
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Yep, the Chevy Nova urban legend must have been a bad joke. My father got a 1971 Nova, 250 (meaning 250 cubic inches) in-line six cylinder rear wheel drive coupe brand new in Puerto Rico after totaling a 1955 Chevy (another classic, which was reborn as a roadster race car for a few years after by the next owner) and he never had any worries with it for close to 30 years (by the way, my Pentax LX never gave me any trouble in tropics or frigid climates from early 1980s until around 2020. Call it LX+XL ).

Last edited by j0n4hpk; 06-24-2022 at 09:59 PM.
06-25-2022, 01:10 AM   #41
Pentaxian
Lord Lucan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: South Wales
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,900
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
At one time, BMW model names worked that way. 318i was a three series, 1.8l engine, 518i was a five series car ... and so forth. These days, the engine size and the model name has become completely divorced.
Same with photographic flash units. The Guide number in metres at 100 ISO was often part of the name, such as with the Pentax AF 200T, 280T, Sunpak G4500, etc except they added one or two zeros on the end. They didn't cheat by using the GN when at maximum zoom either.
06-25-2022, 04:30 AM - 1 Like   #42
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Nov 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,186
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
At one time, BMW model names worked that way. 318i was a three series, 1.8l engine, 518i was a five series car, with an (underpowered) 1.8l engine, and so forth. 520, 528, 535, 730, 745, 750 etc. These days, the engine size and the model name has become completely divorced.
Mercedes did it too for a while, and I think they were the first ones I read about changing the name for the Chinese market, but I didn't want to pick on the Germans

I don't know how close the number has to be to be considered "not right", though.

I have a Honda CL350 with a 327cc engine...

-Eric
06-25-2022, 04:58 AM   #43
Pentaxian
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,128
QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
I don't know, most photography forums are pretty male-dominated, and gear-specific photo activities are even more so. So I think they are probably trying to encourage women to come, since they may have been put off by gearhead male photographers in the past.
Back to the alleged subject of this thread, are these walks ‘gear-specific’?
06-25-2022, 06:02 AM - 1 Like   #44
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,817
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Back to the alleged subject of this thread, are these walks ‘gear-specific’?
It’s specific to the model. You pay 2,200 yen. There are 8 customers and 2 Ricoh Imaging staff. You have a 30-minute explanation of the camera (in this case the K-70) and the route. Then you go on the walk for about two hours, taking RAW images. Finally, the staff guide you through the process of using the in-camera RAW processing tools. It’s about three hours in total. I was interested in the previous one they did in Yokohama for the K-3 III, but the timing wasn’t right for me.

Im really curious who the staff are - sales staff or engineers.
06-25-2022, 06:27 AM - 1 Like   #45
csa
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
csa's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montana mountains
Posts: 10,133
"My wife's comment was "A girl who plays with trains wouldn't want something made just for her". Maybe the same is true of cameras."

This is how I feel. I don't want or need a "pink" piece of equipment, as this simply shows (to me) that you are a beginner. I've been in many male dominated areas, flying, motorcycles, etc. I used the same equipment as the men did. Same with all my camera equipment; it's all black, not pink!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
beginners, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, women
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clackers' Beginners Tip 15: Why Black and White? clackers Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 15 04-10-2022 07:38 AM
10 Useful Digital Photography Tutorials for Beginners (& not so beginners) interested_observer General Photography 2 04-24-2014 07:50 AM
Real men(&women) eat meat, swear and use manual flashes... philbaum Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 19 08-11-2011 11:42 AM
Men from certain cultures and the way they treat women magkelly General Talk 21 05-11-2011 04:39 AM
took K-5 and DA* 200/2.8 on a Big 12 Women's game... luke0622 Pentax K-5 & K-5 II 30 02-22-2011 03:10 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:08 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top