[texandrews]

I will say that I have not met many female photographers---if any, actually---as interested in such a geeky way in photography equipment as many male photographers are. Interestingly, most of the male pros I know are actually most interested in lighting equipment, when equipment is a topic of discussion.

[Serkevan]

I will say that I have not met many female photographers---if any, actually---as interested in such a geeky way in photography equipment as many male photographers are. Interestingly, most of the male pros I know are actually most interested in lighting equipment, when equipment is a topic of discussion.

My ex is happier gear-wise, I'm sure - she cares about the camera's workings only as long as it translates to better photos. This is an attitude I've found often in women, not only in photography; the mechanical aspects of any craft are largely ignored in favour of the artistic ones, as long as they aren't needed, and I don't mean "needed" the way some DPR users think they need fps, AF, MP, and what have you lol.

At this point, however, and happily for myself, I've mostly stopped caring about figures of merit for lenses, megapixels, or whatever. Do I like the result, yes or no? Yes, good. No, find a lens that makes prettier pictures. Ignore any mention of LP/mm as long as it's not red-flag levels of low, yadda yadda.
(Coincidentally, my parents got me a couple photography books -one of which focuses on portraiture- and I'm kinda looking into getting a bit more lighting equipment...)

[TwoUptons]

It’s specific to the model. You pay 2,200 yen. There are 8 customers and 2 Ricoh Imaging staff. You have a 30-minute explanation of the camera (in this case the K-70) and the route. Then you go on the walk for about two hours, taking RAW images. Finally, the staff guide you through the process of using the in-camera RAW processing tools. It’s about three hours in total. I was interested in the previous one they did in Yokohama for the K-3 III, but the timing wasn’t right for me.

Im really curious who the staff are - sales staff or engineers.

That sounds like a lot of fun, actually...

In my ideal world, I'd want staff somewhere in-between sales and engineering... people who know the gear but also really understand how it interacts with the user.

But, yeah, I've always been bothered by the "shrink it and pink it" approach to women's gear.
Lower seat on a motorcycle or more appropriate frame geometry on a bike, sure... "decal kit"? uh, no...

-Eric

[reh321]

That sounds like a lot of fun, actually...

In my ideal world, I'd want staff somewhere in-between sales and engineering... people who know the gear but also really understand how it interacts with the user.

But, yeah, I've always been bothered by the "shrink it and pink it" approach to women's gear.
Lower seat on a motorcycle or more appropriate frame geometry on a bike, sure... "decal kit"? uh, no...

-Eric

I had envisioned talking about possible artistic photos. Either marketers or engineers could do that …. but if they’ll just talk about processing in the camera instead of processing in a computer - no thanks, I’ll gladly give up my envy of those who do live in Japan.

[BarryE]

I will say that I have not met many female photographers---if any, actually---as interested in such a geeky way in photography equipment as many male photographers are. Interestingly, most of the male pros I know are actually most interested in lighting equipment, when equipment is a topic of discussion.

Yup, once the gear (any major brand) is bought and understood, the differences in the final images are how the light is manipulated, often with nuanced use of lighting modifiers.

I spent 4 years selling photos at many shows/exhibitions etc. Every time I was asked what gear I used it was by a male. I really can't remember being asked the question by a woman. When asked about gear I usually just said something like it was irrelevant (politely) - sometimes this actually caused a deal of friction and almost anger. At first my reaction was to be shocked, but then, as I was being 'forced', I just said Pentax. That usually had them shuffling off muttering quietly things I was supposed to hear

It was a pleasure to be able to discuss the aesthetics of an image. Composition. Even printing and framing, but this was rare.

Another marked difference was the attitude to any form of collaboration and mutual assistance/support amongst exhibitors (and visitors). No prizes who were the most competitive (generally). Camera clubs seem to be just as bad, so any attempt to redress the balance from a male dominated pastime/profession is welcome, clumsy though this marketing message may (?) have been.

[reh321]

Yup, once the gear (any major brand) is bought and understood, the differences in the final images are how the light is manipulated, often with nuanced use of lighting modifiers.
.......
It was a pleasure to be able to discuss the aesthetics of an image. Composition. Even printing and framing, but this was rare.

Six years ago, my wife and I touristed in Quebec City. As we walked up from the river, I suddenly halted, took this shot, then continued.

I happened to have a Pentax K-30 at the time, and I could have taken this photo with almost any camera, but to me the woman photographing the Chateau Frontenac is what made that shot "special" - a second earlier or later, and that shot would not have existed. To me, personally, seeing the shot and taking it when it is there - and selecting the right perspective {when that is appropriate} - are at least important as PP is. I remember the day as cloudy; photographing into bright sunlight would have created its own problems.

[thibs]

I see a major issue on the Pentax K1 for girls. On my K1, I could verify that the UI display doesn't come with pink color setting. Blue is available for boys however . Ricoh has to think about adding pink with the next firmware update, so that girls don't feel offended.

Yeah, talking about sexism....

[leekil]

Back to the alleged subject of this thread, are these walks ‘gear-specific’?

They are gear-specific in that it is Pentax-brand oriented, rather than just a general "photo walk".

[Nakedgun]

TLDR.

Remember this: people choose to be offended.
Unlike some posters, I do not wear a "I dare you to offend me in some way!" panic button on my sleeve.


.

[kwb]

This is going to be long.

The original language in question is "初心者の方や女性の方でも安心".
初心者の方=a beginner or beginners.
女性の方=a woman or women.
でも=sometimes like an adverb "even", sometimes totally different.
安心=state or act of not having to worry, nothing to be bothered with, feeling safe and comfortable.

Ricoh is saying "this is a friendly environment for anybody". If you twist people's arms to give you a direct translation about でも, some will say "even beginners and women" but that doesn't mean "even if you're a beginner or woman who don't usually belong to this kind of thing". It's more like

"Even if you have some hesitations as a beginner or a woman, don't worry, this is a welcoming place for you and anybody else."

If you REALLY want to have a glimpse of social aspect of this, google 女性でも安心 and you'll find hundreds of things that are supposedly friendly and worry-free for women. Apartment with great security, disposal business that sends people to haul your heavy items away, gym with female instructors and spacious clean shower/locker/change room, you can find pretty much anything that is advertised or reviewed as 女性でも安心. (BTW these are real examples found by googling.)

They don't mean that women are usually unwelcome/unworthy/inferior. If they do they'll lose customers. Rather, 女性でも安心 is perceived, at least in the eyes of advertisers, as an added benefit which may attract women more than men. Maybe something is inconvenient or intimidating or unsafe or just not worth it for whatever reason for a substantial subset of women when these same things are considered OK by most men. (There are thousands of male-specific ads too, but 安心 isn't used as often when specifically targeting men.)

For example, the advertiser of that apartment is likely thinking that "you won't be bothered by stalkers, aggressive sales agents and thugs" is a great differentiator and some women will prefer this apartment over competitor's. Therefore, even though an added security is great for me too as a man in his 50's, they have to add 女性でも安心 to get these women's attention.

Getting back to Ricoh, why do they say 安心? What's there to worry about, it's just a photo walk, right? I can only guess, so let me make things up below.

First, Ricoh assumes that beginners (female and male alike) are probably worried about a lot of things. What if the lecturer sees your most basic questions ("but what does ISO mean?") as a hindrance/distraction to others. Maybe you're worried to find that your pictures are so much inferior to others'. Maybe a self-proclaimed "experienced" participant wants to teach you why your picture and technique and everything sucks. Either way, not worth the bother.

Second, Ricoh knows that participants are going to be mostly middle aged and older men. And Ricoh is probably aware of the phenomenon of mansplaining. Some of them might try to hit on a female participant, which might be an added annoyance. Not worth the bother.

Third, Ricoh knows that some just categorically equate women and beginners, therefore women are likely targeted by mansplainers and beginner-bashers at the same time. Not worth the bother, doubly.

Assuming that having fun is a focus of this event, Ricoh wanted to say "hey, don't worry, this is a nice friendly event for everybody, we promise you a safe environment, you're welcome regardless of who you are". That's the spirit of this and that's why many (I say most) are OK with this.

Well, that was a long preface!
My opinion about this is, unless Ricoh specifically explains why something is good for women and why something else is good for beginners, there's no denying that it sounds a bit like women are categorically put into the same bin as beginners. There's no need for that, they could have just written どなたでも安心 or "friendly/safe/welcoming for anybody" and be done with that.

From an "official" Pentax posting :-

"PENTAX Walk in Asakusa" will be held this Saturday
Spaces available now due to cancellations.
Deadline is tomorrow 6/23 (Wednesday) at 1:00 pm

It's a relaxed workshop using the entry model PENTAX K-70, so even beginners or women, feel free to participate.


see PENTAX Walk in Asakusa June 25 (Sat) | PENTAX official for the original!


I wonder if this is a mis-interpretation or does it actually reflect different attitudes to those we have come to expect in the "west"

[JPT]

This is going to be long.

The original language in question is "初心者の方や女性の方でも安心".
初心者の方=a beginner or beginners.
女性の方=a woman or women.
でも=sometimes like an adverb "even", sometimes totally different.
安心=state or act of not having to worry, nothing to be bothered with, feeling safe and comfortable.

Ricoh is saying "this is a friendly environment for anybody". If you twist people's arms to give you a direct translation about でも, some will say "even beginners and women" but that doesn't mean "even if you're a beginner or woman who don't usually belong to this kind of thing". It's more like

"Even if you have some hesitations as a beginner or a woman, don't worry, this is a welcoming place for you and anybody else."

If you REALLY want to have a glimpse of social aspect of this, google 女性でも安心 and you'll find hundreds of things that are supposedly friendly and worry-free for women. Apartment with great security, disposal business that sends people to haul your heavy items away, gym with female instructors and spacious clean shower/locker/change room, you can find pretty much anything that is advertised or reviewed as 女性でも安心. (BTW these are real examples found by googling.)

They don't mean that women are usually unwelcome/unworthy/inferior. If they do they'll lose customers. Rather, 女性でも安心 is perceived, at least in the eyes of advertisers, as an added benefit which may attract women more than men. Maybe something is inconvenient or intimidating or unsafe or just not worth it for whatever reason for a substantial subset of women when these same things are considered OK by most men. (There are thousands of male-specific ads too, but 安心 isn't used as often when specifically targeting men.)

For example, the advertiser of that apartment is likely thinking that "you won't be bothered by stalkers, aggressive sales agents and thugs" is a great differentiator and some women will prefer this apartment over competitor's. Therefore, even though an added security is great for me too as a man in his 50's, they have to add 女性でも安心 to get these women's attention.

Getting back to Ricoh, why do they say 安心? What's there to worry about, it's just a photo walk, right? I can only guess, so let me make things up below.

First, Ricoh assumes that beginners (female and male alike) are probably worried about a lot of things. What if the lecturer sees your most basic questions ("but what does ISO mean?") as a hindrance/distraction to others. Maybe you're worried to find that your pictures are so much inferior to others'. Maybe a self-proclaimed "experienced" participant wants to teach you why your picture and technique and everything sucks. Either way, not worth the bother.

Second, Ricoh knows that participants are going to be mostly middle aged and older men. And Ricoh is probably aware of the phenomenon of mansplaining. Some of them might try to hit on a female participant, which might be an added annoyance. Not worth the bother.

Third, Ricoh knows that some just categorically equate women and beginners, therefore women are likely targeted by mansplainers and beginner-bashers at the same time. Not worth the bother, doubly.

Assuming that having fun is a focus of this event, Ricoh wanted to say "hey, don't worry, this is a nice friendly event for everybody, we promise you a safe environment, you're welcome regardless of who you are". That's the spirit of this and that's why many (I say most) are OK with this.

Well, that was a long preface!
My opinion about this is, unless Ricoh specifically explains why something is good for women and why something else is good for beginners, there's no denying that it sounds a bit like women are categorically put into the same bin as beginners. There's no need for that, they could have just written どなたでも安心 or "friendly/safe/welcoming for anybody" and be done with that.

A great explanation. I kind of feel sorry you had to invest so much time in writing it, but it's spot on.

It's undeniable that the photo business/hobby is dominated by older mails who like to seem knowledgeable. This could be off-putting to some, so Ricoh wanted to make to clear this is going to be fun for everyone. I think I would written it differently myself, but they had the best of intentions.

Link to the tweet about the event:
https://twitter.com/ricohimaging_jp/status/1541013445117878272?s=20&t=VqK1QHe_asiySPqND9CquA

The even happened at the (very, very hot) weekend. Looking at the tweet, it seems that two of the eight attendees were women, which is not bad.

Referring to reh321's question, this walk was pitched as a how-to event, teaching people how to use the camera that they may not even own yet. It is not so much about the artistic aspects. However, of course attendees are out there taking pictures, so they are learning about photography.

Ricoh has many events that are more about the artistic aspects of photography delivered through their Photo Academy. The latest one was announced last Friday, and it is to be delivered by a female pro.
??????????????????? | ?????????????? | ????????????RICOH IMAGING

What I think is really great about these walks is that their staff actually accompany real users while they are using the cameras, which then gives them insights they can pass on to the design team. They've been doing this for years with the GR events too.

[RobA_Oz]

TLDR.

Remember this: people choose to be offended.
Unlike some posters, I do not wear a "I dare you to offend me in some way!" panic button on my sleeve.


.

Well, maybe. The concept of offence has been somewhat weaponised in contemporary culture wars, most of which (in my opinion) are fairly contrived to serve a partisan cause of some sort.

What is important is to get all the relevant facts before forming an opinion, let alone commenting. In this case, the sometimes fraught issue of language translation seems to be at the heart of the problem. Had the initial translation to English been shown to be accurate in the intent of the original Japanese text, then it seems to me that women in particular might have had good reason to be offended. It seems, though, that things were not that cut and dried, as the most recent contribution by kwb indicates.

[reh321]

What I think is really great about these walks is that their staff actually accompany real users while they are using the cameras, which then gives them insights they can pass on to the design team. They've been doing this for years with the GR events too.

Apparently, it was mostly about modifying how the in-camera software ‘develops’ JPEGs - definitely not for me.
I set up my KP when I got it 2-1/2 years ago, then left parameters untouched, until I made some gentle changes recently based on the minor changes I’ve been making using ‘gimp’ on the resulting JPEGs.

[Ronald Oakes]

"even... women" Pentax, yes.

BTW....that's Rosie the Riveter..... She lives here in Sun City !

Every fourth of July she was at an event right across the road from me at the Rec center called Ring the Bell..... Don't know if she will still be there this year. Covid shut it down 2 years in a row. She is well known here.

---------- Post added 06-30-22 at 20:34 ----------

From an "official" Pentax posting :-

"PENTAX Walk in Asakusa" will be held this Saturday
Spaces available now due to cancellations.
Deadline is tomorrow 6/23 (Wednesday) at 1:00 pm

It's a relaxed workshop using the entry model PENTAX K-70, so even beginners or women, feel free to participate.


see PENTAX Walk in Asakusa June 25 (Sat) | PENTAX official for the original!


I wonder if this is a mis-interpretation or does it actually reflect different attitudes to those we have come to expect in the "west"

Gotta luv Pentax for stepping in it again.....oh my.....face palm !!!!

[35mmfilmfan]

(No Emoji for 'Naïve' - sorry)

Surely any equipment should suit the user, not the gender of the user ? I've seen many 'males' (I presume) who could do with a little, shall we say, 'upper body support' for their 'moobs' !