[Kunzite]

I recall one of my studio photography colleagues stunned expression when I stated this fact, to further this point I placed my D-FA 50mm f/1.4 right next to her 50mm f/1.4 Opera. I think Pentax could make a killing as a third party lens manufacturer.

Hmm... nope. There are two big things going against that idea:
- they can't reuse the current designs, they'd need mirrorless lenses. There might be the occasional exception, but you can't "make a killing" while your lenses are more complex, larger, heavier and with worse specs (max aperture).
- there's no reason to believe Pentax would succeed where Tokina failed. Even the "Opera", if I'm not mistaken it sold poorly (likely because of the Sigma; and here's the thing: the Sigma isn't better).

Don't look at Sigma; they are uniquely positioned as the main third-party lens maker. Look at Tokina. Think of a "third-party lens manufacturing" Pentax not as a dominant player, but as an insignificant one, struggling to survive... and most likely, rebadging Viltrox lenses.
Pentax (Ricoh Imaging) is doing a better job than we're giving them credit for.

[biz-engineer]

Pentax (Ricoh Imaging) is doing a better job than we're giving them credit for.

I've always seen Pentax is the engineering brand , not able to sell the product to maximum sales potential. OTOH, Pentax is a century old camera business , having deep know-how in making cameras and lenses, they even survived WWII. Wouldn't Pentax make more money if they agreed that Canon sell Pentax camera and Pentax lenses under the Canon brand name? Pentax would do the engineering work and Canon would do the sales, Pentax revenues would multiply by 20 in no time. My local camera shop will sell anything if it's written Canon on it, really anything, the Canon label is the deal maker, Pentax label is the deal breaker. The brand name is like a code to open the door: Canon = Yes, Pentax = No. I stick Canon on my K1, Oh yes Oh yes it sells it sells!

[repaap]

At first glance it does not seem that there is anything more than just getting more in detail about what will be happening with renewal of how Pentax will develope from now on their system To me it does look quite open approach. Last updates has been very nice and they seem to be developing things even further. So why all moaning. To me it seems that from sertain persons(similar pattern every time) they just unload pathetic things they have gatehred over tha couple yrs, and loads those off to any news section. With nothing to build up on.


To me it does sound great that they are developing new cameras like this -ofcourse they will have last word with what is coming up next in final stage- but all in all when you make cameras for your user group, they will be interested and it will be seen from 'outside' too.

about mirrorless - mirror debate. Get over it. Buy mirrorless and enjoy your life, and please stop trolling Pentaxians.

I know that there are several people who have done it, and nothing wrong with it, blaming Pentax not to bring you MILC is funny. I have bought my self a Canon R5C in order to get amazing video in this form factor(and that Dual FE RF 5.2 lens)I have had BMPCC 4k and Panasonic S5 before it and found them lacking. I have K-3III also and my beloved Pentax lenses which I can still use with my new Canon(buying cine lenses for it later on). K-3III still holds it's own and I can take both of them on gig if I go shooting. K-3III has very nice ISO and DR for it's size and AF is not on par, but it is pretty close to Canon (I don't have RF od PLM lenses yet). Really.

If that K-1III will have similar performance to K-3III, next K-1 will be very nice. And it will have magnificent OVF.


Will I be buying it, even if I now have Canon. Yes.

will I be selling off my Pentax because of my new tool and jumping ship. no.
am I still going to buy new Pentax lenses, yes.(but also selling off some of my not so much used lenses)


why - optical VF.

even if EVF is very handy, it does have it's downsides too(even with this new EVF from this canon) as well as OVF has. But it is also about how the camera feels in hand and how you experience photography. Knowing that camera(K-3III) will AF precisely and fast enough for almost anything, is just icing on the cake.


Dunno really what has been the problem with Pentax latest products in terms of price. When I'm looking at Canon for example, even their old EF -L lenses, pentax is not really that expensive, even at there at Finland especially if you compare the new RF vs new DFA lenses. Like, really. I quess Finland is not that expensive after all...and this is just one example and I'm not going to dive deeper in to this since it has been 'discussed' several times over and then some. All in all, happy that Ricoh/Pentax is still developing new stuff and also developing the way to be in touch with their clients even in these hard times.

[Jean Poitiers]

Thanks to all for the correction on my error concerning the Pentax-Tokina 50/1.4 ... my bad.

That said, it still does not change the reality that it was the only Pentax lens featured in a 48-page special section of the most prominent photo mag in France.

Again, no recently released 21mm ... no "Limited"s at all ... nothing else featured which is a cold hard fact which cannot be ignored.

This is not good news, and everyone here on this forum needs to be screaming at Pentax management concerning its current strategy. This is not going to be sustainable in the long term. Pentax is losing again more ground (on many fronts) ... the example here is its brand presence and visibility in a major photo magazine.

Yeah, this is another rant because I still care enough to keep pushing on the alarm button. I still have my beloved K-5 and an aperture block failure K-30 plus my K mount manual lenses ... still shoot them from time to time.

I want the game to change in favor of Pentax, but I cannot see that happening given the current strategy.

[StigVidar]

That said, it still does not change the reality that it was the only Pentax lens featured in a 48-page special section of the most prominent photo mag in France.

Again, no recently released 21mm ... no "Limited"s at all ... nothing else featured which is a cold hard fact which cannot be ignored.

This is not good news, and everyone here on this forum needs to be screaming at Pentax management concerning its current strategy. This is not going to be sustainable in the long term. Pentax is losing again more ground (on many fronts) ... the example here is its brand presence and visibility in a major photo magazine.

I fully agree with you. Pentax can make the best lenses and cameras, but they will not sell if nobody know.

[thibs]

Windmill...

No, plain FUD imo.

[lemono]

Hmm... nope. There are two big things going against that idea:
- they can't reuse the current designs, they'd need mirrorless lenses. There might be the occasional exception, but you can't "make a killing" while your lenses are more complex, larger, heavier and with worse specs (max aperture).
- there's no reason to believe Pentax would succeed where Tokina failed. Even the "Opera", if I'm not mistaken it sold poorly (likely because of the Sigma; and here's the thing: the Sigma isn't better).

Don't look at Sigma; they are uniquely positioned as the main third-party lens maker. Look at Tokina. Think of a "third-party lens manufacturing" Pentax not as a dominant player, but as an insignificant one, struggling to survive... and most likely, rebadging Viltrox lenses.
Pentax (Ricoh Imaging) is doing a better job than we're giving them credit for.

At first, opera50 sold well. But with the release of Z and RF systems, opera50 soon became unpopular.
Tokina's poor support for adapter is also an important reason.

[jersey]

Can Pentax survive on a few rich old Japanese buyers? When they die... what next?

That was mentioned not once, not twice here. And I think most people, who are old (some are even rich :P) do not really care about it. They do not care about what will happen to Pentax after they die. They want their toys now, for cheap and that's it. If it means Pentax will die few years after their dead - ok, who cares.

And I think recent changes in sales style, marketing is addressing this point. Pentax is kicking not paying "customers" out and makes place for young ones with money who "good old fashioned engineering" instead next plastic toy. It starts to address same customers who are not watching for Apple Watch, but at Zenith, Chopard or Omega analog watches. Maybe not that level of finances (yet?), but similar customer base.

If I am spending a lot I want it on a system that perhaps supports me more, AF, video etc etc. I need to feel like I am deriving more value out of that higher price tag.

Will you use it? I would not mind Pentax removing video from K-3/3 for example. I do not do videos, and even if for whatever reason I need to film something I use smartphone. I feel great value in K-3/3 when I hold it in my hand. Not because of features, but build quality, all the small details, knobs etc that are part of this camera. Value and quality are not defined only by amount of features camera has.

[Jean Poitiers]

@Jean Poitiers; ...

Did the magazine claim the lens is made by Tokina? I believe that the lens is a Ricoh Imaging design. Regardless, it would be useful to know the reason that the magazine neglected Pentax lenses in general in their Guide.

I think that you prefer mirrorless cameras, which is fine. However, that doesn't seem to be the path that Ricoh Imaging is on at the moment.

- Craig

Hi there,

No, the Tokina error is all mine ... and yes, it would be useful to know why "Chasseur d'Images" only included one Pentax lens. But to me, it's kind of obvious.

I use Fuji mirrorless and several DSLRs (my K-5 & K-30, plus now with a Nikon Df). I enjoy both viewfinders, plus see the advantages and disadvantages of both systems.

I just think that Pentax has made a huge strategic error not to position itself somewhere in the mirrorless domain ... why not have a few good DSLRs and a few or at least one mirrorless option that could support a full frame sensor and later on an APS-C which is what Canon & Nikon did. I just do not understand this course of (in)action.

[jersey]

BTW - what happened with Pentax Forum interview with Ricoh? Dead, alive, I missed it?

[Rondec]

I have noted prices vary a lot between countries. Just jump on Pentax.com.au and see some of these prices... how the K-1ii is $3400AUD 6yrs after its initial release is beyond me... Or... you can buy the Limited versions with fancy hotshoe covers and paint work for a mere... $4100AUD

So yeh, that's kinda the point, if a K-1III came out... I'd be too scared to look at the price based on this!

Times have definitely changed in the last 5yrs. Not saying Pentax are not worth their price tag, I'm just saying their prices are now matching competitors but many feel the value is significantly better on the competitor side of things. I think many of us knew that Pentax were not the be all and end all as a camera system a few years back, but we didn't mind if it didn't hit this mark or missed that one, we know it had value and some quirky features that uniquely mattered to us (pixelshift, astrotracer etc). Once the price moves up that perceived value drops. A DSLR in 2022 priced the same as the competition is just going to majorly struggle, period.

When all the loyal fan base is dead, what then? Seriously... no one likes to think like that but its true. These Pentax plans all feel very niche and short term. In 2016 with the K-1 it felt like all they had to do was keep on and improve the bread and butter stuff, but that arena massively shifted in a very short space of time. Sony killed Pentax

Obviously I don't live in Australia. Looking at Google, it says lowest price of the K-3 III in Australia is 2700, the Canon R7 is 2300, and the Fuji XH2-S is 4200. The D500 can still be purchased new down under for 2600.

The thing is Eddy, if you look at gear that is recent release, nearly all of it is moving upscale in terms of price -- and moving there very quickly. Comparing gear purchased a few years ago isn't terribly helpful. It used to be that prices were pretty static from one version of the camera to the next -- a K-5 released for similar price to the K-3 -- and within 6 to 9 months the price would drop pretty steeply. That isn't really true any more. The release prices for every brand are higher now, entry levels are going away, and the prices are being discounted in nearly the same way that they were.

Singling out Pentax when the other brands are doing the same thing with their newer products is not being honest about where the market seems to be heading.

[biz-engineer]

That said, it still does not change the reality that it was the only Pentax lens featured in a 48-page special section of the most prominent photo mag in France.

Sorry, but with all due respect, I think you don't get it with Pentax. Please allow me to tell you. You are not going to see many new lenses for Pentax K simply because new lenses aren't needed when staying with DSLR type cameras. And there are hundreds of FA , F and M lenses available from many years ago, new lenses are not needed. And Fuji, let me tell you, Fuji release a lot of stuff, but the newer models are 95% the same as the older models, and every time the price is increased by 15% compared to the previous model. You seem to like that, a lot of small incremental releases it's reassuring (or exciting) for you.
Camera business is simple to understand. Each camera brand has one image processor, one set of color rendering, same clock system, same power system, variable amount of buffer memory, and a lot of refactoring. So , basically, any Fuji X of GF system has the same guts, frame rates and megapixels vary in opposite directions around the Mpixels per second data bus that camera have in their guts.The plastic used for camera buttons the same for all Fuji cameras from $400 model to $10000 models, designed by the same hardware and software engineers. Same Kaizen approach for Canon, Nikon, same for Sony... it's all the same stuff that takes pictures. In other words, regardless the camera brand, once a camera system is fully developed, there isn't much new to do, just let the cash come in. If you need a lot of changes and excitement, I would recommend to switch brand frequently, then you have to buy new lenses often, such that you can play with new tools, and that's cool. Otherwise, stay with the same brand and you have to cope with the boredom of having a camera system complete that just works , and you have to have fun with taking pictures, which is more effort than using a credit card.

[gatorguy]

New information about president interview: Interview with Ricoh Imaging president Noboru Akahane - Pentax Rumors

Simply another not necessarily reliable and accurate Google Japanese to English translation of the same report here.

[Jean Poitiers]

Sorry, but with all due respect, I think you don't get it with Pentax. Please allow me to tell you. You are not going to see many new lenses for Pentax K simply because new lenses aren't needed when staying with DSLR type cameras. And there are hundreds of FA , F and M lenses available from many years ago, new lenses are not needed. And Fuji, let me tell you, Fuji release a lot of stuff, but the newer models are 95% the same as the older models, and every time the price is increased by 15% compared to the previous model. You seem to like that, a lot of small incremental releases it's reassuring (or exciting) for you.
Camera business is simple to understand. Each camera brand has one image processor, one set of color rendering, same clock system, same power system, variable amount of buffer memory, and a lot of refactoring. So , basically, any Fuji X of GF system has the same guts, frame rates and megapixels vary in opposite directions around the Mpixels per second data bus that camera have in their guts.The plastic used for camera buttons the same for all Fuji cameras from $400 model to $10000 models, designed by the same hardware and software engineers. Same Kaizen approach for Canon, Nikon, same for Sony... it's all the same stuff that takes pictures. In other words, regardless the camera brand, once a camera system is fully developed, there isn't much new to do, just let the cash come in. If you need a lot of changes and excitement, I would recommend to switch brand frequently, then you have to buy new lenses often, such that you can play with new tools, and that's cool. Otherwise, stay with the same brand and you have to cope with the boredom of having a camera system complete that just works , and you have to have fun with taking pictures, which is more effort than using a credit card.

OK.

"You don't get it with Pentax" ?! Really ... with my 18K+ posts on this forum with over 7K "likes" ... yup, I know zero about Pentax. It's also so evident in my Pentax gear list description, which is immediately below all my post signatures. And just FYI, I was once asked if I would be interested in being a Moderator on this forum. I had to unfortunately decline due to my time constraints at that moment.

You write essentially that there is "no need" for new lenses for a DSLR system, so one could ask why the need for the new 21mm f/2.4, which was released over a year after it was announced? Why bother updating anything in the Pentax line using such rational?

I really don't care if one needs to attack Fuji or any other brand ... I am not attacking the Pentax brand. I am raising my concerns about the viability of the current business strategy, which excludes any mirrorless offering(s).

I have the right to disagree with the current strategy, which I strongly believe is an enormous error. Time will tell which way may have been the best direction.

In my opinion, Pentax in the (near) future will be seen (by newer generations entering the sector of "enthusiast and/or semi-pro" camera market) as a "has-been" brand embracing only "seemingly outdated" OVF technology.

I will be 60 next year, and I am in three local photo clubs (one of which I am the President). As a majority, there are no "younger" members of these clubs that (still) use DSLRs ... and I cannot see many born after 2000 embracing DSLR technology. They are of a pure digital age, and thus IMHO the user base of Pentax will not expand under the current strategy ... and as time marches on, that same Pentax user base will diminish to a point where the brand can no longer be economically sustainable.

Today's business world is dominated by short-term financial return ratios, which don't care if the product has an OVF or an EVF.

Maybe hard realities to be faced here, but someone needs to be a devil's advocate ... and maybe pull (a lot) on the fire bell cord. Enough said.

[biz-engineer]

In my opinion, Pentax in the (near) future will be seen (by newer generations entering the sector of "enthusiast and/or semi-pro" camera market) as a "has-been" brand embracing only "seemingly outdated" OVF technology.

Well, your recent posts surprised me very much. I remember you posting nice pictures in dedicated threads, K1 or else. And all of a sudden I read your posts showing strong discontent about Pentax. Pentax strategy hasn't radically changed overnight, Pentax has had 5% market share or less for more than a decade, Pentax's been considered as lagging behind in autofocus and other things for more than a decade, and yet they kept going. Today's Pentax is just continuation of yesterday's Pentax, adapting business size, development budgets and retail strategy to the smaller camera market. The camera market in 2022 is 10 times smaller than in 2012, ten times smaller! it seems natural that Pentax releases 10 times less products in a 10 times smaller market, or else it would be impossible to make any money our of a camera business.

---------- Post added 07-07-22 at 14:26 ----------

You write essentially that there is "no need" for new lenses for a DSLR system, so one could ask why the need for the new 21mm f/2.4

You seem to be referring to Chasseur d'Image and its evaluation of 48 lenses. Unless developing a new lens mount, such number of new lenses is never going to happen for Pentax. The DFA 21 is one lens, and in there should be one or two more lenses coming up, based on the roadmap, but not much more since the K mount is much much more mature than most mirrorless mounts.

I was recently looking into DPR camera section, counting the number of new camera releases each year, from all brands, I took a pen and paper , wrote down the number of new camera model for each brand, and I could observe that the number of cameras releases has strongly decreased in recent years, it's not only Pentax, it's for all brands. Pentax being smaller, the number of releases has been proportionally smaller. In 2007/2008, Pentax released 15 new camera models, Canon released 20 new camera models, Nikon 20 new camera models. In 2021, Pentax released 1 new camera, Canon released 1 new camera, Nikon 2 cameras.