Updated Roadmap: New 100mm Macro Coming

**Madaboutpix** · 07-31-2022, 11:19 PM

Now, this is excellent news indeed. Based on what little we know so far, and the long line of competent macros in the K Mount, I trust it will be a great lens. Let's see if they will implement 2:1 magnification, which would take its specs to what the Laowa competition is offering, and I also hope they will manage to keep the price in the affordable three-digit range. If the latter should be the case, I will certainly add the new macro to my wish list.

pimpim · 07-31-2022, 11:55 PM

a change in coating would not help a lot in purple fringing, so is this glass with different diffraction? Would be good if they're propagating that glass to other products.
Good news that they're developing by step by step perfecting these niches, that's exactly what Pentax should do now.

Fogel70 · 08-01-2022, 12:02 AM

Pentax 100 mm macro lens is one oft their oldest optical formula still in use that has not seen an major update, so it is good to see a new design coming.

I already have a number of macro lenses that I'm satisfied with, so I do not need a new one anytime soon.
But a modern designed macro with weather sealing would be nice. If it also has a built in AF-motor with a focus range switch it would be great, and more useful for other photography than macro.

---------- Post added 01-08-22 at 09:40 ----------

Originally posted by pimpim

a change in coating would not help a lot in purple fringing, so is this glass with different diffraction? Would be good if they're propagating that glass to other products.
Good news that they're developing by step by step perfecting these niches, that's exactly what Pentax should do now.

If it is brand new optical design it will have a lot more lens elements than the current old design.
Probably at least 12-15 lens elements, for better correction of purple fringing and other optical aberrations.

AfterPentax Mark II · 08-01-2022, 01:35 AM

Maybe this explains why in Europe they are giving the 100mm Macro away free when buying a K-1 Mark II Body. Getting rid of old stock? A silent AF 100mm Macro, I think I am in for a new lens.... I still use the old F 100mm Macro, which is heavy and noisy.

Sandy Hancock · 08-01-2022, 01:42 AM - **1 Like**

Now that I spend a lot of my macro time shooting images of my home-made knives, less purple fringing will be very welcome.

I'll be an early adopter of this one.

D1N0 · 08-01-2022, 02:15 AM - **3 Likes**

About time too. The optical formula of the current lens still stems from the Pentax-F 100mm F2.8 from 1987 so that's 35 years old.

house · 08-01-2022, 02:26 AM

If the reports about the size looking much the same are true I wonder how different the lens can be. Perhaps they've tweaked the 100macro formula solving the fringin with minor changes. That would explain how it's planned to be a 2022 lens. Would suggest screw drive focus though which might not be a grea idea.

JPT · 08-01-2022, 02:39 AM - **3 Likes**

I think it's important to manage your expectations about how "new" this is going to be. They showed the old and new next to each other. The two lenses are the same size and might be actually externally the same with different markings. So I don't think they are likely to be adding many elements or changing the focus motor. I happen to like the compactness and look of the existing lens, so this is fine by me.

However, they did clearly say that they are changing the optical formula using different glass in the lens that is more expensive. So it is more than just applying new coatings to the lens, but a little less than an all-new lens.

As for why they are doing this lens, I have a feeling this is because it is a big seller and they tend to update big sellers more frequently (for example 55-300 lenses in the past). I also think it's because it is something they can come out with quickly and not get into a lot of supply issues when dealing with new components.

One more thing that interests me is how they use the roadmap. I think they have learnt from what they did in 2016 that putting lenses they haven't even started to develop on the roadmap is a mistake. This lens is only going to be on the roadmap a few months before it is on sale. I believe this is the way they will do things in future, and it will hopefully restore some credibility in the roadmap.

Fogel70 · 08-01-2022, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by house

If the reports about the size looking much the same are true I wonder how different the lens can be. Perhaps they've tweaked the 100macro formula solving the fringin with minor changes. That would explain how it's planned to be a 2022 lens. Would suggest screw drive focus though which might not be a grea idea.

We do not know anything about how long they been working on this lens.
D FA 100 WR was released 13 years ago. So they could have been working on a new version for a decade or more.

Even if it is the same size it could contain several more lens elements and be heavier.
There is a lot of empty space in the current design with the front lens recessed several centimeters from the front.

house · 08-01-2022, 02:51 AM

I'm looking forward to seeing what they've changed optically. There has been discussions about whether it's possible to do minor tweaks including introducing new types of glass in formulas very closely resembling the old ones. Many said it's not possible so will be interesting to see what they've done.

The old DFA100 only really has one flaw* which is purple fringing. Fixing it in a lens much like the old one would be good.

*If nitpicking one could add screw drive af, and difficult manual focus near infinity to the list.

AfterPentax Mark II · 08-01-2022, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by simon_199

Interesting, hope they get rid of screwdrive focus but if it's same size and similar design I doubt that.

No trace on the roadmap of the rumored 50-135 PLM...

Very small motors for lenses do exist. I also own Samsung NX camera's with the pancakes 20 and 30 mm as well as a 20-50mm zoom and they all have motors inside. I do not doubt that Ricoh will be able to incorporate a splendid miniaturized motor in a new 100mm, if that is the plan. On this forum you will notice the need for silent focusing for various styles of photography and Ricoh promised to listen to the "fan" base, did not they?

Fogel70 · 08-01-2022, 04:06 AM - **2 Likes**

Pentax DC motor is quite small and have been fitted inside some quite small lenses.

Here you can see how little space there are inside the DA 18-50 zoom for the motor when the lens is retracted.
In Pictures: DA 18-50mm Retractable Kit Lens - CP+ 2015 | PentaxForums.com

beholder3 · 08-01-2022, 04:17 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by FozzFoster

Looks like the roadmap was just updated to include a new 100mm Macro.

Not the least this also is an added option for portrait shooting (assuming F2.8), with the exact same subject separation/bokeh quantity as the DFA 50/1.4 but with the added benefit of having twice the DoF - compared at same framing (e.g. head and shoulders) and with distant background. That allows nice background separation and still full face/ both eyes in focus.

---------- Post added 1st Aug 2022 at 13:25 ----------

Originally posted by JPT

The two lenses are the same size and might be actually externally the same with different markings.

The current version is often called "the hidden limited" because of the great haptics and very small size. So keeping this is a plus.

Look at this: (and keep in mind camerasize only can show the fat old version of the Pentax; the current one is slimmer)

Compact Camera Meter

bdery · 08-01-2022, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I do wonder what their thinking is

Sometimes they have a working design on hand (that they stumbled on, or with improvements that they felt would be expensive at the time, but are now easier/less expensive, etc). The R&D effort can be kept low enough to warrant the expense.

Or they might feel that's an area where they can convince users to spend new money, and as such feel the expense is justified.

Lloyd_Christmas · 08-01-2022, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by house

g introducing new types of glass in formulas very closely resembling the old ones. Many said it's not possible so will be interesting to see what they've done.

I saw that too. They state an "expensive new glass". I'm enthusiastic about the resulting image quality. New materials would not be used especially if expensive unless it gives real results.
Perhaps the new glass is what gets rid of the purple fringing...at a minimum!

08-01-2022, 03:00 AM	#26
AfterPentax Mark II Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 1,467	Originally posted by simon_199 Interesting, hope they get rid of screwdrive focus but if it's same size and similar design I doubt that. No trace on the roadmap of the rumored 50-135 PLM... Very small motors for lenses do exist. I also own Samsung NX camera's with the pancakes 20 and 30 mm as well as a 20-50mm zoom and they all have motors inside. I do not doubt that Ricoh will be able to incorporate a splendid miniaturized motor in a new 100mm, if that is the plan. On this forum you will notice the need for silent focusing for various styles of photography and Ricoh promised to listen to the "fan" base, did not they? Last edited by AfterPentax Mark II; 08-01-2022 at 06:48 AM. Reason: typo

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07-31-2022, 11:19 PM	#16
Madaboutpix Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Rhine-Westphalia Posts: 1,446	Now, this is excellent news indeed. Based on what little we know so far, and the long line of competent macros in the K Mount, I trust it will be a great lens. Let's see if they will implement 2:1 magnification, which would take its specs to what the Laowa competition is offering, and I also hope they will manage to keep the price in the affordable three-digit range. If the latter should be the case, I will certainly add the new macro to my wish list.

07-31-2022, 11:55 PM	#17
pimpim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Mainz Photos: Albums Posts: 253	a change in coating would not help a lot in purple fringing, so is this glass with different diffraction? Would be good if they're propagating that glass to other products. Good news that they're developing by step by step perfecting these niches, that's exactly what Pentax should do now.

08-01-2022, 12:02 AM	#18
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Pentax 100 mm macro lens is one oft their oldest optical formula still in use that has not seen an major update, so it is good to see a new design coming. I already have a number of macro lenses that I'm satisfied with, so I do not need a new one anytime soon. But a modern designed macro with weather sealing would be nice. If it also has a built in AF-motor with a focus range switch it would be great, and more useful for other photography than macro. ---------- Post added 01-08-22 at 09:40 ---------- Originally posted by pimpim a change in coating would not help a lot in purple fringing, so is this glass with different diffraction? Would be good if they're propagating that glass to other products. Good news that they're developing by step by step perfecting these niches, that's exactly what Pentax should do now. If it is brand new optical design it will have a lot more lens elements than the current old design. Probably at least 12-15 lens elements, for better correction of purple fringing and other optical aberrations.

08-01-2022, 01:35 AM	#19
AfterPentax Mark II Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 1,467	Maybe this explains why in Europe they are giving the 100mm Macro away free when buying a K-1 Mark II Body. Getting rid of old stock? A silent AF 100mm Macro, I think I am in for a new lens.... I still use the old F 100mm Macro, which is heavy and noisy.

08-01-2022, 01:42 AM - 1 Like	#20
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Now that I spend a lot of my macro time shooting images of my home-made knives, less purple fringing will be very welcome. I'll be an early adopter of this one.

08-01-2022, 02:15 AM - 3 Likes	#21
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	About time too. The optical formula of the current lens still stems from the Pentax-F 100mm F2.8 from 1987 so that's 35 years old.

08-01-2022, 02:26 AM	#22
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	If the reports about the size looking much the same are true I wonder how different the lens can be. Perhaps they've tweaked the 100macro formula solving the fringin with minor changes. That would explain how it's planned to be a 2022 lens. Would suggest screw drive focus though which might not be a grea idea.

08-01-2022, 02:39 AM - 3 Likes	#23
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	I think it's important to manage your expectations about how "new" this is going to be. They showed the old and new next to each other. The two lenses are the same size and might be actually externally the same with different markings. So I don't think they are likely to be adding many elements or changing the focus motor. I happen to like the compactness and look of the existing lens, so this is fine by me. However, they did clearly say that they are changing the optical formula using different glass in the lens that is more expensive. So it is more than just applying new coatings to the lens, but a little less than an all-new lens. As for why they are doing this lens, I have a feeling this is because it is a big seller and they tend to update big sellers more frequently (for example 55-300 lenses in the past). I also think it's because it is something they can come out with quickly and not get into a lot of supply issues when dealing with new components. One more thing that interests me is how they use the roadmap. I think they have learnt from what they did in 2016 that putting lenses they haven't even started to develop on the roadmap is a mistake. This lens is only going to be on the roadmap a few months before it is on sale. I believe this is the way they will do things in future, and it will hopefully restore some credibility in the roadmap.

08-01-2022, 02:43 AM	#24
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by house If the reports about the size looking much the same are true I wonder how different the lens can be. Perhaps they've tweaked the 100macro formula solving the fringin with minor changes. That would explain how it's planned to be a 2022 lens. Would suggest screw drive focus though which might not be a grea idea. We do not know anything about how long they been working on this lens. D FA 100 WR was released 13 years ago. So they could have been working on a new version for a decade or more. Even if it is the same size it could contain several more lens elements and be heavier. There is a lot of empty space in the current design with the front lens recessed several centimeters from the front.

08-01-2022, 02:51 AM	#25
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	I'm looking forward to seeing what they've changed optically. There has been discussions about whether it's possible to do minor tweaks including introducing new types of glass in formulas very closely resembling the old ones. Many said it's not possible so will be interesting to see what they've done. The old DFA100 only really has one flaw* which is purple fringing. Fixing it in a lens much like the old one would be good. *If nitpicking one could add screw drive af, and difficult manual focus near infinity to the list.

08-01-2022, 04:06 AM - 2 Likes	#27
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Pentax DC motor is quite small and have been fitted inside some quite small lenses. Here you can see how little space there are inside the DA 18-50 zoom for the motor when the lens is retracted. In Pictures: DA 18-50mm Retractable Kit Lens - CP+ 2015 \| PentaxForums.com

08-01-2022, 04:17 AM - 1 Like	#28
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by FozzFoster Looks like the roadmap was just updated to include a new 100mm Macro. Not the least this also is an added option for portrait shooting (assuming F2.8), with the exact same subject separation/bokeh quantity as the DFA 50/1.4 but with the added benefit of having twice the DoF - compared at same framing (e.g. head and shoulders) and with distant background. That allows nice background separation and still full face/ both eyes in focus. ---------- Post added 1st Aug 2022 at 13:25 ---------- Originally posted by JPT The two lenses are the same size and might be actually externally the same with different markings. The current version is often called "the hidden limited" because of the great haptics and very small size. So keeping this is a plus. Look at this: (and keep in mind camerasize only can show the fat old version of the Pentax; the current one is slimmer) Compact Camera Meter

08-01-2022, 06:11 AM	#29
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I do wonder what their thinking is Sometimes they have a working design on hand (that they stumbled on, or with improvements that they felt would be expensive at the time, but are now easier/less expensive, etc). The R&D effort can be kept low enough to warrant the expense. Or they might feel that's an area where they can convince users to spend new money, and as such feel the expense is justified.

08-01-2022, 06:45 AM	#30
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 462	Originally posted by house g introducing new types of glass in formulas very closely resembling the old ones. Many said it's not possible so will be interesting to see what they've done. I saw that too. They state an "expensive new glass". I'm enthusiastic about the resulting image quality. New materials would not be used especially if expensive unless it gives real results. Perhaps the new glass is what gets rid of the purple fringing...at a minimum!