Updated Roadmap: New 100mm Macro Coming

Jonathan Mac · 08-01-2022, 07:13 AM

I'm also surprised to see a 100mm macro is a priority but hopefully it'll have an in-lens focus motor and also a focus-limiter.

TBH a 50mm f/2.8 macro would be a better addition to the roadmap, if they're looking to add a more modern macro lens, even if it only went to 1:2 magnification. That or something longer, say 180mm.

**MossyRocks** · 08-01-2022, 07:14 AM

Now I want a one mostly to play with as an astro lens as the old D FA 100/2.8 WR Macro is a purple fringing monster for that.

zapp · 08-01-2022, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by bdery

Sometimes they have a working design on hand (that they stumbled on, or with improvements that they felt would be expensive at the time, but are now easier/less expensive, etc). The R&D effort can be kept low enough to warrant the expense.

Or they might feel that's an area where they can convince users to spend new money, and as such feel the expense is justified.

They will be looking for quick wins. Significant improvements without too much effort. If you update the optical formula, the whole lens should be inspected for changes and updates.
The FA Ltds saw "only" an update in coatings, their image drawing capabilities remained almost untouched as well as AF and fringing. The FA35 was also a very minor update - not good examples of improvements. Most developement effort went in real re-designs of D(F)A* 16-50, 11-16, 85, the 21Ltd.

bdery · 08-01-2022, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by zapp

They will be looking for quick wins.

That's what I said

Originally posted by zapp

If you update the optical formula, the whole lens should be inspected for changes and updates.

ANY design, regardless of the complexity of the changes, will need to go through full QA, validation/verification, pre-production. They certainly have the process well under control, but it's certain that any lens released is fully tested and qualified before being released.

**Rondec** · 08-01-2022, 08:16 AM

Add an in lens motor and some type of focus limiter and this would be a winner for certain.

The biggest negatives with the DFA 100 macro WR are the fringing (usually pretty simple to fix in post, but not always) and the way the focus racks in and out if it misses focus. I don't know how hard it would be to add a focus limiter, but that would be really helpful.

**pres589** · 08-01-2022, 08:20 AM

I'm also surprised that they didn't go with something like a 180 or 200mm macro instead of yet another 100. I'm kind of wondering if part of the thinking is that this will be a more affordable and more versatile lens vs. the D-FA 85 and FA 77 options. Kind of like Canon's 85mm f2 1:2 macro in RF mount.

Keeping the lens similar in size to the current 100 macro tells me this won't be any faster than f2.8. Which is unfortunate; an f2.5 or f2 100mm would make this more interesting.

Not really the lens I would have figured on showing up out of nowhere but it seems like a smart move. I had no idea the purple fringing was that bad with the current lens.

**robbiec** · 08-01-2022, 08:24 AM - **1 Like**

If they have example images then it can't be far off at all. Happy days.

I would love to see an updated 50 too.

**luftfluss** · 08-01-2022, 08:30 AM

Pentax may have felt the current 100mm Macro wasn't a great match for the upcoming K-1 III, with its higher-resolution sensor.

**Rondec** · 08-01-2022, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by pres589

I'm also surprised that they didn't go with something like a 180 or 200mm macro instead of yet another 100. I'm kind of wondering if part of the thinking is that this will be a more affordable and more versatile lens vs. the D-FA 85 and FA 77 options. Kind of like Canon's 85mm f2 1:2 macro in RF mount.

Keeping the lens similar in size to the current 100 macro tells me this won't be any faster than f2.8. Which is unfortunate; an f2.5 or f2 100mm would make this more interesting.

Not really the lens I would have figured on showing up out of nowhere but it seems like a smart move. I had no idea the purple fringing was that bad with the current lens.

I wonder how much of a difference there is between a 180mm macro and 100mm macro in terms of macro photography. I looked it up and the Pentax Sigma 180mm macro has a minimum focus distance of 46 cm and the DFA 100 macro has 30 cm. That's about 6 inches difference -- it's a real difference, but maybe not worth the extra cost you would get by releasing a second generation DFA *200mm f4 macro. The same would be true if you bump the aperture to f2 -- you are probably talking a 1200 dollar lens then.

**pres589** · 08-01-2022, 08:49 AM

Maybe we can have someone that's seriously used both the Pentax 100 and Sigma 180 or Pentax 200mm macros to join in and share their opinion on how much the longer focal length would appeal to them.

The Canon 85mm f2 1:2 macro sells for $550 in the US right now at the big NYC stores. I know it's not a strictly fair comparison (production volume and Canon's ability to stomach lower margins per lens sold) but I'm not sure if that would be a $1200 lens from Pentax or not if they sold something similar with such a fast aperture. Then again, looking at the prices they're asking for other recent lenses, I doubt it would sell for less than, say, $900. So I agree for the most part on your pricing estimate.

**FozzFoster** · 08-01-2022, 09:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kwb

Page 7

I usually don't dig into articles past the first page..
I saw the post on PR and looked at the roadmap

Didn't even know it was already talked about! :P
I have the smc DFA 100 WR that I'm really happy with.
I can see nice application using the new lens in astro with less aberrations

but for macro work I'm usually stopped right down and it's not bad for aberrations all the way down there..
You'd think a new optical design with fancy new expensive [heavy] glass would warrant a new autofocus motor (?)

---------- Post added 08-01-22 at 10:07 AM ----------

...my smc DFA 100mm f/2.8 WR was the first lens I bought brand new (besides a camera and kit lens)

Wheatfield · 08-01-2022, 09:46 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by beholder3

Not the least this also is an added option for portrait shooting (assuming F2.8), with the exact same subject separation/bokeh quantity as the DFA 50/1.4 but with the added benefit of having twice the DoF - compared at same framing (e.g. head and shoulders) and with distant background. That allows nice background separation and still full face/ both eyes in focus.

Umm, no I don't think so. DOF is a combination of reproduction ratio at the sensor plane and aperture.
A 50mm lens used at f/8 at 5 feet will have the same DOF as a 100mm lens used at f/8 and 10 feet on the same format.

What will change is how much background is included. The longer lens will have a much narrower background.

As a macro shooter, I'm excited by this announcement. I will always take a better lens if I can, and this announcement is telling me that Ricoh is serious about making Pentax about having the best lenses on the market.

**Belnan** · 08-01-2022, 09:50 AM

Its alive!

Unregistered User 8 · 08-01-2022, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

As a macro shooter, I'm excited by this announcement. I will always take a better lens if I can, and this announcement is telling me that Ricoh is serious about making Pentax about having the best lenses on the market.

^^^^ This, exactly. ^^^^

The Squirrel Mafia · 08-01-2022, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by simon_199

No trace on the roadmap of the rumored 50-135 PLM...

I'm still waiting for this too.

08-01-2022, 09:46 AM - 2 Likes	#42
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by beholder3 Not the least this also is an added option for portrait shooting (assuming F2.8), with the exact same subject separation/bokeh quantity as the DFA 50/1.4 but with the added benefit of having twice the DoF - compared at same framing (e.g. head and shoulders) and with distant background. That allows nice background separation and still full face/ both eyes in focus. Umm, no I don't think so. DOF is a combination of reproduction ratio at the sensor plane and aperture. A 50mm lens used at f/8 at 5 feet will have the same DOF as a 100mm lens used at f/8 and 10 feet on the same format. What will change is how much background is included. The longer lens will have a much narrower background. As a macro shooter, I'm excited by this announcement. I will always take a better lens if I can, and this announcement is telling me that Ricoh is serious about making Pentax about having the best lenses on the market. Last edited by Wheatfield; 08-01-2022 at 04:03 PM.

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08-01-2022, 07:13 AM	#31
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	I'm also surprised to see a 100mm macro is a priority but hopefully it'll have an in-lens focus motor and also a focus-limiter. TBH a 50mm f/2.8 macro would be a better addition to the roadmap, if they're looking to add a more modern macro lens, even if it only went to 1:2 magnification. That or something longer, say 180mm.

08-01-2022, 07:14 AM	#32
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982	Now I want a one mostly to play with as an astro lens as the old D FA 100/2.8 WR Macro is a purple fringing monster for that.

08-01-2022, 07:23 AM	#33
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by bdery Sometimes they have a working design on hand (that they stumbled on, or with improvements that they felt would be expensive at the time, but are now easier/less expensive, etc). The R&D effort can be kept low enough to warrant the expense. Or they might feel that's an area where they can convince users to spend new money, and as such feel the expense is justified. They will be looking for quick wins. Significant improvements without too much effort. If you update the optical formula, the whole lens should be inspected for changes and updates. The FA Ltds saw "only" an update in coatings, their image drawing capabilities remained almost untouched as well as AF and fringing. The FA35 was also a very minor update - not good examples of improvements. Most developement effort went in real re-designs of D(F)A* 16-50, 11-16, 85, the 21Ltd.

08-01-2022, 07:29 AM	#34
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by zapp They will be looking for quick wins. That's what I said Originally posted by zapp If you update the optical formula, the whole lens should be inspected for changes and updates. ANY design, regardless of the complexity of the changes, will need to go through full QA, validation/verification, pre-production. They certainly have the process well under control, but it's certain that any lens released is fully tested and qualified before being released.

08-01-2022, 08:16 AM	#35
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Add an in lens motor and some type of focus limiter and this would be a winner for certain. The biggest negatives with the DFA 100 macro WR are the fringing (usually pretty simple to fix in post, but not always) and the way the focus racks in and out if it misses focus. I don't know how hard it would be to add a focus limiter, but that would be really helpful.

08-01-2022, 08:20 AM	#36
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	I'm also surprised that they didn't go with something like a 180 or 200mm macro instead of yet another 100. I'm kind of wondering if part of the thinking is that this will be a more affordable and more versatile lens vs. the D-FA 85 and FA 77 options. Kind of like Canon's 85mm f2 1:2 macro in RF mount. Keeping the lens similar in size to the current 100 macro tells me this won't be any faster than f2.8. Which is unfortunate; an f2.5 or f2 100mm would make this more interesting. Not really the lens I would have figured on showing up out of nowhere but it seems like a smart move. I had no idea the purple fringing was that bad with the current lens.

08-01-2022, 08:24 AM - 1 Like	#37
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	If they have example images then it can't be far off at all. Happy days. I would love to see an updated 50 too.

08-01-2022, 08:30 AM	#38
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Pentax may have felt the current 100mm Macro wasn't a great match for the upcoming K-1 III, with its higher-resolution sensor.

08-01-2022, 08:37 AM	#39
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by pres589 I'm also surprised that they didn't go with something like a 180 or 200mm macro instead of yet another 100. I'm kind of wondering if part of the thinking is that this will be a more affordable and more versatile lens vs. the D-FA 85 and FA 77 options. Kind of like Canon's 85mm f2 1:2 macro in RF mount. Keeping the lens similar in size to the current 100 macro tells me this won't be any faster than f2.8. Which is unfortunate; an f2.5 or f2 100mm would make this more interesting. Not really the lens I would have figured on showing up out of nowhere but it seems like a smart move. I had no idea the purple fringing was that bad with the current lens. I wonder how much of a difference there is between a 180mm macro and 100mm macro in terms of macro photography. I looked it up and the Pentax Sigma 180mm macro has a minimum focus distance of 46 cm and the DFA 100 macro has 30 cm. That's about 6 inches difference -- it's a real difference, but maybe not worth the extra cost you would get by releasing a second generation DFA *200mm f4 macro. The same would be true if you bump the aperture to f2 -- you are probably talking a 1200 dollar lens then.

08-01-2022, 08:49 AM	#40
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Maybe we can have someone that's seriously used both the Pentax 100 and Sigma 180 or Pentax 200mm macros to join in and share their opinion on how much the longer focal length would appeal to them. The Canon 85mm f2 1:2 macro sells for $550 in the US right now at the big NYC stores. I know it's not a strictly fair comparison (production volume and Canon's ability to stomach lower margins per lens sold) but I'm not sure if that would be a $1200 lens from Pentax or not if they sold something similar with such a fast aperture. Then again, looking at the prices they're asking for other recent lenses, I doubt it would sell for less than, say, $900. So I agree for the most part on your pricing estimate.

08-01-2022, 09:06 AM - 1 Like	#41
FozzFoster Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Alberta Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	Originally posted by kwb Page 7 I usually don't dig into articles past the first page.. I saw the post on PR and looked at the roadmap Didn't even know it was already talked about! :P I have the smc DFA 100 WR that I'm really happy with. I can see nice application using the new lens in astro with less aberrations but for macro work I'm usually stopped right down and it's not bad for aberrations all the way down there.. You'd think a new optical design with fancy new expensive [heavy] glass would warrant a new autofocus motor (?) ---------- Post added 08-01-22 at 10:07 AM ---------- ...my smc DFA 100mm f/2.8 WR was the first lens I bought brand new (besides a camera and kit lens)

08-01-2022, 09:50 AM	#43
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Its alive!

08-01-2022, 10:07 AM	#44
Unregistered User 8 Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,694	Originally posted by Wheatfield As a macro shooter, I'm excited by this announcement. I will always take a better lens if I can, and this announcement is telling me that Ricoh is serious about making Pentax about having the best lenses on the market. ^^^^ This, exactly. ^^^^

08-01-2022, 10:42 AM	#45
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,054	Originally posted by simon_199 No trace on the roadmap of the rumored 50-135 PLM... I'm still waiting for this too.