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08-07-2022, 01:32 AM - 1 Like   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
This picture says it all about having a motor or not...
With respect, it says almost nothing: a photo of the new macro’s lens mount would tell us. So far, all we have to go on is there will be a new 100mm macro of similar size to the existing model. That’s it.

08-07-2022, 02:02 AM - 5 Likes   #227
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This feels like "the notch"* all over again. The lens is the same size weight and external design. It was even clearer when you saw the video of the lenses being moved together. When a lens has been updated with a DC motor or other motor in the past, it has always led to a visible change in the lens, usually increasing the diameter. On the other hand, by my count Pentax has updated no less than 10 screwdrive lenses without adding a motor, so it's clearly something they do. I think it's clear that this is going to be a minor tweak of the optics and coatings without adding a motor.

* For any people who missed the notch saga, I'm referring to the time a few years ago when a prototype of the K-3 III was shown and multiple photos of the case were shown with no movable screen. Certain people could not accept this and insisted that a certain contour of the camera looked like a little notch from which you could pluck out the screen.
08-07-2022, 02:31 AM   #228
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I don't think it looks like it has a change in drive mechanism. I guess I would simply say that such a change would require a lot more work and we wouldn't be seeing this lens's release now, but in two or three years.
08-07-2022, 07:57 AM   #229
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I keep looking at the focus ring in the photo and thinking "why are they releasing a preset lens? And why aren't the aperture settings labeled?"

It looks like two aperture rings at the end... I had a 135mm lens years ago that worked like that... that would sure have a lot of heads exploding if they actually did that

-Eric

08-07-2022, 08:17 AM - 1 Like   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I keep looking at the focus ring in the photo and thinking "why are they releasing a preset lens? And why aren't the aperture settings labeled?"

It looks like two aperture rings at the end... I had a 135mm lens years ago that worked like that... that would sure have a lot of heads exploding if they actually did that

-Eric
We have enough heads exploding already don't you think?
08-07-2022, 08:31 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I keep looking at the focus ring in the photo and thinking "why are they releasing a preset lens? And why aren't the aperture settings labeled?"

It looks like two aperture rings at the end... I had a 135mm lens years ago that worked like that... that would sure have a lot of heads exploding if they actually did that

-Eric
This is essentially a ‘leak’.
Don’t assume too much by what is labeled and what isn’t.
08-07-2022, 08:50 AM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I keep looking at the focus ring in the photo and thinking "why are they releasing a preset lens? And why aren't the aperture settings labeled?"

It looks like two aperture rings at the end... I had a 135mm lens years ago that worked like that... that would sure have a lot of heads exploding if they actually did that

-Eric
It's not a preset lens. The focus ring looks similar (maybe identical) to the D FA 100mm WR's, and it's similar to the D FA 21mm Limited's, FA 31 and 77mm Limited's, DA 70mm macro Limited's and DA 20-40mm Limited's. Basically to all the Limiteds with a wider focus ring.
Markings are missing because this isn't even a pre-production sample.

08-07-2022, 12:59 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
With respect, it says almost nothing: a photo of the new macro’s lens mount would tell us. So far, all we have to go on is there will be a new 100mm macro of similar size to the existing model. That’s it.
An interesting take. Perhaps I'm missing, they look to me like identical lenses, except that the new macro has HD coatings. Even the so-called purple fringing shown in the picture looks more like a flare-type fringing, which of course could be dramatically reduced with the HD coatings.

As far as focus motors are concerned, I doubt we're ever going to see a focus motor on a 1:1 magnification macro that isn't IF. The focus throw is just too long. Focus motors on lenses without IF are pretty rare in any case (I can't think of any examples of such lenses beyond the DA 20-40). Bear in mind that, as usual, it's all about trade-offs. Yes, there's no focus motor on any of the DFA 100 macros, or a limiter for that matter, but that's the price we all pay for making it such a compact lens. Also an IF macro might very well suffer from focus breathing. I believe one of the Canon 100 macros is actually an eighty-something millimeter lens at 1:1 magnification.

given the long focus throw of any 1:1 macro that is not IF,
08-07-2022, 01:16 PM - 1 Like   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
As far as focus motors are concerned, I doubt we're ever going to see a focus motor on a 1:1 magnification macro that isn't IF.
The Tokina version of the D FA 100 macro, in Canon mount.
08-07-2022, 01:32 PM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The Tokina version of the D FA 100 macro, in Canon mount.
I was going to say something snarky here about the new macro being made by Tokina, but I know that's not been a popular thing, even in jest...
Especially when the Ricoh optical engineer stands up and says, "I did this..."

And yes, I know it's not going to be a preset lens; I was hoping the smiley made that clear

I'm expecting a lens very much like the current model, in a very similar shell, with the same focusing technology.

The thing I'm curious about is really what the optical changes are.
Obviously, there's a significant reduction in fringing, and the "new kind of glass" that is likely behind it, but what does it mean?
A single element of exotic glass which refracts differently would presumably need to be shaped slightly differently to fit into the same optical equation, right?
So then how does it fit? How much did they really change?

I'm guessing whatever the changes, they had to be small enough to allow nearly everything else to remain the same, else it would require various levels of physical change, with an accompanying price change larger than what they have hinted...
And that prototype didn't look any different from the current model, which I know is not a perfect indication, but still... interesting...

-Eric
08-07-2022, 01:40 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
An interesting take. Perhaps I'm missing, they look to me like identical lenses, except that the new macro has HD coatings. Even the so-called purple fringing shown in the picture looks more like a flare-type fringing, which of course could be dramatically reduced with the HD coatings.

As far as focus motors are concerned, I doubt we're ever going to see a focus motor on a 1:1 magnification macro that isn't IF. The focus throw is just too long. Focus motors on lenses without IF are pretty rare in any case (I can't think of any examples of such lenses beyond the DA 20-40). Bear in mind that, as usual, it's all about trade-offs. Yes, there's no focus motor on any of the DFA 100 macros, or a limiter for that matter, but that's the price we all pay for making it such a compact lens. Also an IF macro might very well suffer from focus breathing. I believe one of the Canon 100 macros is actually an eighty-something millimeter lens at 1:1 magnification.

given the long focus throw of any 1:1 macro that is not IF,
I think there must be a more significant change than simply changing the coatings. When Pentax released the HD FA limiteds, they didn't crow at all about how it helped with purple fringing. They simply said that it reduced flare and the rounded aperture blades gave more pleasing out of focus rendering.

They probably will go with an HD coating for this lens, but I think there must be some change in the glass used to explain the reduction in purple fringing.
08-07-2022, 04:48 PM - 5 Likes   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Markings are missing because this isn't even a pre-production sample.
Actually, Wakashiro-san said and showed that he had taped over the markings, so they are already there but concealed.

I think this lens is very close to done and it was shown not because it is the most significant thing they are working on, but because it will come first.
08-07-2022, 09:42 PM - 4 Likes   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I think this lens is very close to done and it was shown not because it is the most significant thing they are working on, but because it will come first.
Posts like this are so valuable in giving balance to all the unfounded negative posts that have plagued the forums lately. As you quite rightly imply JPT, none of us know what Ricoh/Pentax are working on at any time, and the silly assumption is made far too often that they are doing nothing. Really well said.
08-07-2022, 10:34 PM - 1 Like   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
An interesting take. Perhaps I'm missing, they look to me like identical lenses, except that the new macro has HD coatings. Even the so-called purple fringing shown in the picture looks more like a flare-type fringing, which of course could be dramatically reduced with the HD coatings.

As far as focus motors are concerned, I doubt we're ever going to see a focus motor on a 1:1 magnification macro that isn't IF. The focus throw is just too long. Focus motors on lenses without IF are pretty rare in any case (I can't think of any examples of such lenses beyond the DA 20-40). Bear in mind that, as usual, it's all about trade-offs. Yes, there's no focus motor on any of the DFA 100 macros, or a limiter for that matter, but that's the price we all pay for making it such a compact lens. Also an IF macro might very well suffer from focus breathing. I believe one of the Canon 100 macros is actually an eighty-something millimeter lens at 1:1 magnification.

given the long focus throw of any 1:1 macro that is not IF,
Pretty much all "longer" focal length 1:1 macro lenses have heavy focus breathing. The Pentax DFA 100mm is 75mm at 1:1. Rule of thumb is that the minimum focusing distance is 4x the focal length at that magnification. You can double check this by using the formula for magnification as a function of distance and focal length.
For instance the Irix 150mm macro (internal focusing) claims a minimum focusing distance of 34cm at 1:1 magnification, that corresponds about 85mm focal length.
08-07-2022, 11:40 PM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Actually, Wakashiro-san said and showed that he had taped over the markings, so they are already there but concealed.

I think this lens is very close to done and it was shown not because it is the most significant thing they are working on, but because it will come first.
Thank you for the correction; the existence of black tape simply slipped my mind

Anyway, black tape or unmarked prototype - my point was: it's normal.
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