[panonski]

Well, I understand the point ... but other companies often bring significant, really significant updates for free.

...
and they're much better at SALES / MARKET / COVERING positions - then Pentax.

-
I remember that one times flagship OMD-1 from Oly - was way pushed forward with its firmware updates. They start at 1.0 - and if I remember good - the last one was at 4.0

-
They implement focus stacking, and much more - from first release.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*and I was always upset with that in mind,

when I switched to Pentax - and realise - that Pentax doesn't do that .


----------

So keeping this in my mind - I can tell that selling - the feature - wich others gave it for free during camera support lifespan - is dumb move - and specifically because you actually don't have much space to offer anything new to the customer.

-
And somehow - die hard pentaxians - again - and again - finds out - their loyal brand - is doing the right thing.

-
With such enthusiast one eye blinded market - Pentax will never be doomed

[LukaszWro]

We are also talking about adding functions to cameras that are pretty old

option of adding something to a K-1 which is now six and a half years old

yes, but still is only one full frame camera in offer. and still is flagship. there is no new ff on the horizon even many would want to.

personally i would rather shot two diffrent exposure frames than buy that GRAD ND. but i understand point. not everybody shots in raws.

[Kevin B123]

Software as a subscription is bad. Camera as a subscription is worse. Hard pass.

JTP said in the original post that you could buy the firmware, I don't know where you saw that it was a subscription. If it were subscription then I agree, but I don't think it is.

The problem with a physical GRD is that jagged mountain in the frame, software GRD simply ignores it as it is looking for bright areas to tone down and then pumps out a balanced RAW file as I see it anyway.

Since I don't use photoshop and can't be bothered with masking, this is a big in camera win for me.

[Kunzite]

JTP said in the original post that you could buy the firmware, I don't know where you saw that it was a subscription. If it were subscription then I agree, but I don't think it is.

On the Japanese product page there's the price - 110k yen. No word about any subscription; you do pay for each of the cameras you want to use these functions on.
https://ricohimagingstore.com/premium-function-pentax.html

And if we're discussing the effort of implementing a software Gradual ND filter - how about the effort of implementing a QR code recognition software? (the activation key appears to be a QR code).

[jersey]

Software as a subscription is bad. Camera as a subscription is worse. Hard pass.

It is not subscription, you just buy a piece of software. If it is baked-in RAW and multiple exposure then it is not just graduated filter. I wonder if they are not touching sensor operation, instead of just adding a grade over. We would need to wait for it to be available for abroad (if it ever will be) or some more technical reviews from Japan.

---------- Post added 10-19-22 at 01:31 AM ----------

This "Autumn" look has just been added in Autumn, right, it isn't restricted to Autumn use? And the Summer/Satobi look is still in there as well?

Yes, KATEN is still there, just checked with 15mm Limited. And SATOBI is general profile, not seasonal so it will not be removed

---------- Post added 10-19-22 at 01:33 AM ----------

I will never not be amazed by the willingness of Pentaxians to suffer any decision made by a corporation with $16.1B in revenue in order to prove their undying devotion to a camera brand that exists in name only. Fascinating.

Some just understand that business is business. Company is there to earn money, not to provide everything for free. No one is forcing you or anyone else to buy anything from Ricoh.

[Andrea K]

JTP said in the original post that you could buy the firmware, I don't know where you saw that it was a subscription. If it were subscription then I agree, but I don't think it is.

The problem with a physical GRD is that jagged mountain in the frame, software GRD simply ignores it as it is looking for bright areas to tone down and then pumps out a balanced RAW file as I see it anyway.

Since I don't use photoshop and can't be bothered with masking, this is a big in camera win for me.

From the shared pictures doesn't seems that the software GRD acts only on bright areas

[Rondec]

...
and they're much better at SALES / MARKET / COVERING positions - then Pentax.

-
I remember that one times flagship OMD-1 from Oly - was way pushed forward with its firmware updates. They start at 1.0 - and if I remember good - the last one was at 4.0

-
They implement focus stacking, and much more - from first release.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*and I was always upset with that in mind,

when I switched to Pentax - and realise - that Pentax doesn't do that .


----------

So keeping this in my mind - I can tell that selling - the feature - wich others gave it for free during camera support lifespan - is dumb move - and specifically because you actually don't have much space to offer anything new to the customer.

-
And somehow - die hard pentaxians - again - and again - finds out - their loyal brand - is doing the right thing.

-
With such enthusiast one eye blinded market - Pentax will never be doomed

I am not certain how Uncle Vanya or my reactions could be said to be saying that Pentax is "doing the right thing." The only thing that I have said is that it isn't the same as a subscription.

Let's say a couple of things.

(1) The status quo for Pentax in the past would have been to add nothing new to Pentax cameras in the field. They have fixed bugs, added electronic shutter, and added new lens profiles, but that's about it. If they had continued that pattern, there would have been no new firmware to talk about and no one would have started a thread to complain that Pentax hadn't released a GND filter for their camera.

(2) As has been before mentioned, all of us who own one of these cameras will have the choice with regarding the GND. If we choose not to pay for it, our cameras continue to function just the way they always did. This is no ransomware attack and in point of fact, most people probably don't even have a reason to use an in-camera GND and would be better off purchasing physical filters.

(3) Pentax needs to continue generating income to survive as a company. If this is successful, they may offer other features "a la carte." The majority of features will be free, of course, but there are certain things -- video modes, astro modes, etc -- that the majority of folks wouldn't ever use, but that some people would be willing to pay additional money for. I think it is reasonable to look at some of these features down the road, just as they are looking at specialty cameras, like the all black K-3 III to generate a little additional interest and revenue.

Pentax makes plenty of mistakes. Maybe this is one of them. I just think that if Pentax releases a new lens, accessory, or even firmware update that I am not interested in, it doesn't hurt me one little bit to move on and not purchase it. I guess the only pain comes from the knowledge that something that I didn't even know existed a couple of days ago is now available for a price when I think it should have been free. Somehow that doesn't bother me too much and I won't think about it again, unless I re-visit this thread.

[Kevin B123]

From the shared pictures doesn't seems that the software GRD acts only on bright areas

It think it is smarter than the simple marketing images of a grad ND filter suggest.
There is this example showing -3ev, the mountain looks normal and not -3ev at least I think so.
I think we can agree it is a great improvement.

Edit; it looks like you can simply order from Japan. I think I will try this tonight, it's about £65.

[ffking]

I think that the direction of travel is interesting here - especially that they can and will implement this with an oldish sensor. If the digital ND grad sells they will doubtless refine it and maybe start adding ND spot features that could work very nicely with a touch screen in future models (and the K-3iii). And who knows what else? Following the computing model and getting cusomisable upgrades where you pay for what you want might be a smart way to go if people preceived that they were not paying for features that they did not want rather than that they were paying extra for upgrades.

[UncleVanya]

I love being accused of being a brand loyalist. Let’s recap: I shot Yashica and Nikon film cameras until switching to Pentax autofocus film. Then I shot a variety of point and shoot digitals by Fujifilm, Nikon, and Pentax… after that I came back to Pentax DSLR’s and then had a stint with Samsung NX, m43 (5 different bodies, 15+ lenses, two major brands plus one or two smaller brand’s lenses), I owned a high end enthusiast Panasonic point and shoot, and I’ve lately added a Sony enthusiast grade point and shoot and full frame - yes I’ve kept my Pentax DSLR gear, and I’m fond of it. I’ve sold off the Samsung, the m43 gear, and the Nikon point and shoot is languishing in a drawer somewhere. But I’ve got a wide experience of multiple systems and I shoot with what’s best for me at the time.

I’m also a realist. If Ricoh can’t make enough money selling Pentax for that to remain profitable and for it to be a viable use of capital, the brand and the products will vanish. If a special feature or two is offered as a pay as you want feature that’s ok with me, particularly if the product lifespan is extended and novel features are added. Bug fixes and incremental feature gains should remain free and appear to be.

[bspn]

The last part of my working career was in the Machine Tool industry, you know the machines that make the parts for well, nearly everything from watches to automobiles to jet engines to medical implants. Those machines that are computer numerically controlled, CNC, have a control that from the factory contains all the bells and whistles they have designed into it when they are offered for sale. When the buyer decides he doesn't need 'everything', he pays for what he wants. He can then purchase additional options to make the machine on his floor do more, do what he wants/needs it to do. They were there all along, but until he buys those options, they don't work. They are activated with a code, often entered by a technician he also pays if the machine is not still under warranty. The majority of the customers I had personal interaction with knew this, understood this, and accepted this was how things were. Occasionally a customer would be 'upset' that the option he wanted/needed was in the control already, but he was unable to activate and use it. The practice works and is a whole lot easier than having to 'install' something that is a software solution from scratch.


Incidentally, one of the world's largest machine tool maker, based in the USA, uses a code that needs to be entered, once, to keep the machine running. That code is not released to the customer until the machine is paid for. If the Manufacturer is not paid before 'time runs out', the machine powers up, awaiting entry of that code, and does NOTHING ELSE.

I have never used a ND filter, but if I did, it seems more cost effective to pay Ricoh a small fee to have this 'Special Option' activated than purchasing filters of how many different sizes and gradients?
Would I pay to have my camera do something Ricoh/Pentax never proposed it would be able to do, such as High Speed Video? Absolutely. ND filters, I'll probably pass, but that's not saying I wish they never would have offered it because other users may find it well worth the small cost.

How anyone could read this as a software (or camera) subscription model is ridiculously inane.


BTW, free software upgrades are randomly provided to update these CNC controls at no cost to the owner, mostly to improve operation and/or correct 'bugs'. These are sometimes performed by a technician if he's there to address other issues. Unless they are to resolve an 'unsafe' condition, these updates are not necessarily done for every owner.

[BarneyL]

tl;dr: Here is how companies exploit consumers, and here's why that's a good thing, where "small-cost" = 10% the price of a used body.

I've been on my way out from the Pentax cult for a while. This might be the thing that pushes me over the edge for good. Well done, Ricoh! Good luck with your boutique firmware updates!

Not gonna lie, I'm also thoroughly disappointed with this approach from Ricoh.

Pentax has a small, but loyal user base that should be appreciated for their loyalty, not milked. First we have jpeg presets that only work with some lenses, now we get a paid firmware update that doesn't offer anything the competition doesn't give for free.

Not to mention this will just get pirated eventually, and Pentax people, after mastering DIY fixes of solenoids and screwdrive options for old SDM lenses, will now become also crackers of camera firmware.

GJ Ricoh

[Serkevan]

The last part of my working career was in the Machine Tool industry, you know the machines that make the parts for well, nearly everything from watches to automobiles to jet engines to medical implants. Those machines that are computer numerically controlled, CNC, have a control that from the factory contains all the bells and whistles they have designed into it when they are offered for sale. When the buyer decides he doesn't need 'everything', he pays for what he wants.

Yeah well, last time I checked we could use the machine's software in more than one computer. From what I gather, if my K-1 croaks and I have to buy another one, I lose the functionality. If that is the case, that's just grand.

[reh321]

tl;dr: Here is how companies exploit consumers, and here's why that's a good thing, where "small-cost" = 10% the price of a used body.

I've been on my way out from the Pentax cult for a while. This might be the thing that pushes me over the edge for good. Well done, Ricoh! Good luck with your boutique firmware updates!

I will just ignore the whole thing, and continue to use my Pentax KP as long as it does what I need to do - then someone else {perhaps OMDS} may share in my ‘riches’. In my view, people are taking this whole thing too seriously.

[Mikesul]

Dnftt