[ben-pentax]

As I've said, I'm not talking about the (picture) sensor. Read again.

[biz-engineer]

A K-1 III would combine some of the best features of the K-3 III with a high megapixel, full frame sensor.

K1 successor doesn't need to be revolutionary to be attractive. Upgrading with mainstream tech such as UHS-II and a newer BSI sensor with 4K, plus latest firmware functionality, housed into the same K1 camera body, would already be a great offering.

---------- Post added 11-12-22 at 12:34 ----------

As I've said, I'm not talking about the (picture) sensor. Read again.

Yes you're talking about the AE 300K RGB sensor, like on the K3III, that also receive light from behind the mirror, like the PDAF sensor.

Did you mean you would have a dual pixel 300K RGB AE sensor that would also do the PDAF function, and get rid of the old PDAF only sensor?

[MMVIII]

There were threads here that discussed possibilities of AF with mirror but without the dedicated PD-module.
I think they started coming from a patent-applicatiin, but can't remember exactly. I think the summary was:
the PD-sensors at the bottom of the mirrorbox are fed by light rays coming through a semitransparent area of the main mirror that hit a secondary mirror behind it. This restricts the possible area for PD-AF coverage to the semitransparent area of the main mirror, which on the other hand us determined by the area that can be covered with the secondary mirror. If the secondary mirror is abandoned and the semitransparent area is expanded to the full mirror this amount of light would reach the main sensor. This would not be any different from any mirrorless camera and offer exactly the same possibilities as they have. The only difference would be the split/reduction of the amount of light, but this might be relevant only in very low light situations. Additionally the mirror would feed the prism and viewfinder as it does now (I have not noticed any reduced brightness in the area covered by AF=semitransparent area).
However, as some said, this would also require the shutter to be open for metering. With the new generation of sensors this is something that can be done without sacrifices. See the Nikon Z9 with a sensor with electronic global shutter.
It would require the sensor to be able to do all the metering, but this is something that all the mirrorless cameras have solved by now. For edge applications in low light metering the mirror could be lifted up and the full amount of light would reach the sensor (e.g. astro).
But, what I would find interesting, would be: if they kept the IRRGB sensor in the viewfinder and even upped the resolution such a camera could use another layer of information for AF. No mirrorless camera has a dedicated Infrared layer, that in industry is often used to track pupils of eyes.
Still, despite some indication of some development in Ricoh land by patents (IIRC), such a system would be cool, but I don't think that it would be implemented in a K-1III though.

[biz-engineer]

Still, despite some indication of some development in Ricoh land by patents (IIRC), such a system would be cool, but I don't think that it would be implemented in a K-1III though.

I prefer to have a new real camera with the basics done right but without fancy innovation, as opposed to have an innovative that only exist in patent database.

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-11-2022 at 04:46 AM.

[MMVIII]

I prefer to have a new real camera with the basics done right but without fancy innovation, as opposed to have an innovative that only exist in patent database.

I think we all agree that an evolution of K-1II to K-1III with some K-3III tech-infusion would be an amazing camera.

[ffking]

I prefer to have a new real camera with the basics done right

I think that for a long time Pentax was far too keen on having something different to offer and lost market share for exactly the reason that it fell behind on doing the basics right - so I agree. i like the unique features of Pentax cameras, but they can never be at the expense of the basics if Pentax wants to be relevant in the future.

[biz-engineer]

If I were to guess, I would put my money on the end of next year or beginning of 2025. I do think it will be a camera worth waiting for.

I'm expect to see a prototype of the camera at next CP+ 2023 CP+2023 CAMERA & PHOTO IMAGING SHOW 2023 . That's in less than 8 weeks.

---------- Post added 11-12-22 at 13:11 ----------

I think that for a long time Pentax was far too keen on having something different to offer and lost market share for exactly the reason that it fell behind on doing the basics right - so I agree. i like the unique features of Pentax cameras, but they can never be at the expense of the basics if Pentax wants to be relevant in the future.

Like for example, after playing around with paint recipes for the K3III Jet black, they accidentally stumbled on a recipe that makes the paint invisible, so they decided to use that invisible paint for the Pentax K1 III so that people can't know we are taking a picture of them when the photographer is using that camera. But the invisible paint causes big problems in the factory because all cameras become invisible after they are painted, which create accidents when employees bump into all those invisible camera floating around in the factory, especially in the packaging department. Again, that's only a speculation, I have no evidence of what I'm saying.

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-11-2022 at 05:15 AM.

[zapp]

K1iii will be a Pentax style D850, just as the K3iii was a Pentax style D500. I guess that the camera also „replaces“ the 645 line. Looking at the prism/mirror design of recent Pentax cameras, on sensor pdaf is not a key feature.Either you have a mirror or you don’t, there is no good reason for a hybrid af system right now. Increasing frame rate, buffer rate, pixel count at a Pentax price point, is not easy. More glass will help more than just a new camera body.

[Wheatfield]

I don't know about that. I think it would be interesting to get actual figures. Prime lenses sell in less quantities, but they sell for longer, e.g FA limited. Lenses and camera bodies like apple and oranges?

Lenses and camera bodies are both parts of an integrated system. Bodies are generally low profit items designed to bring people into the lens system. We shouldn't pretend that a Rebel body was making tons of money for Canon on an individual basis. They made money because they sold like hotcakes.

This is why the low end of the market is being abandoned. The sales numbers aren't there, the ROI isn't there. Unfortunately for consumers, the massive sales numbers and ultimately decent profit off of entry level has been propping up sales of top end bodies, effectively allowing higher end bodies to sell for less than they really should to achieve a desirable ROI.
I say unfortunately for consumers because the demise of entry level means there is no longer a mass market underwriting the high end market, and so prices of high end cameras are going to increase fairly substantially.
We've already seen this with the K3III.

Such is the economics of the camera industry.

[reh321]

This is why the low end of the market is being abandoned. The sales numbers aren't there, the ROI isn't there. Unfortunately for consumers, the massive sales numbers and ultimately decent profit off of entry level has been propping up sales of top end bodies, effectively allowing higher end bodies to sell for less than they really should to achieve a desirable ROI.
I say unfortunately for consumers because the demise of entry level means there is no longer a mass market underwriting the high end market, and so prices of high end cameras are going to increase fairly substantially.
We've already seen this with the K3III.

Such is the economics of the camera industry.

I’m not sure of that.

Looking at recent Pentax talking, they aren’t abandoning those of us in the lower tier, but they are pushing prices up. Since Pentax seems to move in slow motion these days, I believe we haven’t fully seen the total out working of this yet.

[Wheatfield]

I’m not sure of that.

Looking at recent Pentax talking, they aren’t abandoning those of us in the lower tier, but they are pushing prices up. Since Pentax seems to move in slow motion these days, I believe we haven’t fully seen the total out working of this yet.

If low end starts costing close to US$2k, we are going to have to redefine the term low end. The flip side of lower sales on low margin cameras is that they will have to raise prices on those cameras to make back the ROI in fewer sales.

[RobA_Oz]

You didn't read all I've wrote. I did suggest a solution.

If you mean using a higher-resolution AF sensor, in the same manner as the K-3III's you still need a semi-transparent section of the mirror. I did read all that you wrote, and the bit about having a brighter viewfinder because you didn't need a semi-transparent mirror contradicts this. Of course, you could use the AF sensor with the main mirror up and the shutter closed to feed a hybrid viewfinder, but then you'd still need a secondary mirror in place to reflect the image onto it. Complicated, but not impossible, and I don't think that's what you meant. Take away the misleading bit about replacing the semi-transparent mirror and what you wrote makes more sense.

[jersey]

You didn't read all I've wrote. I did suggest a solution.

You want to get rid of PDAF sensor and use RGB one. But you still need to feed RGB sensor with light and if you do, it means that you will loose some light in same way as using PDAF only.

[Bluemate]

Hey. I`m new here but have been a pentax user for a long time. Just when was getting ready to get the K3 Mark III read an article that gave me anxiety

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/is-ricoh-about-to-leave-the-camera-industry

I havent found any news about it except in this article. Anyone found something like that lately?

[Parallax]

Hey. I`m new here but have been a pentax user for a long time. Just when was getting ready to get the K3 Mark III read an article that gave me anxiety

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/is-ricoh-about-to-leave-the-camera-industry

I havent found any news about it except in this article. Anyone found something like that lately?

2022 is the 65th anniversary of Pentax. The first being Asahi Pentax. I believe it is also the 65th anniversary of the first rumor that Pentax is doomed, and won't be around much longer.