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12-10-2022, 04:29 PM - 2 Likes   #1
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Others speculation about Pentax K-1III

Okay, since the last thread about an article with some speculation, which turned out to be mainly old news presented with a negative spin, went down the drain, for good, this might not be new, but I thought it is some interesting speculation and with a much more positive spin, so maybe this is something appreciated here? If not, moderators, feel free to close it, thanks.

https://photofocus.com/photography/will-we-ever-see-a-pentax-k-1-iii-a-new-p...ests-we-might/

And beside the (now revealed) new camera, that actually got presented and turned out to be the KF, there are some interesting thoughts. And it's true, a K-1III with just the natural improvements already developed would be a absolutely fantastic camera. The only problem I could see for Ricoh with it would be that it could be considered by many as the last camera they would ever need. But here the afterbuy money must be earned by accessories, go Ricoh, I know people would buy new flashes, e.g. a ringflash, new lenses etc... I think especially for landscape and field photography Ricoh DSLRs could still survive as the robust capable tools they are and here the accessories should be provided for that.


Last edited by MMVIII; 12-10-2022 at 04:49 PM.
12-10-2022, 04:46 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Okay, since the last thread about an article with some speculation, which turned out to be mainly old news presented with a negative spin, went down the drain, for good, this might not be new, but I thought it is some interesting speculation and with a much more positive spin, so maybe this is something appreciated here? If not, moderators, feel free to close it, thanks.

https://photofocus.com/photography/will-we-ever-see-a-pentax-k-1-iii-a-new-p...ests-we-might/

And beside the now revealed new camera, that actually got presented and turned out to be the KF, there are some interesting thoughts. And it's true, a K-1III with just the natural improvements already developed would be a absolutely fantastic camera. The only problem I could see for Ricoh with it would be that it could be considered by many as the last camera they would ever need. But here the afterbuy money must be earned by accessories, go Ricoh, I know people would buy new flashes, e.g. a ringflash, new lenses etc... I think especially for landscape and field photography Ricoh DSLRs could still survive as the robust capable tools they are and here the accessories should be provided for that.
Maybe some visual hints or prototype under glass in late January or February with a late spring to early summer release cycle would be nice and follow the original K1 release schedule.
12-10-2022, 05:46 PM   #3
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Camera bodies make manufacturers a surprisingly small ROI. They'll do far better to concentrate on lenses once they get a reasonably mature camera body.
12-10-2022, 06:15 PM - 2 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Camera bodies make manufacturers a surprisingly small ROI. They'll do far better to concentrate on lenses once they get a reasonably mature camera body.
That's probably true. I think we just have to see the years around 2010 (121 million sales!)as an anomaly and thus the cycles of new generations hyped. Now there should be around 8 million sales and the logical consequence is trying to get higher margins per model and unit.
It's amazing how capable the K-1 still is, same for the KP. As As Ricoh, in contrast to others, did not ditch the mount, they will have to find other attractors for new lenses to keep people buying. I think the new AF capalities and the fact that it can play to its full potential with a new generation of ultrasonic in lens motors might be an obvious way to keep the attraction high also for existing users with lenses.

12-10-2022, 06:28 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
That's probably true. I think we just have to see the years around 2010 (121 million sales!)as an anomaly and thus the cycles of new generations hyped. Now there should be around 8 million sales and the logical consequence is trying to get higher margins per model and unit.
It's amazing how capable the K-1 still is, same for the KP. As Ricoh, in contrast to others, did not ditch the mount, they will have to find other attractors for new lenses to keep people buying. I think the new AF capalities and the fact that it can play to its full potential with a new generation of ultrasonic in lens motors might be an obvious way to keep the attraction high also for existing users with lenses.
Don’t sell Pentax engineers short. The K-3iii had several unexpected capabilities; I wouldn’t be surprised to see the same thing with a K-1iii. As the KP was a placeholder while they developed the K-3iii, I wouldn’t be surprised if the KF serves a similar role. Then, we’ll be ready for the K-3iv. They may even revive a line that appears dead right now, or even create a lower-tier “FF” line, which would increase the demand for DFA lenses.

Last edited by reh321; 12-10-2022 at 06:33 PM.
12-10-2022, 09:40 PM - 3 Likes   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Camera bodies make manufacturers a surprisingly small ROI. They'll do far better to concentrate on lenses once they get a reasonably mature camera body.
Makes sense as the basic body is a gateway to a particular set of lenses and accessories. The release of the popular D-FA21mm f/2.4 ED ASPH Limited and the rapid selling of the special silver limited editions of the DFA100mm f/2.8 ED Macro are indicative there is still quite a bit of interest in the Pentax camera system.

Pentax/Ricoh should have a sign "I still aten't dead"
12-10-2022, 11:28 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Camera bodies make manufacturers a surprisingly small ROI. They'll do far better to concentrate on lenses once they get a reasonably mature camera body.
I don't know about that. I think it would be interesting to get actual figures. Prime lenses sell in less quantities, but they sell for longer, e.g FA limited. Lenses and camera bodies like apple and oranges?

QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
And it's true, a K-1III with just the natural improvements already developed would be a absolutely fantastic camera. The only problem I could see for Ricoh with it would be that it could be considered by many as the last camera they would ever need.
When I purchased the K1 in 2016, I told myself "36Mpixel is the top resolution in FF cameras, I will never need anything else". I've been looking to upgrade to more than 50Mpixels for the last 3 years. 645Z still deliver better IQ than K1 II, but a K1 III with modern 60Mp sensor would make 645Z irrelevant.

Today, I see image processing power as the bottleneck in cameras, because micro 4/3, and smartphone sensors have sensors with much higher pixel density than apsc and ff cameras have. Those megapixels are very taxing on processing power and memory, so there is a certain bottleneck of image processing in smartphones, computers and cameras, around Mpixels processed per unit of time. Processing power / efficiency will continue to improve, smartphones, computers and cameras will follow the trend, so there will always be some reasons to upgrade.

12-10-2022, 11:49 PM - 1 Like   #8
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My F4s was the last camera, I ever needed. My R6.2 was the same. Now K1 is my very last camera, but sorry it found a good friend in the K3iii. More interesting is that my list does not include a bunch of other cameras like EOS1n, 600x, K5, K3.
There are still many things to improve on cameras. Small steps lead to perfection. I don’t need disruptive changes at the moment.
12-11-2022, 12:20 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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What *I* want to see in the K1iii is the end of SAFOX. PDAF is s dead end. Sensor based detection is the future.

And we already has the start of this in the rgb sensor and the way it is used for af assistance in the K3iii.

Time to move forward, discard PDAF and do something like CANON's Dual Pixel AF, based on an improved rgb sensor.

This way we will also get a brighter viewfinder since no light needs to be transmitted to the PDAF system without a need for a K3iii type prism. The whole PDAF mechanism will be gone - size and cost savings. And more.

That's the main thing in my opinion.

Ofcourse a new sensor - no need for a huge jump in resolution, just a current one with a future.

And ofcourse the K3iii new hardware.

And hopefully faster cards.

But mainly, let's move the AF system to the future.
12-11-2022, 02:29 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by ben-pentax Quote
What *I* want to see in the K1iii is the end of SAFOX. PDAF is s dead end. Sensor based detection is the future.

And we already has the start of this in the rgb sensor and the way it is used for af assistance in the K3iii.

Time to move forward, discard PDAF and do something like CANON's Dual Pixel AF, based on an improved rgb sensor.

This way we will also get a brighter viewfinder since no light needs to be transmitted to the PDAF system without a need for a K3iii type prism. The whole PDAF mechanism will be gone - size and cost savings. And more.

That's the main thing in my opinion.

Ofcourse a new sensor - no need for a huge jump in resolution, just a current one with a future.

And ofcourse the K3iii new hardware.

And hopefully faster cards.

But mainly, let's move the AF system to the future.
On-sensor PDAF works with mirrorless because there’s no mirror (obviously). With a reflex design, you’d have to retain a semi-transparent segment on the mirror for the sensor to be used for focussing. Add to that, that the sensor would have to be activated, so battery life would be less. Great for LiveView though.
12-11-2022, 03:30 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ben-pentax Quote
What *I* want to see in the K1iii is the end of SAFOX. PDAF is s dead end. Sensor based detection is the future.

And we already has the start of this in the rgb sensor and the way it is used for af assistance in the K3iii.

Time to move forward, discard PDAF and do something like CANON's Dual Pixel AF, based on an improved rgb sensor.

This way we will also get a brighter viewfinder since no light needs to be transmitted to the PDAF system without a need for a K3iii type prism. The whole PDAF mechanism will be gone - size and cost savings. And more.

That's the main thing in my opinion.

Ofcourse a new sensor - no need for a huge jump in resolution, just a current one with a future.

And ofcourse the K3iii new hardware.

And hopefully faster cards.

But mainly, let's move the AF system to the future.
In order for you to have PDAF on the sensor you would have to have the mirror up, not? I can't imagine how that would work with a viewfinder. You could do it in live view I suppose, assuming you have the right sensor.

PDAF focus points on the sensor is not a perfect solution though. All of those point create little holes in your image that have to be masked out. This is not an issue at low iso, but as you move up in iso, sensors with PDAF points on them tend to show artifacts and banding much faster -- or they have smearing due to heavy noise reduction that is applied to the RAW images (see Sony's star eater issues).

It doesn't sound like you are wanting an EVF, but honestly, that is the only way that I can imagine what you are suggesting actually working.
12-11-2022, 03:37 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ben-pentax Quote
What *I* want to see in the K1iii is the end of SAFOX. PDAF is s dead end. Sensor based detection is the future.

And we already has the start of this in the rgb sensor and the way it is used for af assistance in the K3iii.

Time to move forward, discard PDAF and do something like CANON's Dual Pixel AF, based on an improved rgb sensor.

This way we will also get a brighter viewfinder since no light needs to be transmitted to the PDAF system without a need for a K3iii type prism. The whole PDAF mechanism will be gone - size and cost savings. And more.

That's the main thing in my opinion.

Ofcourse a new sensor - no need for a huge jump in resolution, just a current one with a future.

And ofcourse the K3iii new hardware.

And hopefully faster cards.

But mainly, let's move the AF system to the future.

There is no tech that would allow for on-sensor AF with enough af point coverage and mirror. You would need some ultra-funky glass material and really sensitive AF points to keep mirror and get AF on sensor with speed and accuracy of PDAF. Of course it would be great to get on-sensor AF while retaining mirror, but I doubt it will ever happen. Maybe when Pentax still had enough money to do funky stuff and camera sales soared through the sky, but not now.

Well, I suppose you could use other wavelengths from outside of visible spectrum that are not absorbed by glass, but you will need an emiter for this, new sensor and software - nope. And on the other hand I doubt it is possible to get PDAF on mirror though that would be funky


As for K-1 Mk III while I am not sure I will ever be a customer, I think we will see up-scaled, maybe a bit reduced (no new pentaprism) version of K-3 Mk III. Same AF system, same image processor, 40-60 Mpx sensor, same software as K-3 Mk III. Probably new body to accommodate same design philosophy as K-3 Mk III with enhanced ergonomics, maybe moon-lander v.2. I do not think it will be revolutionary camera.


If there is another revolution in Pentax I think it will be K-3 Mk IV, and then K-1 Mk IV will get tested and improved maybe tech from smaller brother and cycle will continue.

Last edited by jersey; 12-11-2022 at 03:47 AM.
12-11-2022, 03:47 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by ben-pentax Quote
What *I* want to see in the K1iii is the end of SAFOX. PDAF is s dead end. Sensor based detection is the future.

And we already has the start of this in the rgb sensor and the way it is used for af assistance in the K3iii.

Time to move forward, discard PDAF and do something like CANON's Dual Pixel AF, based on an improved rgb sensor.
Canon's Dual Pixel AF only works in Live View. It was developed for video mostly.
12-11-2022, 03:59 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
On-sensor PDAF works with mirrorless because there’s no mirror (obviously). With a reflex design, you’d have to retain a semi-transparent segment on the mirror for the sensor to be used for focussing. Add to that, that the sensor would have to be activated, so battery life would be less. Great for LiveView though.
You didn't read all I've wrote. I did suggest a solution.
12-11-2022, 04:17 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ben-pentax Quote
You didn't read all I've wrote. I did suggest a solution.
We did read what you wrote. It just doesn't make sense. If the mirror is down, the sensor can't be used for auto focus purposes. It can in live view and the K-70 probably has a sensor that is capable of this (it uses it for video), but I think Pentax has deliberately gotten sensors without PDAF points.

---------- Post added 12-11-22 at 06:21 AM ----------

To the overall theme of the linked to blog, I think Brett is right that Pentax has a lot of avenues that they could pursue with development of a K-1 III. I never really thought that this charger patent was associated with a K-1 III -- it seemed too soon for them to releasing such a camera and there haven't been hints of it yet. Odds were good that this would be some sort of K-70 sequel, which sort of turned out to be correct.

A K-1 III would combine some of the best features of the K-3 III with a high megapixel, full frame sensor. If I were to guess, I would put my money on the end of next year or beginning of 2025. I do think it will be a camera worth waiting for.
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