[Clinton]

I have never seen so much news about Pentax in my news feed as them expressing a passing interest in developing a film camera.

[Lord Lucan]

That's a remarkably common thing... across a range of goods... and it drives me crazy

I don't think it is a case of Joe Public thinking that the makers should design widgets just to suit them. It is more a case that Joe Public believes that everyone else wants exactly the same widget as they do. Or that everyone else does not yet realise that they want it. Or that everyone else needs to be educated that they want it.

For example Lady L's boss always took his holidays on the Costa de Sol in Spain and was amazed that we did not do the same. He assumed that everyone wanted holidays on the Costa de Sol, and the reason we did not was because either we could not afford it or we did not realise how wonderful it was. When he realised we could afford it he tried "educating" Lady L with accounts of how nice the hotel swimming pool was, and how cheap the beer. It didn't work.

I think many people have some exact wants and expectations of a Pentax film camera(s), but they are all different so there are bound to be disappointments and even some anger at the end of the day.

[torashi]

When you look back, I think it’s clear that they have had this idea for a while.



When they announced their philosophy a few years ago, the wording was “Pentax believes in the future of SLR cameras”, notably not excluding film in the scope of the statement.



This year they have started a few things related to film.

- They had an SLR event, that specifically invited film camera users.

- They started selling used cameras in their store, including some refurbished film models.

- They have a service where you can borrow a film camera for a while, choosing from a few legacy models, from Espio to 67.

- They have released some modernized lenses, but when they did, they retained the FA designation, rather than rebranding as DFA.



All this makes me think that the idea of making a modern film camera has been floating around for some time in Pentax.



My guess is that the next step will be to have another fan event and gather some feedback on what kind of camera people want.



As for whether a film camera would be attractive to me, one thing that bothers me about using my MZ5 is getting the CR2 batteries. Having a film camera that uses modern rechargeable packs would be fantastic in itself.

I use rechargeable CR2 batteries with my MZ-S (when the grip is too much), MZ-L and Z-1 models. Get a kit with charger and a few extra from ebay. Not expensive at all.

[TwoUptons]

I don't think it is a case of Joe Public thinking that the makers should design widgets just to suit them. It is more a case that Joe Public believes that everyone else wants exactly the same widget as they do. Or that everyone else does not yet realise that they want it. Or that everyone else needs to be educated that they want it.

For example Lady L's boss always took his holidays on the Costa de Sol in Spain and was amazed that we did not do the same. He assumed that everyone wanted holidays on the Costa de Sol, and the reason we did not was because either we could not afford it or we did not realise how wonderful it was. When he realised we could afford it he tried "educating" Lady L with accounts of how nice the hotel swimming pool was, and how cheap the beer. It didn't work.

I think many people have some exact wants and expectations of a Pentax film camera(s), but they are all different so there are bound to be disappointments and even some anger at the end of the day.

Yeah, OK. That's a different thing, I think... with a side of looking for validation that their own choices were right by convincing others to do it...

But no reason both of those things can't be happening... marketing is a dark art, after all


---------- Post added 01-15-23 at 08:48 AM ----------

The Ricoh GR Digital IV in 2011 had a separate AF sensor which enables hybrid AF. That's the last one I'm aware of. I have a feeling this would not be a huge problem to make, and there would certainly be some people in Pentax or Ricoh who would have a memory of implementing it.

It's the lozenge-shaped window above the circular AF assist lamp - easier to make out on the white version.

...right... but does anyone still make a compatible component? In 2011 there were probably still suppliers for such a thing (or the bits, anyway).
Is that still the case? I have the feeling Ricoh will need to fabricate a lot of things that would have been available as subassemblies from suppliers back when film was a normal thing...
That may be a good thing, as technology has moved on, so maybe a modern IR focusing system, for example, would be better than the old ones...

-Eric

[reh321]

...right... but does anyone still make a compatible component? In 2011 there were probably still suppliers for such a thing (or the bits, anyway).
Is that still the case? I have the feeling Ricoh will need to fabricate a lot of things that would have been available as subassemblies from suppliers back when film was a normal thing...
That may be a good thing, as technology has moved on, so maybe a modern IR focusing system, for example, would be better than the old ones...

-Eric

Presumably, that will be a part of their feasibility study, as will the marketability of a pocketable camera with / with out AF.

[vimlr007]

As for the "K-1 III", Pentax would have liked to release it already, but the problem is parts cost and supply. I spoke to someone from Pentax Japan in August, and he said that they are keeping the K-1 II on the market because it is still such a good deal. If they had released a successor in 2022 it would have been too expensive. So they need to pick the right moment. I don't think the hold-up is lack of development.

When you look at other companies, they released some ILC cameras last year, but mostly APS-C (Pentax is up to date with APS-C) and only four were full frame and two of those were Canon. The others were the Leica M11 and the Sony A7R IV. There seems to be a problem with procuring full frame sensors from Sony at the moment. When this situation gets better, we will see a new camera.

The reason I feel confident a "K-1 III" will come is that the same Pentax employee told me that their full frame series is still their default recommendation for most photographers, despite the existence of the newer and more expensive K-3 III. They wouldn't take that attitude if thy didn't plan to continue the series.

I feel re-assured :-) Thanks !!

[reh321]

I was thinking this morning about the various ‘pocketable’ cameras - even ones I would think of being a ‘#1 or #2 - I’ve owned, and I realized that none of them had a viewfinder which - in my eyes - gave a good view, so meeting that ‘need’ might be the biggest problem faced by Pentax.

[TwoUptons]

I was thinking this morning about the various ‘pocketable’ cameras - even ones I would think of being a ‘#1 or #2 - I’ve owned, and I realized that none of them had a viewfinder which - in my eyes - gave a good view, so meeting that ‘need’ might be the biggest problem faced by Pentax.

Especially based on the average age of Pentax' customers
Though if they are after the "youth" market, that may not be as important...

There have been some compacts with viewfinders especially designed to be amenable to eyeglasses and easy viewing.
The Pentax PC-55/550 come to mind, though there were others from other brands.
The trade for a big, bright viewfinder, though, is a larger camera, and I've only seen them on single focal length cameras, not on zooms that I recall.

I'd like parallax lines, ideally that shift with focus
I had an IQZoom 140 or 160 for a while that had a LCD overlay that did parallax lines. That was pretty cool.

-Eric

[Mistral75]

From Kimio Tanaka:

例のPENTAXの「フィルムカメラ（再開発）プロジェクト」に、なんと、元開発本部長だった北沢利之さんが"手伝って"るんだってねえ。聞いてびっくり・・・でも、ホントかなぁ。

Translation: "I heard that Toshiyuki Kitazawa, former head of the development division, is kind of 'helping' with Pentax's 'film camera (redevelopment) project'. I was surprised to hear that ... but I wonder if it's true."

Source: https://twitter.com/thisistanaka/status/1622199267921371141

Kitazawa-san ten years ago in October 2012, courtesy of Digital Camera Watch:

[reh321]

From Kimio Tanaka:


Translation: "I heard that Toshiyuki Kitazawa, former head of the development division, is kind of 'helping' with Pentax's 'film camera (redevelopment) project'. I was surprised to hear that ... but I wonder if it's true."

Source: https://twitter.com/thisistanaka/status/1622199267921371141

Since I cannot read Japanese, I won’t react to what was said ten years ago, but part of the recent announcement was a desire to tap the wisdom of retired engineers while they are still around and able to give it.

[JPT]

From Kimio Tanaka:


Translation: "I heard that Toshiyuki Kitazawa, former head of the development division, is kind of 'helping' with Pentax's 'film camera (redevelopment) project'. I was surprised to hear that ... but I wonder if it's true."

Source: https://twitter.com/thisistanaka/status/1622199267921371141

Kitazawa-san ten years ago in October 2012, courtesy of Digital Camera Watch:

That’s an interesting find! I remember seeing his name some years ago. I think he was still in the picture well into the digital era.

The only other thing I’ve heard about the film project in the last few weeks is that Pentax are playing their cards very close to their chest on this one. Having said that they are quite keen to emphasize the camera will not be a reissue of any old camera, but a completely newly developed camera.

[ffking]

The best engineers I worked with had an uncanny way of seeing
“flaws beyond the imagination of the best minds”.

I'm sure my wife thinks I should have been an engineer

[reh321]

That’s an interesting find! I remember seeing his name some years ago. I think he was still in the picture well into the digital era.

The only other thing I’ve heard about the film project in the last few weeks is that Pentax are playing their cards very close to their chest on this one. Having said that they are quite keen to emphasize the camera will not be a reissue of any old camera, but a completely newly developed camera.

When Pentax made their initial announcement, I thought “How unlike Pentax”, but now I believe that was just to ‘prime the pump’. Now they will ‘leak’ only enough ‘news’ to keep us thinking about their film project until they decide where to go.

[JPT]

When Pentax made their initial announcement, I thought “How unlike Pentax”, but now I believe that was just to ‘prime the pump’. Now they will ‘leak’ only enough ‘news’ to keep us thinking about their film project until they decide where to go.

Well, I'm expecting more videos. I say that because one of the videos had #01 in the title, and there is a special page for the project, with a section "From the Project Team", which seems to imply there will be more videos to fill it.

Film Project/ PENTAX | RICOH IMAGING

It wouldn't be the first time to do this. They had eight development videos about the K-3 III.

And given that the videos so far had English subtitles, I think they will continue to do that. No idea how often they will come out with new videos, though.

What I would love to see next is interviews with the old and new engineers where they talk about what is different between designing digital and film cameras. They have a real chance to tell a story with these videos of how the project goes forward. That would work very well to keep the interest level up, since the whole idea they explained in the first videos seems to have struck an emotional chord with a lot of viewers.

[reh321]

Well, I'm expecting more videos. I say that because one of the videos had #01 in the title, and there is a special page for the project, with a section "From the Project Team", which seems to imply there will be more videos to fill it.

Film Project/ PENTAX | RICOH IMAGING

It wouldn't be the first time to do this. They had eight development videos about the K-3 III.

And given that the videos so far had English subtitles, I think they will continue to do that. No idea how often they will come out with new videos, though.

What I would love to see next is interviews with the old and new engineers where they talk about what is different between designing digital and film cameras. They have a real chance to tell a story with these videos of how the project goes forward. That would work very well to keep the interest level up, since the whole idea they explained in the first videos seems to have struck an emotional chord with a lot of viewers.

Assuming they have another “community meeting” at the end of the month,

There is likely to be another Pentax (not necessarily J Limited) event at the end of this month. They have had one every three months to preview with the next seasonal firmware release, so given that the last one was November 23, I would expect the enxt to be announced very soon. Then there may be something more substantial to discuss.

that would be a perfect opportunity to continue providing information {and to see what interest is there}