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01-14-2023, 12:27 AM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
That sounds very interesting. If you have the link to the samples, I think it would be worth starting a new thread on that.
Agreed !

01-14-2023, 02:58 AM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Another source close to Pentax explained that this is a side project that will probably be about 5% of Pentax's resources, so it won't have much of an impact on digital development. In the video, Suzuki-san also says that is doesn't mean they are moving away from digital.
Sounds re-assuring, but if they get as far as making an interchangeable lens film SLR, and satisfying at least half the people here that it must behave like retro, Pentax will have to develop new lenses for it too - at least three of them or there will be no point in them being interchangeable. If the potential buyers are not satisfied with a film camera off the used market, they will want new lenses too.

But look at how long Pentax takes to produce each new lens! Producing new lenses for a ILC film camera film is bound to take significant resources away from producing them for digital, unless Pentax plan a significant company expansion. Perhaps their idea is to test the film market first with the P&S, but surely P&S and SLR are very different markets, even though they use the same film.

As for not moving away from digital, I view this project with the same unease as if I saw the captain of my ship putting provisions into a lifeboat. Things may not reach the point of needing to use it, but it looks like preparations for an escape route for possibly not-too-distant eventualities.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 01-14-2023 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Clarity
01-14-2023, 03:24 AM - 2 Likes   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Sounds re-assuring, but if they get as far as making an interchangeable lens film SLR, and satisfying at least half the people here that it must behave like retro, Pentax will have to develop new lenses for it too - at least three of them or there will be no point in them being interchangeable. If the potential buyers are not satisfied with a film camera off the used market, they will want new lenses too.

But look at how long Pentax takes to produce each new lens! Producing new lenses for a ILC film camera film is bound to take significant resources away from producing them for digital, unless Pentax plan a significant company expansion. Perhaps their idea is to test the film market first with the P&S, but surely P&S and SLR are very different markets, even though they use the same film.

As for not moving away from digital, I view this project with the same unease as if I saw the captain of my ship putting provisions into a lifeboat. Things may not reach the point of needing to use it, but it looks like preparations for an escape route for possibly not-too-distant eventualities.
I count six existing lenses that have on lens aperture control, so even if the body is so basic that it doesn’t allow all aperture control from the body, there would be a few new lenses that Pentax’s could market for the camera. The ones I mean are:

- FA 31/1.8
- FA 35/2
- FA 43/1.9
- FA 50/1.4 (the old one)
- DFA 50/2.8 Macro
- FA 77/1.8

If they make the body so it has the latest KAF4 Mount compatibility, any full frame lens will work. This would make sense for Pentax.

If this expands the reach of K-Mount to film users, it could make the business case for making K-Mount lenses stronger, which means more lenses for digital users too.

Last edited by JPT; 01-14-2023 at 03:33 AM.
01-14-2023, 03:31 AM   #634
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Lets try to wait the such camera from Pentax first, developing is not the final product...maybe we never see this camera

01-14-2023, 03:38 AM - 1 Like   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by borisII Quote
Lets try to wait the such camera from Pentax first, developing is not the final product...maybe we never see this camera
Ever the optimist, aren't we?
01-14-2023, 03:53 AM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Ever the optimist, aren't we?
Pessimist is good informed optimist.
My guess - they could produce simple P&S film camera, but I'm not sure about the rest three models...
01-14-2023, 04:09 AM - 5 Likes   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
It equally puzzles, amuses and upsets me that so many people are determined to be unhappy because of what they lack, rather than being happy with what they have.



I would hope you bought those lenses because they are superb. Right now. With the gear you currently have.

Pentax is a niche player - aiming to be small but profitable, rather than chasing market share. They will probably never be "a force" in the way you hope. Mirrorless is almost certainly off the table for the foreseeable future. Make of that opinion what you will.
It reminds me of the people who are constantly pointing out the problems with electric cars. "What if you get caught in a snowstorm in your EV car? I have here a picture of someone with a gas powered generator charging up an electric car..."

Somehow the idea that a company might release products that target anyone but me is damaging to my psyche. Pentax should only release cameras and lenses that I am interested in. Toyota should only put out vehicles that I want to buy. Anything less is a complete failure on the part of brand that doesn't even know that I exist!

01-14-2023, 05:59 AM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
....their full frame series is still their default recommendation for most photographers....
Thanks for this exciting information! Have you heard any noise about new full frame lenses in development other than what's on the roadmap? I'd be interested in buying a Pentax 24-120/4 if one were available.
01-14-2023, 06:45 AM - 1 Like   #639
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QuoteOriginally posted by borisII Quote
Lets try to wait the such camera from Pentax first, developing is not the final product...maybe we never see this camera
I am a retired engineer.

Engineers are professional pessimists - you wouldn’t want it any other way. Yes, we may never see this camera. So? They are exploring the possibility. They find new things only by exploring a bunch, then following some of the paths. They have already said this will not affect the K-1. They have made no such promise about the K-90. I purchased my first SLR back in April 1979. For those 44 years, I have always purchased all that I need, camera and lenses, when I made my initial purchase. Anything after that is “bonus”. I don’t presume on the future. Incidentally, I did purchase some film from B&H the other day - it should arrive soon. I don’t know how long it will be good, but I already have cameras which could use it; if Pentax comes out with an appropriate one during that time, that will be ‘bonus’.

Last edited by reh321; 01-14-2023 at 06:50 AM.
01-14-2023, 07:30 AM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It reminds me of the people who are constantly pointing out the problems with electric cars. "What if you get caught in a snowstorm in your EV car? I have here a picture of someone with a gas powered generator charging up an electric car..."

Somehow the idea that a company might release products that target anyone but me is damaging to my psyche. Pentax should only release cameras and lenses that I am interested in. Toyota should only put out vehicles that I want to buy. Anything less is a complete failure on the part of brand that doesn't even know that I exist!
Very well stated.
01-14-2023, 08:07 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It reminds me of the people who are constantly pointing out the problems with electric cars. "What if you get caught in a snowstorm in your EV car? I have here a picture of someone with a gas powered generator charging up an electric car..."

Somehow the idea that a company might release products that target anyone but me is damaging to my psyche. Pentax should only release cameras and lenses that I am interested in. Toyota should only put out vehicles that I want to buy. Anything less is a complete failure on the part of brand that doesn't even know that I exist!
That's a remarkably common thing... across a range of goods... and it drives me crazy, but sometimes those concerns are grounded in concerns that seem obvious to those of us not intimately involved in the details of an industry...

Why doesn't that car company make model XXX in my market? The real reasons may be safety/emissions or costs of having a unique platform in an untested market, but I don't know anything about details...
Why does this beer company make 47 IPAs and not make a Kölsch? Yeah, I've got no reasons for this this may be my personal bias...
I know there are marketing reasons that make sense to someone, but it's a little frustrating sometimes to those of us on the outside... even if we are ignorant...

I'm really happy Pentax continues to support my 'antiquated', mass-market-orthogonal desire to shoot with a SLR, digital or film... and I hope the market supports this new exploration with film...

I've been thinking about the various cameras proposed in the video, and I think it is possible to get a hybrid mechanical body that works with the existing FA lenses with aperture rings without a battery and with all the DFA lenses with a battery to manage aperture control and focus on the new stuff. That would be cool if someone can still make a mechanical shutter.
I'm pretty sure "camera 3" will functionally be similar to a ZX-5/ZX-6, though I hope they add a portrait orientation half-frame mode for DA lenses. I think that would be slick as all get out and nearly unique in 35mm film cameras (can't do that with your vintage F100...). Was Konica the one who made the switchable format 35mm SLR?

But lately I've been wondering what the compacts should look like...
I think an autofocus compact is probably the way to go for the first one, even if it is a manual wind (I might prefer a manual wind).
A single focal length lens would be neat, but a short zoom is also ok if the lens is good - and it's something not all phones have.
As I recall, there was even a later version of the Espio with a 28-90 lens in the very compact body (though that makes manual wind tricky).
I think the challenge there is AF design. When was the last time someone did an IR autofocus system?
Everything these days focuses with the sensor chip...

There could be an interesting parallel with the SLR series if they make a more mechanical second compact camera to go with a more automatic first one.
Maybe making the second compact a mechanical MF rangefinder... but that is way out of their wheelhouse...
So I don't really know where the second compact will go... I personally hope they don't go all crazy like the Mirai... I don't see that part of the film market coming back...

In both cases they will have to offer something that isn't there now -- something you can't get with a LOMO LC-A, for example...

I guess my perfect film compact (and I promise I won't be offended if they don't make it ) would be something like this...
Pocketable with weather-resistant body or manual wind (with a lever, not a thumbwheel), a 28-90 lens, and a flash. Manual wind and WR would be hard, so one or the other is OK.
Autofocus with manual presets at infinity, "close" and hyperfocal distance with the focus distance showing on the display as it changes with the zoom. Close would be a portrait distance, not a macro...
Fully automatic exposure with bulb, 8-1/500s and a lens aperture with at least a four stop range.
DX coding that can be overridden, mode memory for focus and exposure bias to set a grouping with a quick button push.
Camera should display the shutter/aperture combo and allow "hyper program" shift in lieu of "modes" and a green button to get back to default
Exposure compensation +/- 2 stops at least
Provision for remote release...
If cost savings were required, I would lose the WR, zoom, and manual wind first (though a fixed lens should be f2.8, a zoom can be slower)

-Eric
01-14-2023, 08:47 AM   #642
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New thread with link added

Last edited by Racer X 69; 01-16-2023 at 06:45 PM.
01-14-2023, 06:52 PM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I think the challenge there is AF design. When was the last time someone did an IR autofocus system?
The Ricoh GR Digital IV in 2011 had a separate AF sensor which enables hybrid AF. That's the last one I'm aware of. I have a feeling this would not be a huge problem to make, and there would certainly be some people in Pentax or Ricoh who would have a memory of implementing it.

It's the lozenge-shaped window above the circular AF assist lamp - easier to make out on the white version.

01-14-2023, 07:27 PM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Engineers are professional pessimists - you wouldn’t want it any other way
Many engineering disasters can trace their source to optimistic engineers. Optimists can lack the imagination of the undesirable outcome. (eg. B737 Max). It never fails to amaze me how reality can expose flaws that were beyond the imagination of the best minds.
01-14-2023, 07:32 PM - 1 Like   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
Many engineering disasters can trace their source to optimistic engineers. Optimists can lack the imagination of the undesirable outcome. (eg. B737 Max). It never fails to amaze me how reality can expose flaws that were beyond the imagination of the best minds.
That is precisely why I said “you wouldn’t want it any other way”.
The best engineers I worked with had an uncanny way of seeing
“flaws beyond the imagination of the best minds”.
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