I think the Pentax FF will be announced at Photokina 2010

karma13612 · 01-20-2010, 07:06 AM

That's kinda where I'm at as well, JohnBee.

I have a D90 Nikon and am looking to go to fullframe. The D700 has been looking very inviting. While the Nikon camp has been gearing up for a new D700/800/900??, I have been holding off purchasing the current model.

Of course, the danger in that delay is that I am getting more familiar with Pentax because...

Hubbie has a K20D and absolutely loves it.

I am really impressed with the functionality he has, that only comes in much higher end Nikons. And I love the innovative attitude of Pentax. So, if Pentax comes out with a FF fairly soon, I won't hesitate to switch in an instant to Pentax.

In the short term, I will probably try to find a fast prime lens to get the most low-light juice out of my D90. I prefer natural light, and am finding my D90 just doesn't measure up. The K-x appears to be a winner, but I am still in a holding pattern until Pentax and Nikon announce new bodies.....soon please!!!

Miserere · 01-20-2010, 09:44 AM

I was wondering when this thread would rise from the dead

I thought it would be in August—January seems much too early.

My view: If Pentax come out with a FF camera it will likely use Sony's 25MP CMOS sensor, as featured on their A900 and A850, and Nikon's D3x. This means it will not be a low-light monster camera, although it should have an advantage over the K20D and K-7, but only 1-1.5 stops, unlike the D700/D3, which have a 2-3 stop advantage in low light over APS-C.

.

cwood · 01-20-2010, 10:40 AM

People have been anticipating the launch of a FF pentax for years now and I have never believed it was on the horizon until now. I suspect we will hear official word if not see a working copy before the end of 2010. The timing just seems right to me.

My hope and suspicion is that when Pentax goes FF they go for the low end 5D, D700 rather than the high end (1Ds, D3). The reason for this is that Pentax has always lagged FAR behind in technological wizardry if not in optics. Getting a decent frame rate out of a 25MP sensor would be a daunting task for a company that only just recently managed to bump up their APS-C camera to 4.7fps... and like it or not they will not have a drastically new AF system that will make it anywhere near as fast as the competition. So since their is no hope of this new camera having any appeal to photojournalists or sports photographers and the only other market for a high-end model really would be studio photographers (but 645D is coming out) it would make the most sense to keep the resolution lower in favor of better low light performance, better FPS and better buffer capability. This would be ideal for wedding photogs - and amateurs looking for ISO 999,999.... a much bigger market than 1Ds/D3x

My guess is the two biggest hurdles for the Pentax engineers with a FF body are designing a new shutter (this was noted to be an expensive task they did not want to tackle for K-7) and adding Shake Reduction for a new format. I could be way off on the SR thing but it seems like it might almost need to be re-designed from the ground up for a much larger sensor.

**kmccanta** · 01-20-2010, 12:09 PM

I think this chart implies there will be a K-700 around $800 to keep the K-7 price high.

The trouble might be in how to define that camera so that it is better than the K-x but not as good as K-7???

K-x with weather seals? If they would do a repeat of the DS and bring the pentaprism down to the mid level as well, I would buy one...

-k

kevinschoenmakers · 01-20-2010, 12:55 PM

Why doesn't everyone just keep their keyboards silent about a Pentax FF camera. There's nothing to go on, so just wait until it's actually there.

bunegg · 01-21-2010, 09:03 PM

Cause we are hoping that expressing our view on ff can make it come true

WillCarney · 01-22-2010, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by kevinschoenmakers

Why doesn't everyone just keep their keyboards silent about a Pentax FF camera. There's nothing to go on, so just wait until it's actually there.

A number of years ago they did show a demo FF then promply buried it. I don't think they will have a FF for years. Could be wrong but currently I am looking at other manufacturers. I will put off my purchase till end of year, maybe something will happen. But I doubt it.
William

whatever7 · 01-22-2010, 12:20 PM

I haven't been logged in to this forum in almost a year. It's good to see my old thread got bumped up.

BTW, if a FF is coming, it's spec and price will not be too far away from the A850/A900 twins.

And if Tokina announce full frame f/2.8 zoom lenses this year, I will count it as another sign of Pentax FF coming.

PentaxPoke · 01-22-2010, 01:56 PM

This may sound like a broken record, but where would the Pentax FF lenses come from? They no longer make any zoom lenses that will work on FF. They would have to rely entirely on third party zoom lenses that are made for other mounts and hope they are converted to k eventually. Ned himself talked about the challenges with adding a FF lens to the lineup, and seemed to indicate it was not going to happen any time soon.

Is it possible that Pentax has the resources to:

a) Continue the DA and DA* lines (and hopefully significantly improve the DA*'s)
b) create a new line of lenses for the 645 that is rumored to be released
c) Create another new line of zoom lenses that will work for FF?

The only place Pentax is covered FF is the old FA primes and Limiteds.

I still think FF is wishful thinking. Pentax seems to be spread thin enough as it is. It would be nice to see them focus on making the best APS-C cameras and lenses available.

Kunzite · 01-22-2010, 02:08 PM

Of course they can't rely on third party lenses, they can't go FF that way. But it's not impossible, either: launch the "K-FX" with two standard zooms, e.g. 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8 (would f/4 variants be better? they can't use the 60-250, can they?)
After that, launch FF lenses one after the other. The question is: would they make a profit out of this? Pentax can't afford a loss leader, and Hoya won't accept one.

Mike.P® · 01-22-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

launch the "K-FX" with two standard zooms, e.g. 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8 (would f/4 variants be better? they can't use the 60-250, can they?

I thought I read somewhere here that the 60-250mm was FF compatible?

Kunzite · 01-22-2010, 02:17 PM

I read both: that it is, and that it isn't

And I'm too lazy to check (owning both the lens and a FF Pentax)

Miserere · 01-22-2010, 02:18 PM

PP, I fully agree with you on all points, except the part about Pentax not doing it.

Given the way the market is right now, with every non-4/3 brand having a FF camera, and with so many @#$%*& on the internet demanding a FF camera from Pentax, they're going to have to release it to "save face" and not appear inferior with respect to other brands.

I would love for Pentax to have the guts to say NO to the @#$%*& and concentrate on making kick-arse APS-C cameras and lenses. I want them to devote 100% of their tiny resources to APS-C. In 1-2 years time the only benefit FF has (better high ISO performance) is going to disappear. Sure, FF will always have 1-2 stops advantage in low light, but when APS-C sensors can take very good ISO 6400 and 12,800 images, are 1-2 stops going to be worth the money and the weight? I think not. The K-x's sensor is almost there, and with technologies such as back-lit sensors starting to hit commercial applications we can expect even more improvements.

Most people who say they need a FF camera, don't. And Pentax most certainly does not need a FF camera. Like you said, they're spread thin enough already.

.

cwood · 01-22-2010, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

This may sound like a broken record, but where would the Pentax FF lenses come from?

IMHO they only need two or possibly 3 lenses to launch with a FF body. 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 and maybe a super zoom 28-200 or something of the sort. Depending on what they can pull of the shelf from past production or what they can sort out with licensing through Tamron/Tonika etc this may be a HUGE job or it may be a VERY SMALL task. Only a few people at pentax truly know the answer to that question.

PentaxPoke · 01-22-2010, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Miserere

Most people who say they need a FF camera, don't. And Pentax most certainly does not need a FF camera. Like you said, they're spread thin enough already.

Miserere,

Weren't you the one that wrote that excellent article about FF vs APS-C? I remember reading it some time ago, but I don't have it linked. It should be a "sticky"

01-20-2010, 12:09 PM	#64
kmccanta Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 218	K-700? I think this chart implies there will be a K-700 around $800 to keep the K-7 price high. The trouble might be in how to define that camera so that it is better than the K-x but not as good as K-7??? K-x with weather seals? If they would do a repeat of the DS and bring the pentaprism down to the mid level as well, I would buy one... -k

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01-20-2010, 07:06 AM	#61
karma13612 New Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14	That's kinda where I'm at as well, JohnBee. I have a D90 Nikon and am looking to go to fullframe. The D700 has been looking very inviting. While the Nikon camp has been gearing up for a new D700/800/900??, I have been holding off purchasing the current model. Of course, the danger in that delay is that I am getting more familiar with Pentax because... Hubbie has a K20D and absolutely loves it. I am really impressed with the functionality he has, that only comes in much higher end Nikons. And I love the innovative attitude of Pentax. So, if Pentax comes out with a FF fairly soon, I won't hesitate to switch in an instant to Pentax. In the short term, I will probably try to find a fast prime lens to get the most low-light juice out of my D90. I prefer natural light, and am finding my D90 just doesn't measure up. The K-x appears to be a winner, but I am still in a holding pattern until Pentax and Nikon announce new bodies.....soon please!!!

01-20-2010, 09:44 AM	#62
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	I was wondering when this thread would rise from the dead I thought it would be in August—January seems much too early. My view: If Pentax come out with a FF camera it will likely use Sony's 25MP CMOS sensor, as featured on their A900 and A850, and Nikon's D3x. This means it will not be a low-light monster camera, although it should have an advantage over the K20D and K-7, but only 1-1.5 stops, unlike the D700/D3, which have a 2-3 stop advantage in low light over APS-C. .

01-20-2010, 10:40 AM	#63
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	People have been anticipating the launch of a FF pentax for years now and I have never believed it was on the horizon until now. I suspect we will hear official word if not see a working copy before the end of 2010. The timing just seems right to me. My hope and suspicion is that when Pentax goes FF they go for the low end 5D, D700 rather than the high end (1Ds, D3). The reason for this is that Pentax has always lagged FAR behind in technological wizardry if not in optics. Getting a decent frame rate out of a 25MP sensor would be a daunting task for a company that only just recently managed to bump up their APS-C camera to 4.7fps... and like it or not they will not have a drastically new AF system that will make it anywhere near as fast as the competition. So since their is no hope of this new camera having any appeal to photojournalists or sports photographers and the only other market for a high-end model really would be studio photographers (but 645D is coming out) it would make the most sense to keep the resolution lower in favor of better low light performance, better FPS and better buffer capability. This would be ideal for wedding photogs - and amateurs looking for ISO 999,999.... a much bigger market than 1Ds/D3x My guess is the two biggest hurdles for the Pentax engineers with a FF body are designing a new shutter (this was noted to be an expensive task they did not want to tackle for K-7) and adding Shake Reduction for a new format. I could be way off on the SR thing but it seems like it might almost need to be re-designed from the ground up for a much larger sensor.

01-20-2010, 12:55 PM	#65
kevinschoenmakers Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shanghai Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,509	Why doesn't everyone just keep their keyboards silent about a Pentax FF camera. There's nothing to go on, so just wait until it's actually there.

01-21-2010, 09:03 PM	#66
bunegg Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 82	Cause we are hoping that expressing our view on ff can make it come true

01-22-2010, 10:09 AM	#67
WillCarney Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Bloomington, Illinois Posts: 66	Originally posted by kevinschoenmakers Why doesn't everyone just keep their keyboards silent about a Pentax FF camera. There's nothing to go on, so just wait until it's actually there. A number of years ago they did show a demo FF then promply buried it. I don't think they will have a FF for years. Could be wrong but currently I am looking at other manufacturers. I will put off my purchase till end of year, maybe something will happen. But I doubt it. William

01-22-2010, 12:20 PM	#68
whatever7 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 278 Original Poster	I haven't been logged in to this forum in almost a year. It's good to see my old thread got bumped up. BTW, if a FF is coming, it's spec and price will not be too far away from the A850/A900 twins. And if Tokina announce full frame f/2.8 zoom lenses this year, I will count it as another sign of Pentax FF coming.

01-22-2010, 01:56 PM	#69
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	This may sound like a broken record, but where would the Pentax FF lenses come from? They no longer make any zoom lenses that will work on FF. They would have to rely entirely on third party zoom lenses that are made for other mounts and hope they are converted to k eventually. Ned himself talked about the challenges with adding a FF lens to the lineup, and seemed to indicate it was not going to happen any time soon. Is it possible that Pentax has the resources to: a) Continue the DA and DA* lines (and hopefully significantly improve the DA*'s) b) create a new line of lenses for the 645 that is rumored to be released c) Create another new line of zoom lenses that will work for FF? The only place Pentax is covered FF is the old FA primes and Limiteds. I still think FF is wishful thinking. Pentax seems to be spread thin enough as it is. It would be nice to see them focus on making the best APS-C cameras and lenses available.

01-22-2010, 02:08 PM	#70
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Of course they can't rely on third party lenses, they can't go FF that way. But it's not impossible, either: launch the "K-FX" with two standard zooms, e.g. 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8 (would f/4 variants be better? they can't use the 60-250, can they?) After that, launch FF lenses one after the other. The question is: would they make a profit out of this? Pentax can't afford a loss leader, and Hoya won't accept one.

01-22-2010, 02:14 PM	#71
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	Originally posted by Kunzite launch the "K-FX" with two standard zooms, e.g. 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8 (would f/4 variants be better? they can't use the 60-250, can they? I thought I read somewhere here that the 60-250mm was FF compatible?

01-22-2010, 02:17 PM	#72
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I read both: that it is, and that it isn't And I'm too lazy to check (owning both the lens and a FF Pentax)

01-22-2010, 02:18 PM	#73
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	PP, I fully agree with you on all points, except the part about Pentax not doing it. Given the way the market is right now, with every non-4/3 brand having a FF camera, and with so many @#$%& on the internet demanding a FF camera from Pentax, they're going to have to release it to "save face" and not appear inferior with respect to other brands. I would love for Pentax to have the guts to say NO to the @#$%& and concentrate on making kick-arse APS-C cameras and lenses. I want them to devote 100% of their tiny resources to APS-C. In 1-2 years time the only benefit FF has (better high ISO performance) is going to disappear. Sure, FF will always have 1-2 stops advantage in low light, but when APS-C sensors can take very good ISO 6400 and 12,800 images, are 1-2 stops going to be worth the money and the weight? I think not. The K-x's sensor is almost there, and with technologies such as back-lit sensors starting to hit commercial applications we can expect even more improvements. Most people who say they need a FF camera, don't. And Pentax most certainly does not need a FF camera. Like you said, they're spread thin enough already. .

01-22-2010, 02:19 PM	#74
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	Originally posted by PentaxPoke This may sound like a broken record, but where would the Pentax FF lenses come from? IMHO they only need two or possibly 3 lenses to launch with a FF body. 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 and maybe a super zoom 28-200 or something of the sort. Depending on what they can pull of the shelf from past production or what they can sort out with licensing through Tamron/Tonika etc this may be a HUGE job or it may be a VERY SMALL task. Only a few people at pentax truly know the answer to that question.

01-22-2010, 03:05 PM	#75
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by Miserere Most people who say they need a FF camera, don't. And Pentax most certainly does not need a FF camera. Like you said, they're spread thin enough already. Miserere, Weren't you the one that wrote that excellent article about FF vs APS-C? I remember reading it some time ago, but I don't have it linked. It should be a "sticky"