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01-01-2009, 01:32 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
announcement about changing the colour of the plastic on their cameras; that was so freaking STUPID, and embarrasing, I still can't believe it. And why didn't they introduce SEVERAL colours while they were at it? Just plain dumb..

Why is it stupid? Panasonic is doing it with it's micro 4/3 cam and nobody complains. If it brings more sales, then the goal is obtained and everything is fine.


it IS embarrasing getting snubbed almost everytime I go out to do a shoot where there's other pro photographers.
Only a$$ holes snub other people. Don't forget that many of those "so called" pros made their teeth on a Pentax K1000. The image quality of the Pentax cameras is as good as that of Canon or Nikon, and in most cases, better than equivalent priced Nikon and Canon, so I never feel embarrassed showing my cameras. Do you think Benjikan is embarrassed by his equipment (and I mean his cameras, not...). Some experts even think pictures out of the K20D are made with medium format...

As far as camera color is concerned, Panasonic is having it's micro 4/3 cams in many colors and nobody is complaining, so...If it gives Pentax an opportunity to increase it's sale, I don't see anything stupid or embarrassing in the thing.

01-01-2009, 01:39 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
And in spite of what some of the fanboys and girls have to say, it IS embarrasing getting snubbed almost everytime I go out to do a shoot where there's other pro photographers.
Embarrassment requires exactly one person to happen - a person who feels insecure. That can be the person making the snide comment or the one hearing it. If someone makes a comment about my camera or my car or my music or my bike...it is only embarrassing to me if I let it be so. If you're being hired, your customer should only care about your output, not the tools. And frankly that is the only person that counts...the one writing the check.

In the words of Richard Feynman, "what do you care what other people think?"

As for the colors, it is about differentiation. Both on the part of the manufacturer and the end user. There are some people who want to be different...and something other than black appeals to them. My g/f actually preferred the blue G1 because it was different (so is she). In fact I kinda like Pentax's current tagline ("be interesting"). They aren't selling the uber-spec camera...they are differentiating themselves based on iq, ltd primes, and style. And you can either buy into that and use it to your advantage from an end user standpoint or not. I appreciate the fact that there still are companies that don't want to be McDonalds or Starbucks. I don't eat Big Macs and I drink Peets. I shoot Pentax (and other stuff). I'm different. Works for me...ymmv.

Last edited by nostatic; 01-01-2009 at 01:45 PM.
01-01-2009, 02:06 PM   #18
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In 2009, No ...

You tease Benjikan, as you likely know the answer but I'll guess:

No in 2009

No for PMA2010

I say:

Maybe an announcement of Pro caliber K Mount announced Fall Photokina 2010 for 2011 and still aps-c of course. At somepoint 6 to 8 frames per second must be a Pentax goal for crop sensor format to compete with the pro systems in sports capture, Right? You likely know Canon's non pro 40D and current 50D achieve a bit better than 6fps today and last year. So pentax should be where last years 40D was at by 2011:

Just 2 years & a couple months from now.


Me? I've decided to add a Nikon D700 and 14-24mm 2.8 to my Pentax & Canon logo'd bag of tools in 2009. Its the only photo equiptment I'll buy new this year.


So for me in 2009 I'll have my fastest fps machine I ever owned especially when I add the nikon drive to D700. 6 to 8 frames per second will be a blast!!!

I'm excited with my new roadmap equiptment plan for 2009.

And my K20D is still the best dslr I know of to use my various SMC-A's , FA's, F's , Tamron Adaptall 2 lenses via an image stabilized inbody.

As time goes by it seems the best pentax system for me now includes Canon full frame (2008) & soon Nikon full frame (2009) too.

Pentax full frame? I'm no longer interested.

Happy New Year!


QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will Pentax go Pro? When I say Pro, I mean a camera that many of the Canon and Nikon journalists as well as commercial photographers require. I am a pro and have no problem with the K20D, but there are those out there that demand faster AF, synch speed and FPS. Pentax is still fringe in the pro market and I would love to see a Flagship Model.

Will a pro Pentax increase the stature of their brand?

Ben

Oh and Happy New Years to all.
01-01-2009, 03:46 PM   #19
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If you would be so kind...

tell us how the AF performance is on the 700 compared to the Pentax. Just curious...

And you don't have to be a pro sports photographer like the whiners/fanboys always talk about. Try shooting your dog/cat in a dark part of the house sometime... you'll miss a LOT of those shots, too. Or your kid running around in the shadows outside - wrr wrrr wrrrrr - "Why won't this damn thing fire?" Another priceless moment missed....

Manual focus is faster on these things; it truly is. Maybe they should just bring back split-screens and be done with it. You know, return to the 70's...



Just hoping to improve the brand; Pentax has left it so long now they absolutely HAVE to do something.

Sincerely,
Cameron

QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
You tease Benjikan, as you likely know the answer but I'll guess:

No in 2009

No for PMA2010

I say:

Maybe an announcement of Pro caliber K Mount announced Fall Photokina 2010 for 2011 and still aps-c of course. At somepoint 6 to 8 frames per second must be a Pentax goal for crop sensor format to compete with the pro systems in sports capture, Right? You likely know Canon's non pro 40D and current 50D achieve a bit better than 6fps today and last year. So pentax should be where last years 40D was at by 2011:

Just 2 years & a couple months from now.


Me? I've decided to add a Nikon D700 and 14-24mm 2.8 to my Pentax & Canon logo'd bag of tools in 2009. Its the only photo equiptment I'll buy new this year.


So for me in 2009 I'll have my fastest fps machine I ever owned especially when I add the nikon drive to D700. 6 to 8 frames per second will be a blast!!!

I'm excited with my new roadmap equiptment plan for 2009.

And my K20D is still the best dslr I know of to use my various SMC-A's , FA's, F's , Tamron Adaptall 2 lenses via an image stabilized inbody.

As time goes by it seems the best pentax system for me now includes Canon full frame (2008) & soon Nikon full frame (2009) too.

Pentax full frame? I'm no longer interested.

Happy New Year!


01-01-2009, 04:10 PM   #20
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I can't yet. haven't bought it (yet)

I will when I have D700.

I only recently decided for sure to add D700 to my tool kit.

Sometimes it takes me a couple months to align my ducks in a row, but I am certain it will happen. Just like when pentax launched K20D for $1,299, within a couple days I decided I'd buy a 5D, then another 5D and various new lenses from canon. All done in one year, last year (2008) for $10,000 outlay.

In the meantime I will say my Canon 5D prosumer dslr is far better than k20d autofocus. And its a 3 fps 2005 non pro body versus pentax Best 2008 technology. Canon wins due to their USM lens motors. I can override af just by grabbing lens. No switch to flip, button to change. By design Canon USM is why canon has dominated the sidelines of professional sports. until you own a canon body with 70-200mm 2.8L IS its rather easy for people to dismiss its superiority in daylight and lowlight. I like a camera that shoots when I push the shutter button irregardless to lighting or lack of lighting and autofocus thats crazy fast with very little hunting:

More keepers than misses.

Still K20D is best at driving my K Mount lenses. So I'll continue with pentax K20D and old glass for now.

Once I have D700 inhand I can see the possibility of cashing out my pentax equiptment. But the D700 add on is not based on this assumption instead it may just be a logical outcome.

QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
tell us how the AF performance is on the 700 compared to the Pentax. Just curious...

And you don't have to be a pro sports photographer like the whiners/fanboys always talk about. Try shooting your dog/cat in a dark part of the house sometime... you'll miss a LOT of those shots, too. Or your kid running around in the shadows outside - wrr wrrr wrrrrr - "Why won't this damn thing fire?" Another priceless moment missed....

Manual focus is faster on these things; it truly is. Maybe they should just bring back split-screens and be done with it. You know, return to the 70's...



Just hoping to improve the brand; Pentax has left it so long now they absolutely HAVE to do something.

Sincerely,
Cameron
01-01-2009, 04:16 PM   #21
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Cambo: the D700 AF is significantly faster than that of K20D. Happy now?
Samsungian, "I can override af just by grabbing lens" - that's called quick-shift focus in Pentax land. We're not THAT much behind, you know?
01-01-2009, 04:37 PM   #22
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Must agree to cambo.. very often you just dont need the dead on precision, or sports FPS, just decent and trusty lock on subject..

Must say my opinion cant be really objective since im using k100d and as i have read k20d has addressed many of those issues.

But some times, shooting moving (not fast) people, with some F4..5.6 (means approx 1m dof @ wide-normal focal lengths) its already there after first prediction, but after the precision hunting subject has already moved out of focus. How about some simple, smart tricks (focus precision vs dof, faster, rough mode, hyper focal mode). Why not put separate AF assist LED (+10$ max, for high brightness one..), if the AF performance is well known.

IMHO If talking about PRO camera, i dont think there must be one. More like a fully featured mid range/advanced-amateur camera, with major requests fulfilled and best of what Pentax already has/had before implemented in current camera. Its just very annoying, to have camera that you love in every other aspect, but it has some minor, simple things keeping you away from full joy of using it.
Makes me want to cry, to take a canon 400d (knowing its price and that much superior k10d is ofter compared to it) with a dark, small VF, ergonomics that hurts your hands, crippled shooting modes, no SR, and so many people using it only because its canon (thus having confidence in investment) but in the end actually get the shot with correct exposure and locked AF before the subject decides that im just playing with lens (as it happens with k100d), while indoors under not so bright 100w tungsten.
As i have stated in previous posts, it also makes you wonder how serious is Pentax/hoya about making cameras.. do they know what users want, have future development plans. or one day ill be left with obsolete, k100d with broken shutter, bunch of non supported glass expensive DA and no further path to go.

If a fully featured camera (call it PRO if you like) satisfy those who actually need it and clearly show its place.. .. that there is a support, response to customer needs, there is a serious intention to make DSLRS/ PK cameras, continue competitive DA lens and APS-C camera line... then it is very needed and expected.
Now it seems unclear, with what Pentax might come or not come up few years later...might be just some p'n's, like Kodak, might be similar as today, or just MF line for example (and dump DA's like they did with FA's...).
To day there is k20d.. its a little wonder, but there is no clear vision what we might expect from tomorrow.

I might sound a little pessimistic, but very often people tend to notice only the bad and take the good as granted...maybe that's the case with me. And apologies for my bad English.

Last edited by ytterbium; 01-01-2009 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Correcting Horifying English
01-01-2009, 05:39 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will Pentax go Pro? When I say Pro, I mean a camera that many of the Canon and Nikon journalists as well as commercial photographers require. I am a pro and have no problem with the K20D, but there are those out there that demand faster AF, synch speed and FPS. Pentax is still fringe in the pro market and I would love to see a Flagship Model.
Happy New Year Ben.

Well I would like to see them go pro.
Pentax do still make a couple of primes that is the sole reason I am still around here...

Now going "pro" for me would ideally be one of two roads...

Either bring out a 645D somewhere between summer and end this year would be OK.

or

A compact high quality 35mm digital to work with the FA limiteds.
talk about a dram of a travel camera

The D3 is more than camera enough for most of my assignments, but I will need to add a high MP system within a year if business continues as it does right now.

Now to produce a D3 replacement for me, they would need:
35mm sensor
100% viewfinder
Integrated grip
Rougher build.
High capasity battery
AF improvements
FPS improvements
High ISO improvement
DR improvements
Weathersealed replacements for my 14-24/2.8 and 70-200VR
A service and support structure similar to NPS or CPS.

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will a pro Pentax increase the stature of their brand?

Ben

Oh and Happy New Years to all.
Well tough question to answer. I have never been questioned about what I shoot, only excemption is contracts requiring 35mm format to be used...

Yes some places it will, but the work that you and other high end photogs deliver from it is IMHO far more important.

And actually I do not think they have such a bad stature, most of the "pros" I meet are fairly respectful about Pentax.

I do not expect pentax to deliver anything down the lines I have described above, but one can dream right

I am not sure Pentax has the size to go head to head with the big two...
Say landscape and studio, a 645D would be a very very welcome addition to the line up.
For travel photography a 35mm camera taylored to fit the FA limiteds would be a dreal come true.

QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
tell us how the AF performance is on the 700 compared to the Pentax. Just curious...
Yes it is notisably faster, somewhere between the D3 and D300 in terms of speed.
But also more advanced, meaning that there is a learning curve getting it to perform for your style of shooting.

01-01-2009, 06:21 PM   #24
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One thing I do remember Pentax saying along time ago and I think it will continue, they did not consider high fps 35mm film "PRO" but MF was. I actually hope that they do release the 645D, that will have them competing in a market they can win since it will be hard to convince many to just ship to pentax in FF digital.
01-01-2009, 06:37 PM   #25
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I doubt that a Pro model is in the works.

Didn't Pentax recently state that they aim to be a niche player, somewhat like Subaru is in the automobile industry? How does an SLR aimed at professionals fit with that concept? It is possible that they will roll the dice with a MF digital camera, but I highly doubt that they will ever be able to attract many pros with a camera that merely matches what the competition already offer, especially if they do not have a complete pro level system to accompany it.

My hope is that Pentax survives and continues to produce high quality cameras and lenses at reasonable prices for enthusiasts such as myself.

Rob
01-01-2009, 08:39 PM   #26
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Depends really on how one would define pro. Some professionals still gut it out with film, and don't see the need to go digital. You would know that yourself, Ben, since you shoot with the much maligned (by armchair analysts more so than real reviewers) K20D.

If you're asking for faster AF and higher FPS, well, Pentax will eventually get there (they have to if they hope to survive), but like others have said, they will never be state-of-the-art or leading-edge. So to those of you whining, accept that and move on to other brands. Premium perfomance (and much more so, the name on the pentaprism hump to avoid embarrassment) comes at a price.

Again, I still wonder why people who forever complain about missed shots not move on to the better-established brands. Prices are falling, for the most part, and you can cash in your Pentax stuff while it still has value (that's because Pentax is dumb and will die in two years or so). The moment I realize I'm getting very few keepers, I'll be jumping to another brand in short order.
01-01-2009, 08:44 PM   #27
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I'm not an expert on SLR history, but my impression was that the Pentax brand was relatively stronger in the film days. Then Canikon probably rode the digital wave better and positioned themselves with high end "pro" products, a bit in fashion and mostly in sports. The brand strength then trickled down to consumer-level products, especially since many new camera users (mostly P&S) had no previous brand association.

If Pentax/Hoya were to go up against Canikon with the same strategy, it'd fail miserably. I feel like there needs to be some sort of paradigm shift, much like digital, that Pentax could latch onto, but which the other players might not think was worth pursuing. Maybe medium format? Or making optics for popular camera phones?
01-01-2009, 09:08 PM   #28
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A 645D would be a good for Pentax to be perceived as Pro... But a camera alone can't do it all. Pentax needs an integrated long term marketing plan with top commercial photogs. Kerrick James is great but they need to start recruiting more. The Pentax Pro camera can be a 645D, 39 MP whatever. But if Pentax doesn't seem like a professional brand, by increasing brand awareness among top commercial photogs, in other words, if no one else is using this camera that is so "PRO", it's dead in the water.
01-01-2009, 09:52 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will Pentax go Pro? When I say Pro, I mean a camera that many of the Canon and Nikon journalists as well as commercial photographers require. I am a pro and have no problem with the K20D, but there are those out there that demand faster AF, synch speed and FPS. Pentax is still fringe in the pro market and I would love to see a Flagship Model.
Pentax will have to dump their all new DA* and redesign them with ring SDM. They will also need to work on not just fps but mirror dampening, P-TTL flash accuracy, predictive and low EV AF. What is the chance that all these would be materialized in the near future?

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will a pro Pentax increase the stature of their brand?
1 or 2 flagship bodies might give Pentax fans something to brag about, but it is the ongoing commitment throughout the years and decades that brings confidence outside the Pentax community.
01-01-2009, 10:32 PM   #30
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Hi Ben and happy new year.I am not a pro photographer but I do agree the k20d is adequate.I think they will upgrade considerably from the k20d and I have a feeling a full format at pma 09 will be announced,so I think pentax is right up there.As far as gaining stature I feel its not going to make a difference.

Last edited by pentaxdude; 01-01-2009 at 10:43 PM.
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