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01-01-2009, 11:29 PM   #31
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I am giving pentax until Photokina THIS year to release their FF camera, otherwise I will have to jump ship..
so hedging all bets, i say we see a pro model FF THIS year still.

there are a number of pro togs that I speak too that ALL used pentax film cameras before changing to digital who said they would be seriously tempted to go back to pentax if they bring out a pro FF.. some of them even have their old pentax glass still.. just waiting "for the day when..."

01-02-2009, 01:07 AM   #32
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It's photographers that go pro, not camera brands... Camera brands are pro because they make money out of selling cameras to their customers. If a photographer want to be pro, selling his/her pictures is what matters. Depending on the kind of sellable pictures the photographer is capable of producing requirements will vary, and for some (as you Ben) Pentax already provides what it takes. Many dream of faster cameras thinking these will help them not miss the moment so their pictures will finally be pro... dream on I say... There's so much more than just the moment.

talk, talk, talk...

Wim
01-02-2009, 01:47 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will Pentax go Pro? When I say Pro, I mean a camera that many of the Canon and Nikon journalists as well as commercial photographers require. I am a pro and have no problem with the K20D, but there are those out there that demand faster AF, synch speed and FPS. Pentax is still fringe in the pro market and I would love to see a Flagship Model.

Will a pro Pentax increase the stature of their brand?

Ben

Oh and Happy New Years to all.
That is definitely the direction they need to move in. The need for a flagship model is there.I think the question is how far, and how quickly they can move ahead. Is there going to be a high-spec APS-C model, or something else?
Personally I would be more than pleased to see a Pentax alternative to the FF Nikons,Canons and Sonys, and would be willing to buy one.
However, I wouldn´t count on seeing such a model in the immediate future, and we may have to live with one more APS-C generation.
The other thing is that the lens range needs to be expanded. It is taking all too long to get new lenses out.
01-02-2009, 01:51 AM   #34
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Don't forget to mention...

QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
We've been waiting since about 1995 for this alleged 'flagship' model that never seems to come. We get photos released ten years later of MZ-1's that should have been done. The 'almost' great MZ-S, along with an almost full-frame digital camera in 2000, then three or four years behind everybody. The *ist D whose only claim to fame was that it's small. They've been dropping the ball on their cameras since the early 90's.
... their 'almost attempt' at a digital medium format rig.

-A

01-02-2009, 03:35 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
I am giving pentax until Photokina THIS year to release their FF camera, otherwise I will have to jump ship..
so hedging all bets, i say we see a pro model FF THIS year still.

there are a number of pro togs that I speak too that ALL used pentax film cameras before changing to digital who said they would be seriously tempted to go back to pentax if they bring out a pro FF.. some of them even have their old pentax glass still.. just waiting "for the day when..."
You'll be disapointed 100% not only by Pentax but by the very fact that Photokina will not be held this year. So yo may well jump ship now ...

Radu
01-02-2009, 04:17 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
And in spite of what some of the fanboys and girls have to say, it IS embarrasing getting snubbed almost everytime I go out to do a shoot where there's other pro photographers.
I take my FA* 300mm f2.8 with me just to shut them up. It's all about size to those types of people

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01-02-2009, 04:41 AM   #37
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Supported 200%, But..

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will Pentax go Pro? When I say Pro, I mean a camera that many of the Canon and Nikon journalists as well as commercial photographers require. I am a pro and have no problem with the K20D, but there are those out there that demand faster AF, synch speed and FPS. Pentax is still fringe in the pro market and I would love to see a Flagship Model.

Will a pro Pentax increase the stature of their brand?

Ben

Oh and Happy New Years to all.
Ben, I fully support your thinking and thats what I have been asking for years.

But the reality is there is no Pro DSLR from Pentax as told, not in the foreseeable future. The fact is today's mainstream DSLR's "Pro" standard has already been and must be Full Frame, which Pentax and Samsung lack and has no plan and roadmap to go for (they both told that in Photokina!)

And yes, Pros can use the K20D or even an *ist D to do their works (just because they are knowledge Pros with unbelieveable high skill sets). But I am afraid there are just not much Pros out there will choose like that.

Now that even beginners and most mid-level amateurs don't choose Pentax (in 2008, in Japan), what expectation should we really old Pentaxians should and could have?
01-02-2009, 04:43 AM   #38
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i dont think Pentax need to rush in into FF this year..

off course i will be glad to see a new Flagship, but the price will be touching sky, it will be only limited people who will be able to buy that.


in other hand

me prefer they fix all the small things in future K30, including those infamous AF problem. and introducing all smart technology, while lowering the price of previous model.

01-02-2009, 05:41 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
But the reality is there is no Pro DSLR from Pentax as told, not in the foreseeable future. The fact is today's mainstream DSLR's "Pro" standard has already been and must be Full Frame, which Pentax and Samsung lack and has no plan and roadmap to go for (they both told that in Photokina!)
Seems you forgot about this piece of news where Samsung stated they are working on the design for a FF sensor.

And don't forget it was only 2006 when Nikon said they were not looking at a full frame body.

It will happen for Pentax one day but no one knows when that day, (or even year), is.

bazz.
01-02-2009, 05:50 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
1 or 2 flagship bodies might give Pentax fans something to brag about, but it is the ongoing commitment throughout the years and decades that brings confidence outside the Pentax community.
Agreed. Hoya is still fairly new to the game, so it remains to be seen how they intend to steer the Pentax ship. By this year, though, they would have already had enough time to finish up reorganization and all. What they announce and release this year would be telling on how much effort they're giving this imaging division of Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
A 645D would be a good for Pentax to be perceived as Pro... But a camera alone can't do it all. Pentax needs an integrated long term marketing plan with top commercial photogs. Kerrick James is great but they need to start recruiting more. The Pentax Pro camera can be a 645D, 39 MP whatever. But if Pentax doesn't seem like a professional brand, by increasing brand awareness among top commercial photogs, in other words, if no one else is using this camera that is so "PRO", it's dead in the water.
There are many professionals using Pentax (of course, not as many as the big two, but they're not one or two in number also), just not much high-profile ones. I agree that it's not just a new body or two that will make Pentax appealing to pro photographers, but the existence of a professional support system, like Canon and Nikon has, and make it available the world over, and not just the US. I would think that that professional support system would bring more pros into the fold than me-too pro-spec camera releases.

I have zero need for such a system, being a simple amateur, but pros need that for their daily grind and more importantly, their livelihood, which then makes it all the more important for them to get top-notch service when sh*t happens.

QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
I am giving pentax until Photokina THIS year to release their FF camera, otherwise I will have to jump ship..
so hedging all bets, i say we see a pro model FF THIS year still.

there are a number of pro togs that I speak too that ALL used pentax film cameras before changing to digital who said they would be seriously tempted to go back to pentax if they bring out a pro FF.. some of them even have their old pentax glass still.. just waiting "for the day when..."
I don't see an FF camera in the offing this year, dour as it may seem. Like others have mentioned, Pentax would have to announce a whole slew of FF-compatible lenses should they also announce an FF DSLR. Sure, they might surprise us (and I like those kinds of surprises), but recent interviews given point to better APS-C models than FF ones.

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Ben, I fully support your thinking and thats what I have been asking for years.

But the reality is there is no Pro DSLR from Pentax as told, not in the foreseeable future. The fact is today's mainstream DSLR's "Pro" standard has already been and must be Full Frame, which Pentax and Samsung lack and has no plan and roadmap to go for (they both told that in Photokina!)

And yes, Pros can use the K20D or even an *ist D to do their works (just because they are knowledge Pros with unbelieveable high skill sets). But I am afraid there are just not much Pros out there will choose like that.

Now that even beginners and most mid-level amateurs don't choose Pentax (in 2008, in Japan), what expectation should we really old Pentaxians should and could have?
I'll attribute the lack of interest by Japanese in new Pentax cameras to possibly poor marketing (I'm not in Japan, so I wouldn't know how it is there), a high price point for the K-m, and the lack of brand awareness since pros carry a Nikon or Canon for the most part.
01-02-2009, 06:00 AM   #41
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Will Pentax come out with a “professional” camera in the near future? I don’t know for sure but I suspect they might IF Hoya/Pentax thinks it is necessary to increase their market share. Ego issues aside it will be a business decision in the final analysis.

I don’t doubt that if enough money and research were put into the effort Pentax could produce a cutting edge camera. I suspect there are enough Pentax users out there to support such an effort but I can only speak for myself. Even if such a camera were produced it would probably be similar in price to comparable Nikon and Canon bodies. I guess that would fall into the $4,000 - $5,000 range? Such units would be far beyond the reach or needs of the vast majority of the market including myself. I guess I fall into a category of “advanced amateur”, whatever that means. I have a K10 and while I use many of the features of this camera there are many others I never use. I know the same would be true of a “pro” camera should it eventually appear. Certainly almost all users would welcome a higher AF rate and higher ISO. I know I would like to see advances in these areas. Pentax must improve here and I’m pretty sure the next generation of cameras will address these areas. I suppose a flagship “pro” model would be nice. It would be especially nice if some of its best features trickled down into a camera I could actually afford.


In the meantime Pentax continues to produce some of the best prime lenses out there and continues its admirable policy of backward compatibility. It is this policy that kept me in the Pentax fold when I went digital in the first place. Whatever direction this firm takes in the future I hope this is one area they continue to dedicate themselves to.

Cheers,

Tom G

Last edited by 8540tomg; 01-02-2009 at 10:06 AM. Reason: typo
01-02-2009, 06:24 AM   #42
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Hmm I don't see why not, I mean look at the k20d it was almost pro just minus the autofocus and a few megapixels.

So a k20d upgrade should be at pro level anyway maybe 21 megapixels, it will have better autofocus, it will be weather sealed as before. The only question is will it be full frame or not, I don't think it will be else they'd have to relaunch the DA* lenses...

I think if they did though it'd do very well especially will the current economics people would have to take a second look at pentax because of the cost differences for the same IQ
and that'd do them good.

Last edited by dopeytree; 01-02-2009 at 06:33 AM.
01-02-2009, 06:31 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Ben, I fully support your thinking and thats what I have been asking for years.

But the reality is there is no Pro DSLR from Pentax as told, not in the foreseeable future. The fact is today's mainstream DSLR's "Pro" standard has already been and must be Full Frame, which Pentax and Samsung lack and has no plan and roadmap to go for (they both told that in Photokina!)

And yes, Pros can use the K20D or even an *ist D to do their works (just because they are knowledge Pros with unbelieveable high skill sets). But I am afraid there are just not much Pros out there will choose like that.

Now that even beginners and most mid-level amateurs don't choose Pentax (in 2008, in Japan), what expectation should we really old Pentaxians should and could have?
I'm sorry but what about all the olympus travel photographers? they use the thirds system! They had the E-3 Olympus - E-3 and that had the worlds fastest autofocus! So you can't say Full frame is the win all.
01-02-2009, 06:32 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I would think that that professional support system would bring more pros into the fold than me-too pro-spec camera releases.

You're right about the support system, but it's going to be very hard to justify the expense of maintaining such a system if there's only a small percentage of pros using Pentax cameras. I think we get blinded to the overall picture sometimes because we already have an investment in Pentax. For Pentax to be a player in the pro ranks, they can't just equal the offerings from Nikon and Canon. They're going to have to give folks a reason to jump ship and join the Pentax fold, so they'll need a superior product. By superior, I mean a technically superior product. Offering bang for the buck is a lot more attractive to amateurs than professionals because pros can write off their equipment expenses. So I don't really look for Pentax to try and compete feature-for-feature with Nikon and Canon. Instead, I think they'll do what they've always done, which is offer cameras that have the image quality to equal the best from Nikon and Canon, even though they may not have all the same bells and whistles.
01-02-2009, 07:06 AM   #45
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Speculation about higher end new bodies of Pentax have been the favorite subject of this section since I've registered (and I guess were before)

First "pro" bodies start with the Nikon D300, Canon 50D, Olympus E-30 and Sony alpha 700. All of them are competitors of Pentax K20D. Those models belong the category of advanced amateurs / entry level professionnal (beginers) Not everybody have the money to put 10k$ and more in a system including the necessary glass.

Full Frame has not always been the marketing tag for "professional", the first very expensive and very high end models of Canon were APS-H. It is likely that pro-models SLRs will have in the future biggers sensors than FF to take advantage of the lens image circle (using cropping a necessary state when post-processing)

Now about the professionals, we need to know of which pros we are speaking about :
- Journalists, web designers, graphics who need a camera for their work, but who don't use camera as their primary tool
* High end APSC cameras are their weapon of choice as most don't have too much money to spend on it.
- Photo-reporters ?
* They don't need too much pixels (small prints) but definitively need high iso and fast and accurate AF, to avoid missing a shoot.
- Sport reporters ?
* High iso performance (for indoor shooting and need to "freeze" movement) and high frame rate
- studio shooting (fashion) and landscape
* Very high definition, color accuraty
- wedding photography
* low light performance (iso, af), Flash system

I'm not a professional myself, but I've been roaming around the web and read on numerous time professional discribing what they are looking for. There a catergory that is missing, it is Art photographers, because those people have very personal needs and I've seen superb artistic stuff made with a Lomo.

My opinion with Pentax at the moment is that they shall keep up with the very good Samsung sensor (maybe an improved version) and concentrate on the processor and the AF sensors for their high end models.

One thing that I remarked when I read some reviews of Nikon's D700 and Sony's Alpha 900 is that the 100% viewfinder of the Sony was highly praised while the 95% (or so) of the Nikon got some reviewers angry. Would a 100% viewfinder for the K30D a big selling point for pros ? I think so, and even making a viewfinder of more than 100% would be very much apreciated (like using a full frame 100% pentaprism system) The idea behind is that by making so we allow the photographer to control what is coming in the image. This one of the points that made the preference of some pros on rangefinder (Leica) over the SLRs during the film era.
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