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01-07-2009, 02:41 AM   #121
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For me in PMA the big announcement was the release of 645D! And Pentax will bring MF at a good price tag. And finality becomes first in something against Canon & Nikon... because there are rumour of Nikon MX sensor (MF) and canon too... (canon not so real for now)...

And one thing is totally true... why FF if you can buy MF fot the same or little different price?! (speculation on Pentax price MF)... For my kind of photo MF will be perfect (fashion/artistic)... For sports and more usually users the APC-C or APS-H will be perfect with just a tweaks in AF speed and accuracy, better metering and stuff... I think that Pentax will shine this year.

I'm so damn tempted to buy the Nikon D700... but i will just wait a little more time to know about news from Pentax =) In that time is perfect to upgrade my k10D...

JDS

01-07-2009, 07:01 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I think the Hoya announcement was totally clear. Pentax have a certain kind of user in mind, and its not the general user thats impressed with big shiney stuff, bells and whistles or spec sheet measurebating.

Pentax are after the amateur market, and whereas there are a few hardy souls who ALWAYS have the best gear (but no wife, no kids and live with mum) there are hundreds of times more who dont have the disposable income BUT are passionate about photography and want a camera that gives pro cameras features (ruggedness) and IQ but at 20% of the price even if they dont get all the bells and whistles. These were the customers Pentax captured with the old K1000 - a camera that cost little but which would survive deserts and mountains and come back for more.

The niche is knowledgable adventurous photographers who want to take high IQ pictures when they are out jogging, walking, climbing, trakking, rafting, gliding, travelling, caving, biking..... They dont have money to burn on a 1DS but also dont want some peice of chest wig jewelry that will fail under a mild summer shower.

First they have to build them then they have to market them. The money they save by staying out of the FF race will enable them to develop the existing technology to the point where APSC is close enough.

Signs are good. After all the 5D2 has lower noise than the 5D and the A900 has the same DR in RAW as the D700 (and more than the S5).
Does the A900 have more DR than the Fuji S5 ? (I saw from the Mike J. evaluation that the A900 did handle highlights very well. The D700 was good here too though).

Thanks for your run-through.

Last edited by Jonson PL; 01-07-2009 at 07:16 PM.
01-11-2009, 12:47 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Well Pentax may not hang with Samsung for ever... At least, what I heard was heavily pointing to a change of strategy as far as Pentax-Samsung current deal.

We'll see.
I tend to agree with you. Hoya might be tempted to go it completely on there own if the Samsung directives do not cohabit well with their business plans.

Ben
01-11-2009, 01:49 PM   #124
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On top of that, the deal as it is now doesn't include sensors only.
Pentax may want to fab their sensor by Samsung (or any other) but drop the other side of the deal (sharing technos with Samsung).

01-11-2009, 02:16 PM   #125
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Ben obviously has some knowledge of what is coming. I just wish pentax would give us a glimpse at least or just a spec sheet something to hang on to. Apple love all the hype that comes with their rumors but I guess pentax have been saying they'll release that DA* 60-250 for about 2 years now!...
01-15-2009, 03:45 PM   #126
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Or perhaps he doesn't who knows...
01-15-2009, 06:56 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Thanks for your thoughts on EVF, Live-View, and analog view finder. It is exactly in those rough / borderline conditions that I would like to know how my gear performs.

I hope it is ok that I ask; what are your thoughts on the value between D3 and D700 ? are there some areas where you prefer your D3 to just a D700 ?
(As I understand it, there is a bit smaller VF coverage on D700, slower burst rate, smaller battery, and shorter shutter lifetime).

thanks
Sorry about the late response Sune, I have been off grid for two weeks.

Well I will try to give you my thoughts and remember, these are rooted in my usage and needs, so they may be completely different for you.
The 100% viewfinder is something I would have a hard time giving up, after having used it a while and actually has become something I really like, the "what you see is what you get" thing. would a little cropping after or slight rotation matter? probably not, but now I can do without it.
The slightly snappier AF, the large battery capacity, the integrated grip and what appears to be an almost bullet proof build all counts when working in difficult conditions, in a little less than a month, I will spend 2 days in below -20C hanging from, running next to Greenlandic Dogsleds on anything from Sea ice to steep mountain sides, working my butt off to get the shots my customer wants, I will need gears as tough and responsive as it gets for that, besides a large body makes working with gloves on a lot easier.

I largely see the difference between the two as a matter of whether you need those on paper small, but once out there depending on your gear not insignificant extra features.
So the reason for me to favour the D3 and call it worth its money is quite simply that I need the features it offers or that they make getting the job done easier.
From an IQ point of view they are the same.

QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
well they have night vision googles for a reason... may be it is not in G1, but certainly electronics can see where you will not be able even w/ f0.0 if you will make a IR filter that can be moved in/out of the way or may be you can control IR sensivity of the cells on matrix somehow
Sure there is technology that can do stuff our Eyes cannot, but they are far from camera ready nor critical focus ready yet I think.
01-15-2009, 08:20 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
15 Mp at APS-C is the end of MP race. It's real to make more, but it cause much worse colors and early diffraction of lenses. It can't make the end picture better.
???

Higher pixel density does not cause "early diffraction". It increases resolution and therefore allows to see diffraction limitations of lenses. But diffraction depends on the aperture so for the best of the best lenses even 50MP on APS-C would probably make sense. Just check at which aperture your best lens has no more aberrations, i.e., becomes diffraction limited, and look up the required MP here (Table 3).

I see no reason why colours should get worse with higher pixel density either.

The MP race is one of mastering the good/bad ratio in production. The more MP, the harder it is to keep the ratio reasonable.

01-15-2009, 10:28 PM   #129
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I think it is quite possible

With Hoya injecting capital, very possible even at PMA.

Pro= such an almost subjective tag for a camera design. Yet, here are my thoughts.

Using the D700/A900/5D MKII as "pro" models I'd say Pentax could have something to compete with it, although they aren't really "pro" models by price/total features and standards... yet a lot of pros are gobbling them up.

Here is how I see a lineup:

How about the K-1D for a semi-pro/pro model (22mp or higher full frame)

K-30D semi/pro replacement for K20D (same size 14.6 sensor more features)

K-300D enthusiast replacement for K-200D (even more entry level) (12mp APS)

KM entry level (10mp APS)

A 4 tier body system looks good, and will attract the more serious photographers into Pentax. Sony has done the same thing, saved a lot of money on R/D for a 5K and over camera that wouldn't sell all that well even if they had much more marketshare (big price cameras typically don't anyways).

And I think taking it one step at a time is the right idea. When talking with one of the engineers liaison's at Sony, I told them that it would be best not to do a top tier camera now but 2010/2011 would probably be a good time to intro a top pro model (he agreed with me with a big smile).

I think if Pentax steps it up a notch it will be a camera that will compete with the A900, D700, 5D MKII. Pros will welcome it, and semi's will upgrade.

If I were Pentax, that is the body layout I would provide at this stage.

Carl
01-15-2009, 10:37 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Will Pentax go Pro? When I say Pro, I mean a camera that many of the Canon and Nikon journalists as well as commercial photographers require. I am a pro and have no problem with the K20D, but there are those out there that demand faster AF, synch speed and FPS. Pentax is still fringe in the pro market and I would love to see a Flagship Model.

Will a pro Pentax increase the stature of their brand?

Ben

Oh and Happy New Year to all.
Happy New Year to you.

There is no way in hell I am reading all of the posts in this thread. As far as the question, I think Pentax already is "Pro".

Look here and say it aint so. PENTAXIAN.com | The Community for PENTAX Users
01-16-2009, 02:41 AM   #131
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To answer the question posted in the thread title:

"I hope so, but I think not"
01-16-2009, 10:58 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by magnum1 Quote
Happy New Year to you.

There is no way in hell I am reading all of the posts in this thread. As far as the question, I think Pentax already is "Pro".

Look here and say it aint so. PENTAXIAN.com | The Community for PENTAX Users
Pentaxian is a good site, and we all make of our gear what we will, but we do top out early in the upgrade path next to the big three.

One (this one for sure) hopes that the K-m was the financially logical first step to a deeper line of bodies designed to address a wider range of needs - this year.

K.
01-16-2009, 03:48 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpopham Quote
To answer the question posted in the thread title:

"I hope so, but I think not"
If this was a normal year, I think Pentax would be headed in that direction. But this is NOT a normal year, and I expect to see a lot of hunkering down from companies trying to survive, Pentax included. Now some would say that Pentax needs to offer pro gear to survive, and I'm not going to debate that point, but the bean counters will prevail there for now. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope that 'going pro' means launching the 645D with some nice glass, and a sensor with so much resolution and dynamic range that it makes the FF competition look like a bunch of point-and-shoots.
01-18-2009, 09:03 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
I've been asking myself the same question and have come up with one niche that might be worth 400,000 units a year at a profitable selling price. A very high resolution smaller body than the K20D that is highly sealed. Ideally a sensor based on the present K20D one but slightly larger. Added outdoor special features like GPS. A high res LCD able to give critical focus while on a tripod. The AF would have to be upgraded but not by very much. It would be marketed as a compact unit that rivals FF in average light for resolution, 16-18MP. It would sell for more than the D90 types but less than a low end FF.

A down scale body much like the Panny G1. Get rid of the AA batteries on the K-M because of weight, Go to EV, weather seal it and reduce size. Limit the line to just the two units. The slogan is "Compact, rugged, and high res"

The question is has Hoya cut enough fat so Pentax can be profitable at this small a market share.
I'm in line for this (and have been since my *ist Ds). I believe that many Pros used the MZ-S for it's durability (bring back a metal body) and compactness.Add 21st century sensor (CMOS - decent APS with good High Iso performance, whizzybits (including decently tunable tone curves in camera) and (most importantly) weather sealing to the body and (compact prime) lenses and I think you have a winner.

While we are on the subject, for goodness sake can we have something approaching the dimensions of the film era - Wasn't the MZ-S with a metal body in the vicinity of 550g?

I agree with whoever questioned the sensor MP too - how big do most people print?

One more thing - *Please quieten down the shutter - the 40D is much quieter (when not in machine gun mode) on single shot and much less intrusive).
01-18-2009, 10:05 AM   #135
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No Company is going to put all there apples in one basket or they won't have any apples to sell next week.
My point is that pentax isn't going to fix everything in one new camera because the next model won't sell at all. The will take small steps like the did with the new sensor and a few new lenses just to keep us interested.
Next I hope they address the Focus Speed.
Maybe they will work there way up to a pro or FF camera but it dosen't make business sence just to come out with one and stall there sales on there CMOS line-ups.
I agree with the others that stated that companys are hanging on by there short curleys with the economy the way it is.
All we can hope for at the moment is some new glass that knocks our socks off for now.
Just my half a cent.
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