Originally posted by *isteve Believe me FF cameras are not selling at much of a profit right now, nor are they vastly cheaper IMO. The 5D2 intro price is the same as the 5D's intro price, and the D3x is the same as the 1Ds mk1. Most of these top end cams are bought by news agencies anyway, only a proportion are bought by individuals and in many cases they are practically given away for promotional purposes. The competition for hearts and pockets in the pro arena is fierce and not a good place to be third (sorry Sony).
I think the Hoya announcement was totally clear. Pentax have a certain kind of user in mind, and its not the general user thats impressed with big shiney stuff, bells and whistles or spec sheet measurebating.
Pentax are after the amateur market, and whereas there are a few hardy souls who ALWAYS have the best gear (but no wife, no kids and live with mum) there are hundreds of times more who dont have the disposable income BUT are passionate about photography and want a camera that gives pro cameras features (ruggedness) and IQ but at 20% of the price even if they dont get all the bells and whistles. These were the customers Pentax captured with the old K1000 - a camera that cost little but which would survive deserts and mountains and come back for more.
The niche is knowledgable adventurous photographers who want to take high IQ pictures when they are out jogging, walking, climbing, trakking, rafting, gliding, travelling, caving, biking..... They dont have money to burn on a 1DS but also dont want some peice of chest wig jewelry that will fail under a mild summer shower.
First they have to build them then they have to market them. The money they save by staying out of the FF race will enable them to develop the existing technology to the point where APSC is close enough.
Signs are good. After all the 5D2 has lower noise than the 5D and the A900 has the same DR in RAW as the D700 (and more than the S5). So small pixels are not an issue if you get the A/D stage and image processing parts right too. Translate that into an advanced APSC design and all you get from FF for your extra $2000 is 1 extra print size or 1 stop of noise above ISO1600....but not both.
But equally critical are QC and competitive AF. The rest is far less important IMO for this type of camera.
We're certainly not talking about Pentax releasing a 1Ds/D3x type camera (these are not only a FF sensor but are evidently priced outrageously anyway), but a 5D/5DII equivalent would be an option IMO and not that much more expensive than a D300 equivalent in APS-C.
First a small fact check, 5D was introduced at 3699€, the 5DII at 2500€: hardly the same price. The K30D will face sub-2000$ FF DSLRs (D700/5DMkII, not even counting the residual 5Ds that will sell under 1500$) in 2009 when it will come out.
Are you willing to bet that the price difference between the K30 (if there is such a camera) and the D700/5DMkII will be the mythical 2000$? Are they going to sell it for less than 100$ (best price for D700 now is 2100$)?
Then I won't be arguing about the profitability of the 1D/D3-like cameras, once again, these are not the cameras we are talking about as a possible upgrade for Pentax.
I don't know where you get your sources but all I can say is that Canon and Nikon are not charitable enterprise giving away cameras at no profit just for the good publicity.
I am not saying that you are wrong about the way Pentax sees it and I sure hope they manage to give FF IQ in an APS-C package but as you said it, it's just not very likely: FF will always keep an advantage, either in resolution, or in noise (but maybe in both as it is now the case), and that's precisely why I am advocating it for Pentax: IQ has always been their primary goal, we certainly agree on that.
Pentax is no longer Pentax, they are now Hoya and teamed up with Samsung, a much much bigger company than Nikon or Canon who could certainly produce a FF sensor at a reasonable cost.
Look at what they've done with the K20 sensor for their first APS-C sensor: not bad for a start!
I guess we'll see soon enough which way they're heading but in the meantime, I'll still get my fingers crossed for a nice FF with the Pentax touch!