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01-12-2009, 10:24 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Comparing prices to Sigma is completely flawed IMO.
Ask thousands and thousands of people who bought Sigma if it`s flawed or not........
It`s not just Sigma, what about Tamron 17-50 and 28-75, brilliant $300 lenses........

Or you wanna compare DA 60-250 to Canon 70-200 .........

01-12-2009, 10:32 AM   #197
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The problem in a high technology business like digital camera manufacturing is that the little fishes are simply squeezed out by the R&D costs. With the exception of the sensor, I suspect that other camera components are fairly cheap to buy or make, and most of the production costs come from R&D (including development of specialized manufacturing processes, e.g. for weathersealed cameras and lenses). Giants like Nikon and Canon can recover those costs diluted over 10 times more cameras sold than Pentax, which means that they can price them lower than Pentax. Apart of course from cutting production costs (dangerous if it affects quality) and increasing market share (rather long-term), the only other thing Pentax can do to compete in the present is to significantly overprice their new cameras, so that early adopters (Pentax enthusiasts with already a significant involvment in the brand) pay a disproportionate share of those initial costs. After a sufficient number of these early units are sold, Pentax can match the competition price, or try to beat it to gain new customers.

So go take one for the team, guys, and grab a couple 30D's as soon as they're out!
01-12-2009, 10:39 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by slomojoe Quote
......... and most of the production costs come from R&D (including development of specialized manufacturing processes, e.g. for weathersealed cameras and lenses).
Weathersealed ? Special technology???? Hmmm........cutting a thread on a barrel for a piece of rubber doesn`t sound like rocket science to me.
Probably the most overrated feature which should cost no more than $30 per lens........
01-12-2009, 10:40 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by klika Quote
Or you wanna compare DA 60-250 to Canon 70-200 .........
I guess YOU want to compare a yet to be released lens to whatever you may want. Most of US don't want to make this comparation as it is indeed flawed (to be polite).

Radu

01-12-2009, 10:45 AM   #200
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Close but no cigar.

I doubt the sigma is a pentax clone or visa versa. I provided two links for 17-70 at B&H. In the meantime...

....You wanna see a Pentax clone lens ? Check out Tamron 18-250mm. Tamron came out months ahead of Pentax and won awards with their design. I compared both side by side maybe 18 months ago. They really are idenitcal and since Tamron came out first and was recognized for their innovative design and pentax was not awarded a thing, I can only assume Tamron makes it with a Pentax logo for Pentax to sell. Plus they are both "Made it Japan" and not "Vietnam"

In a way kinda like the Tokina 10-17 versus Pentax 10-17. Tokina came to market first but you cannot buy a Pentax mount tokina 10-17 like you can buy a Tamon 18-250 pentax mount version.

Anyways check out the two specs links and see the difference between 17-70 and 17-70:



Pentax | SMCP-DA 17-70mm f/4 AL (IF) SDM Autofocus Lens | 21740

This is what $490 gets you:

Filter Size 67mm f/Stop Range 4-22 Minimum Focus Distance 0.9' (0.28 m) Magnification 1:3.2 Angle of View 79-23 (digital format) Groups/Elements 12/17 Length 3.7" (94mm) Maximum Diameter 3" (75mm) Weight 1.1 lb (485g)



Sigma | 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro Lens for Pentax | 669109

This is what $332 gets you:

Filter Size 72mm f/Stop Range 2.8-22 Minimum Focus Distance 7.9" (20 cm) Magnification 1:2.3 Angle of View 72.4 - 20.2 Groups/Elements 12/15 Length 3.2" (82.5mm) Maximum Diameter 3.1" (79mm) Weight 1 lb (455 g)





QuoteOriginally posted by klika Quote
Well, how do you expect Pentax to turn some profit, for example, with DA17-70, remember the lens was initially $600 , compared to Sigma 17-70, double the price. They can turn profit for sure in case they sell it in large quantities....... but the question is, who is gonna buy it for that price?
Also, DA 60-250 is supposed to be $1400!!! Who is gonna buy it? Not me for sure........
01-12-2009, 10:47 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by klika Quote
Ask thousands and thousands of people who bought Sigma if it`s flawed or not........
It`s not just Sigma, what about Tamron 17-50 and 28-75, brilliant $300 lenses........

Or you wanna compare DA 60-250 to Canon 70-200 .........
I don't care about lenses comparison, ther are indeed a couple nice 3rd party lenses. But comparing 3rd party (specially might Sigma which reverse engineer instead of paying patents) to OEM, being Pentax or Canikon, is completely flawed.

It's like comparing price of a Creative Sound card and a no-name sound card and complaining because the Creative one is more expensive. Huh, unbeleivable isn't it? LOL
01-12-2009, 10:48 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by klika Quote
Weathersealed ? Special technology???? Hmmm........cutting a thread on a barrel for a piece of rubber doesn`t sound like rocket science to me.
Probably the most overrated feature which should cost no more than $30 per lens........
You speak with a confidence that only ignorance can bring. You came with this $30 number by consulting your crystal globe? Let me tap into your vaste knowledge and ask you if do you think that one can weather seal ANY lens for this amount? Smaller one like DA*55? Extending zooms like DA*16-50 or DA*60-250? Internal focusing/zooming lenses like DA* 50-135? Big primes such as DA* 200 and 300?

Teach us, Master!

,
Radu
01-12-2009, 11:07 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
You speak with a confidence that only ignorance can bring. You came with this $30 number by consulting your crystal globe?
My dear friend, there`s no any crystal globe, just common sense.........do not try to invent hot water, it`s pointless..........

01-12-2009, 11:08 AM   #204
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Price wise it does compare

Right now you can buy a Canon 70-200mm 2.8L IS from B&H for $1,488.

Pentax 60-250mm f4 SDM will launch at $1499.99, so $11 more, but alas its 2 plus years late to market, so still not available ;^(

Both are weathersealed. One is lightning fast and accurate autofocus:

The Canon.

I know first hand as it was one of very first two eos lenses I bought last year instead of buying a K20D at $1,300 and 16-50 2.8 at $800, a lens which is well known for its many quality control complaints.

When I said 60-250 hunted last month when I tried it on K20D I meant it. In that I own a prosumer 5D canon and the 70-200mm 2.8 IS is WHAT I COMPARED 60-250 f4 SDM TO.

If you never try the 70-200mm 2.8L IS canon then maybe you'd be quite happy with 60-250 SDM ? However seeing the difference inhand was/is profound.

Still I like my K20D alot. Its the best camera I know of to drive my old SMC-A, FA, Tamron Adaptall PK-A lenses with. Inbody shake reduction is well worth the $689.95 I paid for K20D. Now will K30D start at $1500 in next few weeks? If so then No Thank You. I'll consider last years nikon D700 and one nikon lens instead.

You see once I realized Pentax equiptment and My Eos stuff gets along just fine in my lowepro bag I figure nikon gear will play nice too ;^)


QuoteOriginally posted by klika Quote
Ask thousands and thousands of people who bought Sigma if it`s flawed or not........
It`s not just Sigma, what about Tamron 17-50 and 28-75, brilliant $300 lenses........

Or you wanna compare DA 60-250 to Canon 70-200 .........

Last edited by Samsungian; 01-12-2009 at 01:49 PM. Reason: "is" added & prosumersumer to "prosumer"
01-12-2009, 11:11 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Right now you can buy a Canon 70-200mm 2.8L IS from B&H for $1,488.
Apples and oranges my friend....... f/2.8 vs f/4 , FYI 70-200 f/4.0 IS is around $1000, non IS is $600......... go figure..........
01-12-2009, 11:27 AM   #206
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Lets Dig Deeper if you like...

70-200mm 2.8L IS is made for full frame. It can be fully used on any canon dslr ever made and provides image stabilization on any eos film body ever made too.

Compared to Pentax which you're right is slower aperture for more money:

Good Point.

Is 60-250mm SDM made for full frame?

Wiill it autofocus on a non SDM dslr body?

Will it autofocus on any pentax film body?

I ask and you may know that the newer pentax lenses like 17-70 and 55 1.4 SDM are issuing without screw drive for autofocus function. Likey another cost saving move? Kinda like when pentax dropped aperture selector rings at lensmounts and added plastic mount lenses, their "L" series.




QuoteOriginally posted by klika Quote
Apples and oranges my friend....... f/2.8 vs f/4 , FYI 70-200 f/4.0 IS is around $1000, non IS is $600......... go figure..........
01-12-2009, 11:32 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
70-200mm 2.8L IS is made for full frame. It can be fully used on any canon dslr ever made and provides image stabilization on any eos film body ever made too.

Compared to Pentax which you're right is slower aperture for more money:

Good Point.

Is 60-250mm SDM made for full frame?

Wiill it autofocus on a non SDM dslr body?

Will it autofocus on any pentax film body?

I ask and you may know that the newer pentax lenses like 17-70 and 55 1.4 SDM are issuing without screw drive for autofocus function. Likey another cost saving move? Kinda like when pentax dropped aperture selector rings at lensmounts and added plastic mount lenses, their "L" series.
Blabla and the 60-250 is a 4.2X zoom while 70-200 is 2.9X.
You still think your comparison is valid?
01-12-2009, 01:32 PM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Blabla and the 60-250 is a 4.2X zoom while 70-200 is 2.9X.
You still think your comparison is valid?
I believe it still is. The 70-200 is a constant f/2.8 aperture lens, whereas the 60-250 is f/4. That one stop difference really adds to the price.
01-12-2009, 03:31 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I guess there is a difference between "a full frame camera, that would be nice, right?" and "Pentax can launch a FF camera for 2500-3000$. Would you buy it?"
And I have my doubts that 53% from us would really buy a FF camera.
I think the point is that if Pentax has no plan to release a FF in 2009, there will be some existing Pentax users moving to FF, also there will be less users from other systems to consider to switch to Pentax. However, I don't think we will see a FF Pentax in 2009. There is just too much risk in FF investment, also consider the FF lens lineup. There will be a huge investment to build up the FF lens lineup in such short time like Sony. With a bad year in 2008 in Pentax (fell behind Olympus to #5 DSLR market share in Japan), and a potentially tougher year in 2009 due to the bad economy, Hoya will be more conservative in their budget. Also consider the current $23xx for D700, $2700 for 5D MKII, and even the $15xx 5D, it is really tough for Pentax to gain something in this market. Although I will consider buying one just for restoring the glory of the FA Limiteds...

Pentax should continuing in providing something unique to their system. What brought to the success of K10D was the pro-features, SR, in a low cost weatherproof body. Now they should strengthen the SR to 4 stop or above. Focus system need to be improved. It is very critique, just look at D300, it is the AF system made many C users switched to N. K30D basically needs to have some advantages over D300 (1 year old now selling at $14xx) in order to sell well, particular if it is going to be launch at around $1400.
01-12-2009, 03:40 PM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
I believe it still is. The 70-200 is a constant f/2.8 aperture lens, whereas the 60-250 is f/4. That one stop difference really adds to the price.
but not the zoom range... flawed.
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