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01-03-2009, 09:18 PM   #16
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Pretty stupid, I think, to count 'bigger' as a virtue in an economy where behemoths who make inefficient things people can't afford are closing plants and grabbing handouts from outgoing corporate-friendly administrations.


Seriously.


I don't know who it is or why they keep coming to Pentax forums trying to scare people away from... what, having Pentaxes?

But it's a dumb place to come trying to suggest people divest of stock.

We're photographers, not stockbrokers.

If we were making money on Pentax stock we'd be talking about Hassies and Leicas or whatever rich people talk about.

01-03-2009, 09:31 PM   #17
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To go with the cars as an example, marketshare is a *stupid* thing to be worried about right now. The biggest automakers in the world: GM, Ford, even *Toyota* are hemhorraging money and closing plants and dealerships, why? Cause they got too invested in making big vehicles people can't afford or fuel and trying to rely on advertisng to convince people to spend money they don't have. Even though *everyone* has known this couldn't last, ...and they plead helplessness while trying to dodge regulations that could have kept them afloat. Instead they were afraid to be the first ones to step away from the unsustainable bloat.

Why?

'Marketshare.'

'What the customers want.'

Hardly matters, to me or a company, what I want, if I just plain can't have it.

Does it?
01-03-2009, 09:50 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
We're photographers, not stockbrokers.
Nevertheless, look at page 14 of
http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_Quarterly.pdf

It's either the tanking economy--DSLRs are a highly discretionary product--or HOYA is doing something wrong with PENTAX, or both.

EDIT: By "page 14," I meant page 14 of the pdf file. The "something" in the "something wrong" is possibly marketing: K200D+PENTAX-M 50 F1.7 is mega-fun and I'm thinking of getting the new PENTAX 17-70 SDM lens.

Last edited by asdf; 01-04-2009 at 12:27 AM.
01-03-2009, 10:00 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Porsche has even less of the US market
At this moment Porsche owns ~50% of VW... may be already more than 50%

01-03-2009, 10:44 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
Nevertheless, look at page 14 of
http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_Quarterly.pdf

It's either the tanking economy--DSLRs are a highly discretionary product--or HOYA is doing something wrong with PENTAX, or both.
page 3: "Under these circumstances [they refer to the bad economical times], sales of the HOYA group in the quarter under review increased mainly reflecting the additional results of PENTAX..."

page 4: "As for digital cameras, sales have decreased due to declined sales
volume of compact cameras, and revenue from single lens reflex cameras has also decreased as our new products faced severe price competitions with competitors."

I'm not an economist and will not pretend to understand all of such a document, where the numbers have many more digits than my own research budgets at the University. But I don't like it when people (some alarmists) are basically running in circles screaming "the sky is falling down"! Have we not already had this thread on the same document?

So Hoya makes profit from Pentax (their increased sales is mainly from Pentax), but this is the endoscope part because the cameras decrease in sale due to "price competition". Now, this is a decrease since last 6 month period. Not hugh. If you look in the statistics for the whole year they are not worth much for Pentax because the last year corresponding 6 month period is just left blank for Pentax since they just about baught Pentax at that time. I would say jumping to any conclusions about Pentax or Hoyas future based on this is just an activity for very nervous people. Sit down in the boat and wait for real proper statistics, and still don't wait for wonders. A consolidation of Pentax into Hoya will first cost and the world economy is spinning down.

But two things strikes me as interresting:

!) Pentax is presented in the statistics including the endoscope production, so they have not yet cut that out of Pentax, even though this is supposed to have been why Hoya baught Pentax. What does that mean? I thought they would have moved that part of old Pentax into their own medical optics by now leaving the cameras with Pentax.

2) Pentax assets are almost as big as those of the Hoya optical section and rougly 1/3 of the total Hoya assets! Wow! And those are probably the lest uncertain numbers here. How come? I had got the impression that Hoya was the hugh company buying the small company Pentax. OK, Hoya has much more employees, but in assets the difference is not so large.
01-03-2009, 11:22 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
Nevertheless, look at page 14 of
http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_2Q_Quarterly.pdf

It's either the tanking economy--DSLRs are a highly discretionary product--or HOYA is doing something wrong with PENTAX, or both.
If you are referring to Section 5/page 13, that's revenue growth. Sales levels are dropping for 3 of 4 of Hoya's non-Pentax segments. Just like sales are dropping for everyone else.

If you look at the segmented results on page 8 of the pdf it looks to me like Pentax was free cashflow positive for the 3 months ending Sept. 30, 2008. That's not an easy feat for business with as much exposure to the consumer as Pentax.

But what is intriguing is that it looks like the Pentax unit spent a considerable, almost disproportionate, amount on R&D. Interesting.
01-03-2009, 11:32 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I don't know who it is or why they keep coming to Pentax forums trying to scare people away from... what, having Pentaxes?
Oh you haven't seen the angst that can inflame Pentax boards. Like vertical pattern noise, 3 fps, autofocus speeds, aperture simulator thingies, missing martini dispensers on the K20 body, and everything else in between.

This site is pretty civil and polite compared to some others, which is why I spend most of my time here.

Last edited by tranq78; 01-03-2009 at 11:36 PM. Reason: spelling
01-04-2009, 01:15 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
missing martini dispensers on the K20 body.
Damn Hoya! Damn Pentax! Where are my MARTINI DISPENSERS?!?!?

I didn't even realize I was supposed to get one. Did I miss the memo? Why didn't they personally call me? Do they expect me to read the manual or something?!? Insanity!!!

01-04-2009, 01:20 AM   #24
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I've read this news in Russian. 1.6% is the share of Pentax K200D on Japan market. To say honest it's not bad.
It's only TOP 20 DSLR.
01-04-2009, 01:36 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Very little of pentax logo'd items are made in Japan thesedays. Usually you have to look at rear element of lenses to find the somewhat hidden "VietNam" origin. My Samsung dslrs and K20D are all "Made in Philippines" Is it possible the outsourcing of "Pentax" production has lead to its sales decline in Japan in 2008?
Explain to me, then, how Nikon is still in the top 2 even when their volume-selling, lower-end cameras are made in Thailand. I didn't know that many people looked at those stickers at the bottom of DSLRs and made a buying decision based on those. The stickers/papers that's more important to me is the price tag and feature specs.

*shrug*

I really hope this piece of news would get fence-sitters to sell all their Pentax gear so the rest of us will have more used stock to buy at good prices. I never experienced the golden age of buying used Pentax stuff pre-K10D.
01-04-2009, 04:00 AM   #26
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Samsungian, what "very credible rumour"? The Pentax and Samsung DSLRs are made in the Pentax factory, in Philippines. The lenses are made in the Pentax factory, in Vietnam. Those are facts, not rumors.
01-04-2009, 04:42 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
My Canon 5D dslrs are "Made in Japan". Nikon D700 is still "Made in Japan" everyone one of my canon lenses bought in 2008 all: "Made In Japan" The Canon 5D mark II I handled locally a few days ago is also: Made In Japan.
I really, really think that only the last stages of production (maybe packaging only) are made in Japan. It's like those precious wines...they are *bottled* in a place, and God knows where are really produced.
01-04-2009, 04:53 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Just curious as to your reasoning. Do you think that Canon/Nikon are just worse, or do you prefer to root for the "underdog"?

Of the two, I'd probably spring for Olympus... though I have to admit Sony seems to really be working on creating a great DSLR system. The A900 is so unorthodox that you have to wonder how much of a say the marketing department had in it.
Hum, well, I think I'm allways going against the flow.
Besides that, I like to have in camera shake reduction. I do have some older and newer Minolta lenses, which speaks for Sony.
However, it feels like sponsoring a next C**** or N****.
If the dynamic range of the Panasonic sensors used by Olympus was any better, it was an easy choice.
Otherwise I might as well go for one of the very, very cheap D90 / D300 offers you see here in the newspaper ads and enjoy the fast availability of lenses, flashes etc.

- Bert
01-04-2009, 05:13 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Samsungian, what "very credible rumour"? The Pentax and Samsung DSLRs are made in the Pentax factory, in Philippines. The lenses are made in the Pentax factory, in Vietnam. Those are facts, not rumors.
I concur.

My 2003 Optio S was made in the Philippines.
My 2000 ZX-30 was made in the Philippines, and my 2000 FA J 28-80 was made in Vietnam.

Nothing new under the sun for me.
01-04-2009, 05:17 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Damn Hoya! Damn Pentax! Where are my MARTINI DISPENSERS?!?!?

I didn't even realize I was supposed to get one. Did I miss the memo? Why didn't they personally call me? Do they expect me to read the manual or something?!? Insanity!!!
The California legislature banned them in California. You were supposed to get a hotshoe-mounted cup holder instead.
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