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01-04-2009, 05:57 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote

*snip*

missing martini dispensers on the K20 body, and everything else in between.
But I don't want the martini dispenser, I have problems enough focusing as it is! Can I have a bon bon dispenser instead? And a little needle that comes out of the shutter button and pricks your finger when you blow a shot.

NaCl(that way you could tell the newbie photogs by all the bandaids)H2O

01-04-2009, 06:40 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote

BTW, so is Sigma's DSLR Japanese market share approx. 0%?
It wouldn't surprise me.

Here's a link to an interesting (although perhaps meaningless) little chart on kakaku.com, a site which watches the prices of various sorts of items from various online and "click and mortar" stores and collates the data to help people comparison shop (we got a 10 year head start on the recession over here).

The three columns are from left to right: Most Sold, Most Watched, and Customer Satisfaction.

As I write this, Canon has 4 of the 5 top selling models and Nikon has 1. The K20D doesn't show up until #14, and together with the K-m at #17 constitutes Pentax activity in the top 20.

Nikon has 3 of the 5 most watched models, with Canon having the other two. The K20D is at #12 and the K-m is at #20.

Most interestingly, however, neither Canon nor Nikon appear anywhere in the top 5 for customer satisfaction. Pentax has the #1 and #4 slots, with Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony filling out the others. In fact, Pentax has 4 of the top 10, Canon has none, and Nikon's sole appearance is at #10 with the D40.

If you're interested, click the little arrow markers at the bottom of each column to see #11~20 and click the page numbers in the list at the bottom of those pages to see each successive grouping of 20.

Last edited by Mike Cash; 01-04-2009 at 06:58 AM.
01-04-2009, 06:47 AM   #33
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it's the chart for the top 20 selling dslr.
Sigma's dslr may be 2x and so it don't count in the chart (same as K20d, Km)
01-04-2009, 07:00 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by yipchunyu Quote
it's the chart for the top 20 selling dslr.
Sigma's dslr may be 2x and so it don't count in the chart (same as K20d, Km)
It's not 2x.....try "#97"......way down below even discontinued Pentax models such as the *ist DL2 (at #72).

01-04-2009, 11:18 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
The California legislature banned them in California. You were supposed to get a hotshoe-mounted cup holder instead.
First they ban hi-cap magazines, now this. I'm tired of the nanny-state. What next? Are they going to take away my bon-bon dispensing Leica?

Sorry NaCl, if you want the chocolate you have to go Euro...
01-04-2009, 11:58 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
EDIT:

Peter, Hyundai and Kia may be trying to sell cars in Japan, but they're not doing a very good job of it. I'm on the road half the day every day and I think I may have seen one Hyundai. I've seen a couple of defunct dealerships, though. They're having better luck with scooters such as from Kymco. You have to understand that the problems and mutual enmity between the Japanese and the Koreans runs very deep and is only recently beginning to show small signs of thawing. Japan occupied Korea from 1910 to 1945, treated them horribly, and brought great numbers of them to Japan for forced labor during the war. They and their descendants who are still here do not have citizenship, face discrimination, and need special permission to re-enter Japan (which is the only home the second and third generation have ever known) if they go on vacation. They are barred from many public service jobs, can't vote, and are sometimes even barred from tournament play on high school sports teams. The Korean side of the resentment is understandable. The Japanese side comes, I think, from the same way you start to feel toward a guy who loaned you money when you haven't paid him back yet.
thanks for this. most people don't understand why most of the asian population don't particuarly like japan.
01-04-2009, 03:05 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
It wouldn't surprise me.

Here's a link to an interesting (although perhaps meaningless) little chart on kakaku.com, a site which watches the prices of various sorts of items from various online and "click and mortar" stores and collates the data to help people comparison shop (we got a 10 year head start on the recession over here).

The three columns are from left to right: Most Sold, Most Watched, and Customer Satisfaction.

As I write this, Canon has 4 of the 5 top selling models and Nikon has 1. The K20D doesn't show up until #14, and together with the K-m at #17 constitutes Pentax activity in the top 20.

Nikon has 3 of the 5 most watched models, with Canon having the other two. The K20D is at #12 and the K-m is at #20.

Most interestingly, however, neither Canon nor Nikon appear anywhere in the top 5 for customer satisfaction. Pentax has the #1 and #4 slots, with Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony filling out the others. In fact, Pentax has 4 of the top 10, Canon has none, and Nikon's sole appearance is at #10 with the D40.

If you're interested, click the little arrow markers at the bottom of each column to see #11~20 and click the page numbers in the list at the bottom of those pages to see each successive grouping of 20.
Very interesting Mike, thank you. I've never been sticking around much on Canikon forums, except when search for some 3rd party lens link me there. Does this mean that they complain and moan about their cameras even more than Pentax owners does here and elsewhere?
01-04-2009, 05:00 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Very interesting Mike, thank you. I've never been sticking around much on Canikon forums, except when search for some 3rd party lens link me there. Does this mean that they complain and moan about their cameras even more than Pentax owners does here and elsewhere?
Possibly.

Also possible is that the buyers of brands other than Canon/Nikon were for some reason more likely to come back and fill out an online customer satisfaction survey. That's why I said the data in the graph may be completely meaningless. Interesting to look at, but not exactly scientific or reliable.

01-04-2009, 05:06 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
Hum, well, I think I'm allways going against the flow.
Besides that, I like to have in camera shake reduction. I do have some older and newer Minolta lenses, which speaks for Sony.
However, it feels like sponsoring a next C**** or N****.
If the dynamic range of the Panasonic sensors used by Olympus was any better, it was an easy choice.
Otherwise I might as well go for one of the very, very cheap D90 / D300 offers you see here in the newspaper ads and enjoy the fast availability of lenses, flashes etc.

- Bert
It might be nice to go the route most people take, being the safest bet and all, but I really don't appreciate the additional cost to get stabilization with lenses. Outside of the two basic zooms, every other lens with stabilization costs a whole lot more than their non-stabilized counterparts.

Having been spoiled with in-body stabilization, I'd rather go Sony or Olympus if Pentax goes belly-up, with the slight edge going to Olympus because it can accommodate my Pentax lenses via an adapter and because Sony lenses are *expensive*. The A900 looks pretty good, though.
01-04-2009, 06:05 PM   #40
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my 70-200mm 2.8L IS cost less brand new than a 10 year old FA 80-200/2.8

Did you know you actually see the image stabilized in the viewfinder with Canon Image Stabilized lenses?

I spent $1,459 last spring on a brand new eos 70-200mm 2.8L IS which is less coin than a 10 year old FA 80-200mm 2.8 costs used.

I agree K20D with inbody shake reduction is cool but so is in lens IS.

Having two brand systems is eyeopening for me. I look foward to adding nikon this year to my bag to see if their 2008 screw drive af hunts like 2008 Pentax does or is more spot on & lighting fast like Canon's old 2005 technology is.



QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
It might be nice to go the route most people take, being the safest bet and all, but I really don't appreciate the additional cost to get stabilization with lenses. Outside of the two basic zooms, every other lens with stabilization costs a whole lot more than their non-stabilized counterparts.

Having been spoiled with in-body stabilization, I'd rather go Sony or Olympus if Pentax goes belly-up, with the slight edge going to Olympus because it can accommodate my Pentax lenses via an adapter and because Sony lenses are *expensive*. The A900 looks pretty good, though.

Last edited by Samsungian; 01-04-2009 at 06:31 PM.
01-04-2009, 06:23 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
Most interestingly, however, neither Canon nor Nikon appear anywhere in the top 5 for customer satisfaction. Pentax has the #1 and #4 slots, with Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony filling out the others. In fact, Pentax has 4 of the top 10, Canon has none, and Nikon's sole appearance is at #10 with the D40.
Those numbers are unweighted though. One needs to weight the results with the average profile of the buyer and i'd hazard a guess to say the average Pentax buyer is far more informed and does more research than the average entry level consumer that beafs up Canikons numbers.

It's like those JD Power initial quality ratings that almost ALWAYS have Hyundai on top ... most because the buyer expects less than what they'd get in the under performing Porsche.
01-04-2009, 08:35 PM   #42
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AAAUUGGGHH the sky is falling!

Oh I'm still gonna be taking photos with my Pentax gear.
01-04-2009, 09:14 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
AAAUUGGGHH the sky is falling!

Oh I'm still gonna be taking photos with my Pentax gear.
Wait, didn't you know? If their market share drops below 1% your camera will stop working. It is built into the firmware.

And all the Canikon guys will make fun of you. Oh, the humanity!
01-04-2009, 09:47 PM   #44
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Thanks for the info, Mike Cash.

"Kiss," eh? ... that sounds as dumb as "Rebel." I guess I know nothing about marketing.

I noticed that the cameras are listed multiple times--I'm guessing they're listing different lens combos, eh?

QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
It wouldn't surprise me.

Here's a link to an interesting (although perhaps meaningless) little chart on kakaku.com, a site which watches the prices of various sorts of items from various online and "click and mortar" stores and collates the data to help people comparison shop (we got a 10 year head start on the recession over here).

...
01-04-2009, 11:56 PM   #45
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Pentax needs to realize that word of mouth isn't going to sell camera's alone. Subaru, which is another japanese niche producer is very similar to Pentax. Many of their parts are used across the line just like pentax does to save development and costs. Even though word of mouth is very good for subaru, you still need to market your cars. In car world you have the two giants Toyota and Honda and in the camera business you have Canon and Nikon. Subaru has been able to survive because it has brand imagine of a strong reliable AWD car though good marketing. Whether Pentax/Hoya likes it or not, they are just going to have to divert money into a marketing budget of some sort at least if they intend to survive. I think a reasonable goal with a good marketing campaign is 5% japanese marketshare by the end of the decade. Pentax cameras and equipment is good enough that could be done with relative ease. There are TONS of things Pentax could market ... for instance.

Pentax could point out with great success i think that Canon/Nikon sell their "pro" camera's at a loss and pass the expense down to the consumer level equipment with not only higher costs but also equipment that in many cases lacks features found in less expensive but feature packed cameras from Pentax such as weather sealed bodies. Because Pentax focuses on quality but affordable bodies/lenses without making having to cover the cost of pro level level cameras that loose money, not only will you get better imagines with pentax, you will also save money too.

Last edited by Chwisch87; 01-05-2009 at 12:17 AM.
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