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01-05-2009, 03:01 PM   #61
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Ok, the numbers in that chart are screwed up. The addition of the top ten chart poitns out what is wrong.

What they did was take the top 10 selling DSLRs, and declared that the entire DSLR market share. They then turned that into a DSLR makret share by brand bar graph. The numbers are skewed in a way you can't really make sense of. The only thing you can determine is pentax certainly isn't dominating anyone on volume, which hoya's quarterly sales volume percent indicates.

However, they also restructured pentax distribution, advertising, retail placement, etc. For a while there, if you weren't buying form an online venodr who effectively has unlimited shelf space looking for pentax deliberately, you weren't going to find anything.

That situation persisted fro at least one quarter, and is improving.

The bad news is this stuff is VERY discretionary, and niche or not, the market may only support those makers who can wait out the recession with cash reserves.

01-05-2009, 03:07 PM   #62
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I'll have a look at my next oil change

I usually browse the showroom when I get the oil changed. I'm pretty sure everything on the floor says "Indiana" now which kinda bummed me out. I prefer japan built and shipped. But I'll have another look. Heuberger Subaru TV ads say they are #1 dealer in USA, so again I'll ask next time I go for free espressos and free oil.

I agree, great cars in winter. In Spring Summer & Fall way too much fun with our Red Turbo 5speed. Our 2005 Forrester was built in Japan, and again I thought the current Forrester window stickers say "Indiana" now ;^(

I'll look into it as I love their free espresso ;^)

Bummer on World Rally Team. I wasn't aware of that. I got a lot of great photos of Subaru Rally Car Party in June or July 2005 before Pikes Peak Hill Climb held at Heuberger Subaru. All kinds of 14mm f2.8 images on film.

My normal oil change guy told me he and his WRX club buddies drive thru South Park Colorado at 150-160mph. Do you think B*ll Sh*T? I havent gone that fast EVER even though the speedo goes there. So i don't know if these cars really go that fast. I've only gone 109mph in Wyoming on the way to Grand Tetons National Park with alot of pedal left and no courage to go any faster. Every thing seemed fine at that speed except my wife was not pleased. At 100mph shes all good and the car rides so well too.


QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
Sorry but you're wrong on a couple points... the #1 dealership in the USA for the past several years is Van Bortel in Victor NY, outside Rochester. I've bought four new cars from them (including two STIs) and they are truly outstanding. Here in Rochesters, Subarus are everywhere. There are more Hondas and Toyotas but they offer many more models, but you see tons of Subarus. There's just about nothing better in the snow especially when you throw on some Nokian tires.

Also, you're wrong about where they're built. Legacys and Outbacks are built in the US, Imprezas and Outback Sports are built in Gunma, Japan. (Including my '08 STI.) Off the top of my head, I'm not sure about Foresters (we had one but I don't remember where it was built, I think it was Japan) and I'm not sure about the Tribeca. I don't believe any of that has changed for many years.

As for body styles... well, the Impreza was all new for '02, got a refresh in '04, another refresh in '06, and all new for '08. If anything, that's more changes than most of the other companies.

I do think of Subaru and Pentax similarly, though. Subaru is certainly less likely to go away than the massively-larger General Motors and I'm not too concerned about Pentax disappearing. (I am heartbroken that Subaru killed their World Rally team for 2009... )

Last edited by Samsungian; 01-05-2009 at 03:13 PM.
01-05-2009, 03:09 PM   #63
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maine is hotbed for Suberu

QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I bought my Subaru from USA #1 dealer here in Colorado in 2005.

Sweet cars & I always plan to own one since I'll never move from Colorado. BUT they are no longer built in Japan for USA market. Mine is all Japan made from 2005 but now they are constructed in Indiana.

Subaru is sold in select States. Not every State has a Subaru dealership or dealer repairs. I think their use of same body style for 3-4 years gives them an advantage. And with Turbo 5 or 6 speed fun fun fun to drive in & outside of winter.
I swear there are more Suberus in Maine than Fords. It is considered a premium car up here and the resale value is through the roof.
01-05-2009, 03:12 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Tough, weatherproof, good outdoors, compact, loyal following amongst no-nonsense, practical types.

Pentax should focus their marketing in the northern US Rain proofing would come in handy in the Pacific NW!
And lesbians. Don't forget the lesbians...

01-05-2009, 03:18 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote

My normal oil change guy told me he and his WRX club buddies drive thru South Park Colorado at 150-160mph. Do you think B*ll Sh*T? I havent gone that fast EVER even though the speedo goes there. So i don't know if these cars really go that fast. I've only gone 109mph in Wyoming on the way to Grand Tetons Nation Park with alot of pedal left and no courage to go any faster. Every thing seemed fine at that speed except my wife was not pleased. At 100mph shes all good and the car rides so well too.
If you want to go fast, go to the track. Public roads are no place for triple digit speeds. Plus, once you actually learn to drive, you realize what "fast" really means, and likely have no interest in driving in such a manner on roads.

A modded WRX might be able to hit 150mph. It would be having some aero problems though...I certainly wouldn't want to take one there. Also realize that speedos generally read anywhere from 5-10% fast, so likely he thinks he's going faster than he is.

Fastest I've ever gone was a little over 125mph at the end of the front straight at Fontana. I've also gone over 120mph at the big track at Willow Springs. I probably had another 10mph or so, but with the aero package and gearing not much more (track-prepped '79 911, stock motor with 172hp). I never really cared for straight line speed though. Much more fun to drive Laguna Seca at double digit speeds than blast triple digits in a straight line
01-05-2009, 03:27 PM   #66
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Everybody's driving fast in Wyoming

We visit Yellowstone and Grand Tetons every year to shoot pics.

Between towns most of the Semi Trucks all do 90+ and when I'm holding at 100mph I get passed alot. Two cars passed me on my 15 minutes or so of 109mph cruise control experience.

I love Wyoming, but I do slow down for towns and observe Their posted limits

Safety first!

& No speeding tickets for me ;^)

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
If you want to go fast, go to the track. Public roads are no place for triple digit speeds. Plus, once you actually learn to drive, you realize what "fast" really means, and likely have no interest in driving in such a manner on roads.

A modded WRX might be able to hit 150mph. It would be having some aero problems though...I certainly wouldn't want to take one there. Also realize that speedos generally read anywhere from 5-10% fast, so likely he thinks he's going faster than he is.

Fastest I've ever gone was a little over 125mph at the end of the front straight at Fontana. I've also gone over 120mph at the big track at Willow Springs. I probably had another 10mph or so, but with the aero package and gearing not much more (track-prepped '79 911, stock motor with 172hp). I never really cared for straight line speed though. Much more fun to drive Laguna Seca at double digit speeds than blast triple digits in a straight line

Last edited by Samsungian; 01-05-2009 at 03:34 PM.
01-05-2009, 04:30 PM   #67
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Well

The best way to keep Pentax going is to continue to buy Pentax in my opinion. If the gear works for you, you should continue to buy the gear. Getting scared by numbers and not buying only makes matters worse.

Pentax does need to work on marketing but I am sure they already are if Hoya are serious which I am sure they are.

First make a statement to the market about what you intend to do (by offering new camera bodies) to show you are serious, then start your marketing after you get rave reviews of your product and earn some reputation. Sony just went through this, and came out of 2008 doubling their market share.

Pentax can do the same, they have the right products, they just need to push development then marketing.

And they need loyal followers to continue to support them.

Carl
01-05-2009, 05:02 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote

A modded WRX might be able to hit 150mph. It would be having some aero problems though...I certainly wouldn't want to take one there. Also realize that speedos generally read anywhere from 5-10% fast, so likely he thinks he's going faster than he is.
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Yeah, a decently modded one should hit those numbers easily. I never took mine on a high speed run but it had a pretty good setup (VF34, japanese model STi injectors, uppipe, downpipe, catback, big IC, tune, ran 21+ psi) and I don't doubt it'd go to 150 and well past if I'd ever wanted it to.

01-05-2009, 05:28 PM   #69
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ehmm, is it just me, or somehow "Pentax slips to 1.6% japanese market share" went into "modded Subaru WRX hits 150 mph @ 21psi"?

as a big car fan i have no complaints about the car-talk, but somehow i think it really is just slightly off-topic.
01-05-2009, 09:33 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
I swear there are more Suberus in Maine than Fords. It is considered a premium car up here and the resale value is through the roof.
Hi Ken, is this why Subaru dealers are so arrogant? This is a serious question since you have a better understanding of sales and marketing than I.

I want to buy a Subaru. I'm trying real hard. But my Give A Damn is get'n busted real quick.

When I went to dealer #1 he said that sales were great, the best they've ever seen. Yeah, right... December '08 sales for all automakers have collapsed 35-50% year-over-year. Then the sales gentleman got all sarcastic and nasty when I told him we just wanted to test drive and then talk about it when we got home.

Subie dealer #2 made me wait an hour, using the time honored sales tactic of trying to intimidate the customer by showing him that his time is worthless so therefore the dealer is in charge. All I wanted was a quote, which took 2 minutes. But to get it I had to finally walk in on the sales manager, who was having a nice social visit with the finance manager, and ask why they were ignoring me.

This is a camera forum so I won't go into any more car details. But I can't believe customers can get treated like we did in this day and age. And not just by Subaru dealers either, the VW dealer was apallingly bad too.

Last edited by tranq78; 01-06-2009 at 08:06 AM. Reason: grammer
01-05-2009, 09:34 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by elkarrde Quote
ehmm, is it just me, or somehow "Pentax slips to 1.6% japanese market share" went into "modded Subaru WRX hits 150 mph @ 21psi"?

as a big car fan i have no complaints about the car-talk, but somehow i think it really is just slightly off-topic.
Yeah, but we're having fun on this thread.
01-05-2009, 09:56 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
you should consider some simple things, too:

– Pentax marketing is awful to say the least. When I saw the first ads for the K10 here in Germany I did not understand, what they meant or aimed at. Must have bee a complete insider joke or something. Alas, it was the most nonsensical ad I had seen for quite a while. The current ads are only boring, but at least I can understand their message.
Despite that, even the typical consumer electronics discount stores sell Pentax gear... which supports your notion, that Pentax has a very dedicated followship.

- the Pentax product line is incomplete, to put it very friendly. There is no sight of a DA 400/4, which you envisage. By the way, exactly the lens I am longing for. But we won't get it anytime soon. There is also no sign for any other longer focal length, than the abominable 60-250 or the DA 300/4. I admit to have some problems understanding, why a company like Pentax, with obviously very tight r+d and production ressources markets three macro lenses, but does not have a 400mm or 500mm lens available. This is simply ignoring the markets.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. I agree with all parts of your post, and you obviously know what you’re talking about. It is very cute how Pentax have continued an old family notion, on how to make good cameras and then the people will find them. This really isn’t a business approach in the 21 century. Hopefully Hoya can ad a more professional approach to this. Though things are easier now, with Internet that people will stumble upon the untold camera maker. I'm more surprised that the rest of us found out :ugh:.



QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
I agree that Pentax needs to get the word out, and they need a model one step up from the K20D. It's good to focus on the budget market, because I have no doubt that all these companies will be eating dinner tonight based on what they bring home from the consumer market. I've seen (and heard) lots of professionals moan about how they support so much of the business because they pay so much, but the cold reality there is for every pro or dedicated amateur buying a D700, at least a hundred D40/60/80 cameras are sold. High price or not, it's hard to argue with who's holding their leash.
Exactly, people like the big model in the cabinet at the dealers; and then they buy the smaller one, with the frame of mind that one-day they’ll own the bigger model.
01-05-2009, 10:28 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
H

This is a camera forum so I won't go into any more car details. But I can't believe customers can get treated like we did in this day and age. And not just by Subaru dealers either, the VW dealer was apallingly bad too.
Email the dealers in your area and deal directly with the internet sales manager. Pick the one that is the most responsive. Dealerships are all over the map. I bought a Subie in '05 completely negotiated by email. I walked in, the car was waiting, spent about 20 minutes doing paperwork and drove home. My VW was the same way although we went back and forth on price because I had a number I was willing to pay and he didn't like it. I was in no hurry (I was on crutches from a bike crash), and 2 weeks later he emailed me and the deal was done. With my Audi I emailed a dealer in San Diego (I live in LA), we negotiated a price, I took the train down, got a ride from a friend to the dealership, and drove home. Don't mess with the tools in the showroom - it is rare you find a good salesguy there.

We now return you to "As the Pentax Turns." Brought to you buy Subaru.
01-05-2009, 10:34 PM   #74
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I would hate to add to off topicness but i love my 05 Legacy GT ... it has been a good car for me.
01-05-2009, 11:57 PM   #75
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Sorry for propagating off-topic stuff. But c'mon, it beats "Pentax is about to die" being posted over and over, month after month, year after year.

QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I usually browse the showroom when I get the oil changed. I'm pretty sure everything on the floor says "Indiana" now which kinda bummed me out. I prefer japan built and shipped. But I'll have another look. Heuberger Subaru TV ads say they are #1 dealer in USA, so again I'll ask next time I go for free espressos and free oil.

I agree, great cars in winter. In Spring Summer & Fall way too much fun with our Red Turbo 5speed. Our 2005 Forrester was built in Japan, and again I thought the current Forrester window stickers say "Indiana" now ;^(
Umm... actually it's a "Forester" but that's besides the point. The Forester did get a thorough redesign for 2009 and it's possible that it's built in the USA now.

The Imprezas and Outback Sports continue to be built in Japan. Apparently the Legacy (and by extension, the Outback) was part US, part Japan for a while and in 2004 went to all-US.

QuoteQuote:
My normal oil change guy told me he and his WRX club buddies drive thru South Park Colorado at 150-160mph. Do you think B*ll Sh*T? I havent gone that fast EVER even though the speedo goes there. So i don't know if these cars really go that fast. I've only gone 109mph in Wyoming on the way to Grand Tetons National Park with alot of pedal left and no courage to go any faster. Every thing seemed fine at that speed except my wife was not pleased. At 100mph shes all good and the car rides so well too.
Off the top of my head, a basic WRX is good for, oh, 145mph or so. STIs (and WRXs) have governors on them so the maximum speed is 155mph, but the STIs could certainly go over that without much difficulty with the governor removed. The 2009 WRX (with a big bump in power over previous versions) can probably top 155 easily also.

QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
Hi Ken, is this why Subaru dealers are so arrogant? This is a serious question since you have a better understanding of sales and marketing than I.

I want to buy a Subaru. I'm trying real hard. But my Give A Damn is get'n busted real quick.
It's those dealers, not the car line in general. As I mentioned, we have the #1 dealer in the USA here. You can go on their web site and see the price for every car. There is no dickering and the prices are very low. When it comes to accessories, they show you retail, invoice, and their price. They are happy to order cars for you and you still get all the same in-stock promotions. (3 of my 4 cars have been special orders and the 4th was a long-distance dealer trade.) Every car on the lot is unlocked with the key sitting on the seat. The salespeople encourage you to pick the car you like and drive it up to the showroom, they'll slap a plate on it, and off you go. There's zero pressure. It's really a great buying experience... very different than most dealers, like the Mazda dealer we bought from a couple years ago. (The wife wanted a third row of seats so traded in her Forester... let's just say that we won't be straying from Subaru again!) There are one or two other Subaru dealers in town but I don't even consider them. Service is great, too - we brought in the Forester for something near the end of the warranty and they noticed that the brakes were wearing, and they gave us all new brakes and rotors under warranty without us even mentioning them! If only all dealers could be even half this good...

OK, enough off-topic for me. You can get back to bashing Pentax now.
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