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01-06-2009, 04:07 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote

Also, you're wrong about where they're built. Legacys and Outbacks are built in the US, Imprezas and Outback Sports are built in Gunma, Japan.
Next town over from where I live. Years ago I used to haul their new cars out. These days I sometimes haul imported parts to the factory. If you could ever go there and see the totally unpresuming facilities, you'd never in your life guess that they're the home of an auto manufacturer at all, much less one with a worldwide presence.

I would offer some anecdotal comment about how they're not having any trouble selling cars in Japan, but since I'm practically next door to the factory one would have to expect to see a lot of them on the road around here.

01-06-2009, 04:43 AM   #77
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I want to visit your dealers website

I like the dealer invoice, retail & their price info upfront on website ;^)

Key in all the cars too? Wow, I thought free coffee , free wiper blades, free tire replacement when a rock cut the sidewall and hanging out with the mechanics while they work on my car was better than most dealers. I've got to check out their website for further enlightenment

So ,as you are a Subaru Guru, do you think they will make WRX Forester? Not like a Sports edition with fancy pedals and 17" tires but real WRX car with 6 speed and assorted performance items?

Now...Must get back to pentax.... Oh when we shoot the K20D and assorted K Mount lenses we get there in a Subaru ;^)





QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
Sorry for propagating off-topic stuff. But c'mon, it beats "Pentax is about to die" being posted over and over, month after month, year after year.


Umm... actually it's a "Forester" but that's besides the point. The Forester did get a thorough redesign for 2009 and it's possible that it's built in the USA now.

The Imprezas and Outback Sports continue to be built in Japan. Apparently the Legacy (and by extension, the Outback) was part US, part Japan for a while and in 2004 went to all-US.


Off the top of my head, a basic WRX is good for, oh, 145mph or so. STIs (and WRXs) have governors on them so the maximum speed is 155mph, but the STIs could certainly go over that without much difficulty with the governor removed. The 2009 WRX (with a big bump in power over previous versions) can probably top 155 easily also.


It's those dealers, not the car line in general. As I mentioned, we have the #1 dealer in the USA here. You can go on their web site and see the price for every car. There is no dickering and the prices are very low. When it comes to accessories, they show you retail, invoice, and their price. They are happy to order cars for you and you still get all the same in-stock promotions. (3 of my 4 cars have been special orders and the 4th was a long-distance dealer trade.) Every car on the lot is unlocked with the key sitting on the seat. The salespeople encourage you to pick the car you like and drive it up to the showroom, they'll slap a plate on it, and off you go. There's zero pressure. It's really a great buying experience... very different than most dealers, like the Mazda dealer we bought from a couple years ago. (The wife wanted a third row of seats so traded in her Forester... let's just say that we won't be straying from Subaru again!) There are one or two other Subaru dealers in town but I don't even consider them. Service is great, too - we brought in the Forester for something near the end of the warranty and they noticed that the brakes were wearing, and they gave us all new brakes and rotors under warranty without us even mentioning them! If only all dealers could be even half this good...

OK, enough off-topic for me. You can get back to bashing Pentax now.
01-06-2009, 04:47 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
My normal oil change guy told me he and his WRX club buddies drive thru South Park Colorado at 150-160mph. Do you think B*ll Sh*T?
Please ask them to drive carefully, I wouldn't want this to happen.

QuoteQuote:
Now...Must get back to pentax.... Oh when we shoot the K20D and assorted K Mount lenses we get there in a Subaru ;^)
Me, too. But it's Takumars and I get there in a Subaru Rex that's old enough to vote, I think.
01-06-2009, 07:56 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
It's those dealers, not the car line in general. As I mentioned, we have the #1 dealer in the USA here. You can go on their web site and see the price for every car. There is no dickering and the prices are very low. When it comes to accessories, they show you retail, invoice, and their price. They are happy to order cars for you and you still get all the same in-stock promotions. (3 of my 4 cars have been special orders and the 4th was a long-distance dealer trade.) Every car on the lot is unlocked with the key sitting on the seat. The salespeople encourage you to pick the car you like and drive it up to the showroom, they'll slap a plate on it, and off you go. There's zero pressure. It's really a great buying experience... very different than most dealers, like the Mazda dealer we bought from a couple years ago. (The wife wanted a third row of seats so traded in her Forester... let's just say that we won't be straying from Subaru again!) There are one or two other Subaru dealers in town but I don't even consider them. Service is great, too - we brought in the Forester for something near the end of the warranty and they noticed that the brakes were wearing, and they gave us all new brakes and rotors under warranty without us even mentioning them! If only all dealers could be even half this good...
Cool, very cool. My wife was only permitted a 5 minute test drive and only with the Subaru sales gentleman sitting beside her to monitor her activities. Ditto for the 10 minute VW test drive.

I wish Subaru Canada would bring in a diesel engine. That's what I want.

We can't really complain too much about Pentax. We have Ned and other Pentax reps who interact with us on the 'net. We've got Henry and Helen from B&H and Adorama who talk to us on this site. There are very few consumer brands with this level of interaction between the company, supply chain and end user.

01-06-2009, 09:08 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote

We now return you to "As the Pentax Turns." Brought to you buy Subaru.
That made my day.
01-06-2009, 09:57 AM   #81
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Ha! The Rex killed Kenny... In South Park ;^)

Indeed, thats exactly where kenny gets killed over & over again....

South Park, Colorado

;^)



QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
Please ask them to drive carefully, I wouldn't want this to happen.



Me, too. But it's Takumars and I get there in a Subaru Rex that's old enough to vote, I think.
01-06-2009, 10:35 AM   #82
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The Rex couldn't get out of its own way if its life depended on it. It's those speed demons in their WRX hotrods Kenny has to worry about.
01-06-2009, 12:52 PM   #83
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Bloomberg news: Subaru Sales Rise 0.3% in 2008

YouTube - Spotlight: Subaru

01-06-2009, 10:07 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
So ,as you are a Subaru Guru, do you think they will make WRX Forester? Not like a Sports edition with fancy pedals and 17" tires but real WRX car with 6 speed and assorted performance items?
The Forester XT that's been around for several years is a "real" WRX Forester, with the WRX turbo engine making similar power (actually more in the first year or two, I think), and is faster than a Porsche Cayenne SUV. In other parts of the world, they have offered a Forester STi, with the 300hp STi engine and 6-speed tranny. I don't know if there is a version based on the new '09 Forester. Any Subaru sold since, oh, 2002 or so that has a hood scoop is a legitimate turbo and hence pretty darn fast. The Forester XT is a real sleeper!

And yes, I haul my Pentax stuff around in my Subaru - K-mount and Takumars and other assorted stuff (see signature.)
01-07-2009, 07:32 AM   #85
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I had no idea STi existed since 2004 in japan

AH Google!

I had no clue that 6 speed Forester STi's were made since 2004 for homemarket Japan!

Ours is the XT 5 speed "sleeper" you mentioned that out accelerated porsche cayenne in 0-60 tests among other "fast off the show room floor models in late 2004 Road & Track magazine tests. Still 308 HP and 6 speed would be way too much fun, even though ours is already quite fun to drive. Maybe one day Subaru will make some left hand drive STi Foresters for USA delivery. I know if they did it would certainly become my favorite Pentax and Photo equiptment hauler.




QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
The Forester XT that's been around for several years is a "real" WRX Forester, with the WRX turbo engine making similar power (actually more in the first year or two, I think), and is faster than a Porsche Cayenne SUV. In other parts of the world, they have offered a Forester STi, with the 300hp STi engine and 6-speed tranny. I don't know if there is a version based on the new '09 Forester. Any Subaru sold since, oh, 2002 or so that has a hood scoop is a legitimate turbo and hence pretty darn fast. The Forester XT is a real sleeper!

And yes, I haul my Pentax stuff around in my Subaru - K-mount and Takumars and other assorted stuff (see signature.)
01-07-2009, 09:58 AM   #86
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The alerts in my email inbox are starting to look more and more like those of a tuning forum I used to post in.

Can we get back to the cameras now?
01-08-2009, 12:00 PM   #87
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I found it ! IDC Global DSLR & P&S production numbers.

Man for weeks I've been trying to remember who makes the annual camera sales and dslr sales available in their $4,500 report. Then it hit me! IDC and I located the very thread I first read about them, IDC. Google them if you want to read more:

"IDC Cameras 2007"



Here's the thread I first read:

IDC global camera and DSLR rankings for 2005-2006 - Photo.net Canon EOS Forum

And the Reuters article:

"Reuters

TOKYO ? Canon Inc. won the top market share in global digital camera shipments in 2006, and South Korea's Samsung Electronics jumped up the ranks to 5th place from 9th a year ago, researcher IDC said on Tuesday.

Tokyo-based Canon shipped 19.7 million digital cameras in 2006, accounting for 18.7 per cent of the overall market. Canon's shipments jumped 23.3 per cent from 2005, IDC said.

Industry wide digital camera shipments in 2006 rose 14.5 per cent to 106 million units from a year earlier, driven by the strong popularity of single-lens reflex (DSLR) models geared for photo enthusiasts and professionals and growing demand in emerging markets, IDC said.

DSLR shipments grew 39 per cent to 5 million units last year.

Sony Corp. was No. 2 in the market with a 15.8 per cent share, up from 15.2 per cent in 2005, benefiting from its entry into the DSLR market, IDC said.

Eastman Kodak, the only U.S. company among the top five digital camera makers, ranked third with 10 per cent, a drop from its 14.2 per cent share a year earlier. Olympus Corp., which came in fourth, trimmed its share to 8.6 per cent from 9.8 per cent in 2005.

"The big winner in 2006 was Samsung, who displaced Nikon and became the fifth-largest seller of digital cameras in the world," said Christopher Chute, an IDC analyst.

Samsung expanded its market share to 7.8 per cent in 2006, a huge jump from the 3.8 per cent it had a year earlier. Its shipments more than doubled, IDC said.

Nikon Corp., the world's second-biggest maker of professional cameras after Canon, ranked No. 6 in the overall digital camera market with a 7.6 per cent market share in 2006.

Canon also dominated the booming DSLR market, securing a 46.7 per cent share in 2006, with its shipments rising 30.7 per cent from a year earlier. But its share was trimmed from the 49.5 per cent it had in 2006 amid increased competition from rivals.

Nikon secured the No. 2 position in DSLRs with a 33 per cent market share. Its shipments jumped 35.9 per cent.

Sony, which bought the DSLR unit of Konica Minolta Holdings shipped 326,240 DSLRs in 2006, accounting for 6.2 per cent of the market.

Global Digital Still Camera Shipments by Vendor 2006 and 2005


Shipments Share(%) Shipments Share(%)

1. Canon 19,747,351 (18.7) 16,030,746 (17.4)

2. Sony 16,718,209 (15.8) 14,024,195 (15.2)

3. Kodak 10,567,943 (10.0) 13,144,883 (14.2)

4. Olympus 9,117,141 (8.6) 9,089,576 (9.8)

5. Samsung 8,281,648 (7.8) 3,546,367 (3.8)

6. Nikon 8,060,250 (7.6) 7,251,566 (7.9)

Global Digital SLR Camera Shipments by Vendor 2006 and 2005

Shipments Share(%) Shipments Share(%)

1. Canon 2,460,339 (46.7) 1,882,162 (49.5)

2. Nikon 1,740,169 (33.0) 1,280,172 (33.7)

3. Sony 326,240 (6.2) 0 0.0

4. Olympus 311,116 (5.9) 217,135 (5.7)

5. Pentax 285,932 (5.4) 175,112 (4.6)

(Source: IDC) "

>>>>>>>>>>>In just 85 days IDC will publish their 2008 sales numbers so we'll have a clue how the dslr and point and shoot numbers fleshed out. Now remember this report is 2006 for 2005 and 2006 so only Canon made full frame dslrs. Nikon and sony both offered full frame dslrs in 2008. For nikon they had two, D3 then D700 and Sony just recently added their first one A900.

For Me, Global unit numbers are far more revealing than Japan homemarket camera sales.

>>>>>>>>>And for sake of completeness and in one location here's the slash gear top 20 pie chart link for Japan only in year 2008 camera sales:

http://www.slashgear.com/two-big-continue-to-stomp-digital-slr-market-in-japan-3128291/


>>>>>>>>>>>>>Here's 2007 camera totals and some dslr totals. I'll post a better link when I come across it. You know, one that shows total dslr for Pentax in 2007 in global market:


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9882670-39.html




QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
Sony verstoot Pentax van derde plek best verkochte dslr's | Electronics | Tweakers.net Nieuws

Even if you don't read Dutch, the market share picture talks for itself.

Looking at the market share developments in Japan, can we still expect Pentax to be a brand to invest in?
Will sigma, tamron and others remain to invest enough into the Pentax mount? For 1.6% market share, I guess not.

Looking at these developments, I'd think again if I were in the various management teams of Hoya, Sigma, Tamron or Metz. Without proper new technical developments and enough marketing budgets I have serious doubt investing my personal budgets in future Pentax gear. Despite the fact that I like it best.

So, where to go next? Sony or Olympus? I'd hate to go to C**** or N****.

- Bert

Last edited by Samsungian; 01-08-2009 at 03:12 PM. Reason: I added link to 2007 IDC camera sales
01-08-2009, 10:08 PM   #88
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Well, I don't know how the global numbers will pan out eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Nikon, Canon, and Sony go 1, 2, and 3, respectively in DSLR sales. Who would be number 4 and the gap between 3 and 4, that I can't tell.
01-09-2009, 07:49 AM   #89
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Or Canon Nikon and Sony for 2008

I think its been years since Nikon topped Canon in global annual sales. I can tell you canon takes this top dog competetion seriously. From early december until last few days ago Canon dropped their minimum advertised pricing they impose on dealers. Likely 90% of all their lens line was 10% off. Example 300mm 2.8L IS usually sells at B&H for $4100 got down to $3728 and free delivery. It was very tempting for me as this is last item I considered getting to complete my eos system. But for same $3800 I can instead get D700 and their 14-24mm/2.8. Two items I'd really to add at somepoint soon. 5 days ago canon re-elevated their 300mm 2.8 IS to $4,100 so that bridge is burned and i am no longer tempted until next 3rd week of December 2009. Also in week before Christmas B&H included next day FedEx to all dslr sales. So with this observation I'll guess Canon ends 2008 #1 again.

For Pentax it is the fight with Olympus who makes truely "waterproof" E3 dslr and pricier "waterproof" lenses and larger than 1x optical viewfinder and articulated viewscreen. E3 was at $1298 for Holidays, now $1316. So 11 months after K20D was announced E3 was within a few bucks where Pentax launched K20D at 1-23-2008 for $1299.99.

We won't see IDC report until some media outlet pays their $4,500 to excerpt the report. Me I'd rather buy $4,500 in equiptment than get the unit number sales for 2008 but someone will buy it and report the dslr sales ;^)

QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Well, I don't know how the global numbers will pan out eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Nikon, Canon, and Sony go 1, 2, and 3, respectively in DSLR sales. Who would be number 4 and the gap between 3 and 4, that I can't tell.

Last edited by Samsungian; 01-09-2009 at 08:10 AM. Reason: "optical" misspelled
01-09-2009, 09:39 AM   #90
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Olympus DSLRs seem to be sold as many places (around me, at least) as Canon and Nikon DSLRs, even in the warehouse club. I'm not sure if I could go to any store locally and buy a Pentax DSLR. (There is one Ritz in a mall and the big local camera store has Samsung DSLRs last I checked.) That their sales are barely above Pentax's seems like a sad statement for them. It would be interesting to see sales numbers for them, and also, sales numbers for online retailers that cater to photo buffs like B&H, Adorama, Beach, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if Pentax is the #3 best seller at those places. But who knows?
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