Lens roadmap DA* 400 f5.6 in 2009?

Blue · 01-07-2009, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

There's still some Pentax 2000mm mirrors in inventory for sale & just $8,800 plus delivery & No Returns:

Pentax | Super Telephoto SMCP Reflex 2000mm f/13.5 | 24980 | B&H
. . .

Its out of production. BH has it as special order and it will depend on how long supplies last. According to Dmitrov, the last production dates on those I listed are 2004, 2004 and 2000. With the price of these and low demand, it isn't surprising that there are still new lenses available.

Quote:

# Important Notice!
# This is a special order item and is non-cancelable or returnable. Est. arrival at B&H is 7-14 business days(subject to availability). You will be charged upon placing your order

Last edited by Blue; 01-07-2009 at 09:58 AM.

Graydon · 01-07-2009, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Mirrors are not a replacement for real variable aperture supertelephoto glass.

The fixed aperture ones aren't. I don't see any reason why variable aperture ones wouldn't be for very long telephoto applications.

The difficulty with the existing solution is at least as much cost as weight; it's very, very expensive to make refractor telescopes with an objective lens larger than 100mm and no one seems willing to try above 150mm or so.

Maybe better lens technology will solve this. But that doesn't seem as likely as "maybe a refractor design isn't the best way to do this".

Originally posted by Samsungian

I've owned 4 mirror lenses, still own two, what I considered the best of the 4. You got to love the doughnut bokeh circles on anything shiny in background as thats what you get with them.

Hmmmm Doughnuts!!!

Bokeh is, to me, not a concern if the objective is to get a recognizable clear picture of a sparrow. It's record-keeping, with not much hope of art, and the picture will get cropped to the minimum bounding box that holds the whole sparrow.

Samsungian · 01-07-2009, 09:54 PM

One of the mirrors I kept is tamron adaptall 2 500mm f8. The other is Olympus 500mm f8. I once owned Nikon 500mm f8 and a canon fd. FD was worse. Nikon 2nd worse. Tamron 2nd best and best out of the four olympus OM mirror. No way to adapt this to pentax so Adaptall2 for you? You could get one and experiment. I've seen very good images done with 600mm sigma mirror on the internet. If these are too short then search ebay usa for the Israel seller of IDF surplus pentax lenses. He's had a few 1000mm and 2000mm mirror pentax over the years.

Originally posted by Graydon

The fixed aperture ones aren't. I don't see any reason why variable aperture ones wouldn't be for very long telephoto applications.

The difficulty with the existing solution is at least as much cost as weight; it's very, very expensive to make refractor telescopes with an objective lens larger than 100mm and no one seems willing to try above 150mm or so.

Maybe better lens technology will solve this. But that doesn't seem as likely as "maybe a refractor design isn't the best way to do this".

Bokeh is, to me, not a concern if the objective is to get a recognizable clear picture of a sparrow. It's record-keeping, with not much hope of art, and the picture will get cropped to the minimum bounding box that holds the whole sparrow.

Buddha Jones · 01-07-2009, 09:59 PM

I just noticed that according to this, Interchangeable Lenses : Digital Cameras : Imaging Systems Division : PENTAX, even the DA*200 & 300mm are considered super-telephoto...

Graydon · 01-08-2009, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

One of the mirrors I kept is tamron adaptall 2 500mm f8. The other is Olympus 500mm f8. I once owned Nikon 500mm f8 and a canon fd. FD was worse. Nikon 2nd worse. Tamron 2nd best and best out of the four olympus OM mirror. No way to adapt this to pentax so Adaptall2 for you? You could get one and experiment. I've seen very good images done with 600mm sigma mirror on the internet. If these are too short then search ebay usa for the Israel seller of IDF surplus pentax lenses. He's had a few 1000mm and 2000mm mirror pentax over the years.

That's helpful, thanks.

If I can't talk Pentax into making a variable aperture Cassegrain lens, the one I've been wanting to try is the Kenko-Tokina 800/f8; finding a Canadian supplier has so far proved challenging.

Blue · 01-08-2009, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Adam

I obtained my FA* 400mm for under $800- just saying

Adam, Do you want your money back?

rdrum76 · 01-13-2009, 04:19 PM

at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version.

how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for?

what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6?

thanks

Samsungian · 01-13-2009, 05:20 PM

Well Canon gets alot of coin for theirs. Some love it, a few hate it.

I wouldn't want to pay the bill.

You could be looking at $5600 if pentax prices their potential pair competetively:

Canon | Telephoto EF 400mm f/4.0 DO | 7034A002 | B&H Photo Video

Originally posted by rdrum76

at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version.

how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for?

what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6?

thanks

borno · 01-13-2009, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by rdrum76

at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version.

how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for?

what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6?

thanks

I'm with you brother

The 400mm would be perfect for me, I find 500mm a bit long for following birds hand held and 300mm a bit short. I think it would be about the same cost as a 300 f2.8 as it would have similar glass. It would have to be a good bit less than the canon for me to buy one.

mk07138 · 01-13-2009, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Well Canon gets alot of coin for theirs. Some love it, a few hate it.

I wouldn't want to pay the bill.

You could be looking at $5600 if pentax prices their potential pair competetively:

Canon | Telephoto EF 400mm f/4.0 DO | 7034A002 | B&H Photo Video

Thats also a Diffractive Optics lens which I do believe are more expensive. Their 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 DO is twice the price of the non DO 70-300mm f4.5-5.6.

As far as I know they don't have a 400mm f4 non DO lens but still, I'd imagine it being a lot cheaper.

rvannatta · 01-13-2009, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by rdrum76

at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version.

how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for?

what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6?

thanks

A slow 400 is really an awlful lense. It's too long for manythings and too slow for the rest. If it's an F5.6 it's pretty useless
with a TC. because of speed issues---with the auto focus disfunctional wide open, and rarely enoughlight to be other than wide open.

Blue · 01-13-2009, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by rvannatta

A slow 400 is really an awlful lense. It's too long for manythings and too slow for the rest. If it's an F5.6 it's pretty useless
with a TC. because of speed issues---with the auto focus disfunctional wide open, and rarely enoughlight to be other than wide open.

The A 400mm f5.6 may be considered slow, but its optical quality are very good. An AF f4 version of this lens would be interesting. There was the A* f2.8 400 but it was 5x heavier and 10 or 15x more expensive. The A weighs about 1240 grams and the A* weighs 6000 grams. In fact, there is an A* 400 for sale in the marketplace for $4-5000.

eurostar · 01-14-2009, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by rdrum76

what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6?

thanks

I bought mine, optically perfect but slightly abused on the outside, last year for 1,550 Euros.

Jonson PL · 01-14-2009, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by rdrum76

at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version.

how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for?

what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6?

thanks

The Canon DO 400/4 lens, is an extremely lightweight, special lens.

A Pentax 400/4 would be about the same price as a 300/2.8, 500/4.5, or 600/5.6.

Ron just got the Sigma 500/4.5 for US $3390 :
Well I did it. Sigma 500/4.5 [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Originally posted by Blue

The A 400mm f5.6 may be considered slow, but its optical quality are very good. An AF f4 version of this lens would be interesting. There was the A* f2.8 400 but it was 5x heavier and 10 or 15x more expensive. The A weighs about 1240 grams and the A* weighs 6000 grams. In fact, there is an A* 400 for sale in the marketplace for $4-5000.

Then if they should make a 400/5.6 lens, it should be from the A 400/5.6. As the FA* didn't have that good a reputation.

A DA* 600/5.6, a long time from now, might also be interesting

. But give us the DA* 400/4 first.

rdrum76 · 01-17-2009, 02:38 PM

give me the DA* 400mm f4 at $2,000

I am very budget conscious, but would love a big DA* 400 after hearing and seeing vnice IQ of the DA* 300

I just got a SMC 500mm f4.5 on a tripod which I am learning to deal with its size and manual issues, but could you hand-hold a DA* 400 f4; what weight could that be?

01-07-2009, 09:54 PM	#48
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	You could get a tamron adaptall 2 500mm and experiment? One of the mirrors I kept is tamron adaptall 2 500mm f8. The other is Olympus 500mm f8. I once owned Nikon 500mm f8 and a canon fd. FD was worse. Nikon 2nd worse. Tamron 2nd best and best out of the four olympus OM mirror. No way to adapt this to pentax so Adaptall2 for you? You could get one and experiment. I've seen very good images done with 600mm sigma mirror on the internet. If these are too short then search ebay usa for the Israel seller of IDF surplus pentax lenses. He's had a few 1000mm and 2000mm mirror pentax over the years. Originally posted by Graydon The fixed aperture ones aren't. I don't see any reason why variable aperture ones wouldn't be for very long telephoto applications. The difficulty with the existing solution is at least as much cost as weight; it's very, very expensive to make refractor telescopes with an objective lens larger than 100mm and no one seems willing to try above 150mm or so. Maybe better lens technology will solve this. But that doesn't seem as likely as "maybe a refractor design isn't the best way to do this". Bokeh is, to me, not a concern if the objective is to get a recognizable clear picture of a sparrow. It's record-keeping, with not much hope of art, and the picture will get cropped to the minimum bounding box that holds the whole sparrow.

01-13-2009, 04:19 PM	#52
rdrum76 Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 221 Original Poster	*i want a DA400mm f4 and DA* 1.4x TC** at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version. how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for? what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6? thanks

01-13-2009, 05:20 PM	#53
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Canon gets $5,300 for theirs & $300 for the TC Well Canon gets alot of coin for theirs. Some love it, a few hate it. I wouldn't want to pay the bill. You could be looking at $5600 if pentax prices their potential pair competetively: Canon \| Telephoto EF 400mm f/4.0 DO \| 7034A002 \| B&H Photo Video Originally posted by rdrum76 at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version. how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for? what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6? thanks

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01-07-2009, 09:30 AM	#46
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Samsungian There's still some Pentax 2000mm mirrors in inventory for sale & just $8,800 plus delivery & No Returns: Pentax \| Super Telephoto SMCP Reflex 2000mm f/13.5 \| 24980 \| B&H . . . Its out of production. BH has it as special order and it will depend on how long supplies last. According to Dmitrov, the last production dates on those I listed are 2004, 2004 and 2000. With the price of these and low demand, it isn't surprising that there are still new lenses available. Quote: # Important Notice! # This is a special order item and is non-cancelable or returnable. Est. arrival at B&H is 7-14 business days(subject to availability). You will be charged upon placing your order Last edited by Blue; 01-07-2009 at 09:58 AM.

01-07-2009, 09:30 PM	#47
Graydon Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 30	Originally posted by Samsungian Mirrors are not a replacement for real variable aperture supertelephoto glass. The fixed aperture ones aren't. I don't see any reason why variable aperture ones wouldn't be for very long telephoto applications. The difficulty with the existing solution is at least as much cost as weight; it's very, very expensive to make refractor telescopes with an objective lens larger than 100mm and no one seems willing to try above 150mm or so. Maybe better lens technology will solve this. But that doesn't seem as likely as "maybe a refractor design isn't the best way to do this". Originally posted by Samsungian I've owned 4 mirror lenses, still own two, what I considered the best of the 4. You got to love the doughnut bokeh circles on anything shiny in background as thats what you get with them. Hmmmm Doughnuts!!! Bokeh is, to me, not a concern if the objective is to get a recognizable clear picture of a sparrow. It's record-keeping, with not much hope of art, and the picture will get cropped to the minimum bounding box that holds the whole sparrow.

01-07-2009, 09:59 PM	#49
Buddha Jones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,587	I just noticed that according to this, Interchangeable Lenses : Digital Cameras : Imaging Systems Division : PENTAX, even the DA*200 & 300mm are considered super-telephoto...

01-08-2009, 01:30 PM	#50
Graydon Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 30	Originally posted by Samsungian One of the mirrors I kept is tamron adaptall 2 500mm f8. The other is Olympus 500mm f8. I once owned Nikon 500mm f8 and a canon fd. FD was worse. Nikon 2nd worse. Tamron 2nd best and best out of the four olympus OM mirror. No way to adapt this to pentax so Adaptall2 for you? You could get one and experiment. I've seen very good images done with 600mm sigma mirror on the internet. If these are too short then search ebay usa for the Israel seller of IDF surplus pentax lenses. He's had a few 1000mm and 2000mm mirror pentax over the years. That's helpful, thanks. If I can't talk Pentax into making a variable aperture Cassegrain lens, the one I've been wanting to try is the Kenko-Tokina 800/f8; finding a Canadian supplier has so far proved challenging.

01-08-2009, 04:46 PM	#51
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Adam I obtained my FA* 400mm for under $800- just saying Adam, Do you want your money back?

01-13-2009, 05:57 PM	#54
borno Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: md-usa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,580	Originally posted by rdrum76 at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version. how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for? what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6? thanks I'm with you brother The 400mm would be perfect for me, I find 500mm a bit long for following birds hand held and 300mm a bit short. I think it would be about the same cost as a 300 f2.8 as it would have similar glass. It would have to be a good bit less than the canon for me to buy one.

01-13-2009, 07:49 PM	#55
mk07138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frostburg Maryland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 151	Originally posted by Samsungian Well Canon gets alot of coin for theirs. Some love it, a few hate it. I wouldn't want to pay the bill. You could be looking at $5600 if pentax prices their potential pair competetively: Canon \| Telephoto EF 400mm f/4.0 DO \| 7034A002 \| B&H Photo Video Thats also a Diffractive Optics lens which I do believe are more expensive. Their 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 DO is twice the price of the non DO 70-300mm f4.5-5.6. As far as I know they don't have a 400mm f4 non DO lens but still, I'd imagine it being a lot cheaper.

01-13-2009, 10:04 PM	#56
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by rdrum76 at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version. how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for? what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6? thanks A slow 400 is really an awlful lense. It's too long for manythings and too slow for the rest. If it's an F5.6 it's pretty useless with a TC. because of speed issues---with the auto focus disfunctional wide open, and rarely enoughlight to be other than wide open.

01-13-2009, 10:27 PM	#57
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by rvannatta A slow 400 is really an awlful lense. It's too long for manythings and too slow for the rest. If it's an F5.6 it's pretty useless with a TC. because of speed issues---with the auto focus disfunctional wide open, and rarely enoughlight to be other than wide open. The A 400mm f5.6 may be considered slow, but its optical quality are very good. An AF f4 version of this lens would be interesting. There was the A* f2.8 400 but it was 5x heavier and 10 or 15x more expensive. The A weighs about 1240 grams and the A* weighs 6000 grams. In fact, there is an A* 400 for sale in the marketplace for $4-5000.

01-14-2009, 01:25 AM	#58
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by rdrum76 what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6? thanks I bought mine, optically perfect but slightly abused on the outside, last year for 1,550 Euros.

01-14-2009, 07:07 AM	#59
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by rdrum76 at first i was merely hoping for a 400 f5.6, but now I want DA* 400mm f4; btw f2.8 will never happen since they opted for 300mm f4, instead of a 2.8 version. how much should a DA* 400mm f4 go for? what is a good price for a SMC-A* 600mm 5.6? thanks The Canon DO 400/4 lens, is an extremely lightweight, special lens. A Pentax 400/4 would be about the same price as a 300/2.8, 500/4.5, or 600/5.6. Ron just got the Sigma 500/4.5 for US $3390 : Well I did it. Sigma 500/4.5 [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Originally posted by Blue The A 400mm f5.6 may be considered slow, but its optical quality are very good. An AF f4 version of this lens would be interesting. There was the A* f2.8 400 but it was 5x heavier and 10 or 15x more expensive. The A weighs about 1240 grams and the A* weighs 6000 grams. In fact, there is an A* 400 for sale in the marketplace for $4-5000. Then if they should make a 400/5.6 lens, it should be from the A 400/5.6. As the FA* didn't have that good a reputation. A DA* 600/5.6, a long time from now, might also be interesting . But give us the DA* 400/4 first.

01-17-2009, 02:38 PM	#60
rdrum76 Inactive Account Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 221 Original Poster	give me the DA* 400mm f4 at $2,000 I am very budget conscious, but would love a big DA* 400 after hearing and seeing vnice IQ of the DA* 300 I just got a SMC 500mm f4.5 on a tripod which I am learning to deal with its size and manual issues, but could you hand-hold a DA* 400 f4; what weight could that be?