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01-23-2009, 01:57 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
Well with their market share in Japan down from almost 5% to 1.6%, maybe they should be listening more to users in other regions

Who really knows what they are going to do in the future, Hoya's long term goals may well be very different to the old Pentax board...
That 1.6% number is complete junk, I thought that everyone knew by now...

01-23-2009, 02:42 AM   #152
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To original post:

K10D was a WOW! product.

I did not once regret i got it when it came out, and despite few flaws i`m a big fan of our system too...

If they make something as surprising as K10D they got my wallet open.. i guess!
01-23-2009, 04:02 AM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
That 1.6% number is complete junk, I thought that everyone knew by now...
nope didn't know.. but don't just say its junk, please show me/us quotes to show what the real figures are? much more helpfull...

Original 2008 year 1.6% Japan share claim below...

“Big Two” continue to stomp Digital SLR market in Japan - SlashGear

The only fault I can see is they only counted the top 20 sellers (down to 1% market share) so it is possible the K10d and K20d could have done 0.9% share each bringing Pentax up to 3.4% overall.... Even this figure is below what I think the market share in Australia would be, not sure about Europe and US, my only point is maybe it would bode well for Pentax to listen to what customers outside of Japan want too, as the person I replied to seemed to claim they cared nothing for the opinions of markets outside Japan...

Last edited by joele; 01-23-2009 at 04:10 AM.
01-23-2009, 08:45 AM   #154
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Whether or not Pentax cares about the opinions of N. American and European photogs is probably not public info. They sure don't appear to give a rip or factor in such opinions. Their complete avoidance of "spec war" games with the big 2 would suggest that the "spec war" parlance of the Western Hemisphere is not a major concern to them.

In defense of Pentax...they did win the megapixel war for a few months with the K20D. But that seemed more of a safety harness tying them tightly to Samsung more so than an attempt to one-up the competition--note the lack of marketing referencing the megapixel issue.

And once again, does it matter if Pentax goes under? How will it effect you? I own an FA*600 and FA*250-600, plus several other FA* and Ltd. lenses--I'm in really deep--as in several tens of thousands of dollars deep. My presumption is if they disappear, my cost for used bodies to pair with my lenses will go down considerably. But the lenses will still work fine. On the other hand collector value could go up. So either my lenses gain in value and I can cash in to switch brands if desired...or the cost of continued use goes down as bodies are dumped on the market. I'm not sure how I see myself losing out in either scenario. Future whiz-bang developments from other companies? I say so what. I don't even use autofocus and the pixel counts are plenty high for my current uses for DSLR bodies. Even JPEGs from a K10D converted to TIFFs produce more than the file size the magazines I sell to want for up to 2 page spreads. RAW goes way beyond what's needed for mags. So given present knowledge (what little I really do know) I just don't see a problem even if the worst case scenario were to happen. And as an optimist, I don't expect anything untoward to happen. It will all be fine. Just wish more of my images were as fine!

01-23-2009, 09:42 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
The only fault I can see is they only counted the top 20 sellers (down to 1% market share)
Not counting 6.7% is quite a fault, when you want to think about those numbers as total market share
01-23-2009, 09:47 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
nope didn't know.. but don't just say its junk, please show me/us quotes to show what the real figures are? much more helpfull...

Original 2008 year 1.6% Japan share claim below...

“Big Two” continue to stomp Digital SLR market in Japan - SlashGear

The only fault I can see is they only counted the top 20 sellers (down to 1% market share) so it is possible the K10d and K20d could have done 0.9% share each bringing Pentax up to 3.4% overall.... Even this figure is below what I think the market share in Australia would be, not sure about Europe and US, my only point is maybe it would bode well for Pentax to listen to what customers outside of Japan want too, as the person I replied to seemed to claim they cared nothing for the opinions of markets outside Japan...
Well that number would have been true if Pentax only had the K200D to sell:
“Big Two” continue to stomp Digital SLR market in Japan - SlashGear

Some comments in the thread contest the validity of those numbers by the way:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/45726-pentax-slips-1-6...5th-place.html

This is just not possible. Some guys really do not read what they write ordefenitely have a methodology problem, big time.
01-23-2009, 10:02 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
and if their "niche" position is going to be high-spec ENTRY level dslr's, then I foresee a parting of the ways between then and me pretty soon..

I want a brand that I can grow my photography with, not a brand that I always end up sitting at the kiddies table with at every function...
Then why did you buy one in the first place? Pentax make cameras for enthusiasts (amateurs), not photojournalists. Not all amatuers have lots of money but they like taking good pictures.

If you are worried about your ego, then you are comparing the wrong thing. I love it when other photographers look at A2 prints from the K20D hand held at 1/20 and register amazement (and some dismay) that a £500 camera can do things that they thought they needed a 1DS for.

If you are more worried about the size of the brick around your neck than the quality of your prints, then you are not a photographer, just another gear head IMO.
01-23-2009, 10:05 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
If you are worried about your ego, then you are comparing the wrong thing. I love it when other photographers look at A2 prints from the K20D hand held at 1/20 and register amazement (and some dismay) that a £500 camera can do things that they thought they needed a 1DS for.
Actually I get an even bigger grin when they see a 20x30 print and then their jaw drops when I tell them it came from a DLux3 (ie p&s).

01-23-2009, 10:19 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Boggs Quote
Whether or not Pentax cares about the opinions of N. American and European photogs is probably not public info. They sure don't appear to give a rip or factor in such opinions. Their complete avoidance of "spec war" games with the big 2 would suggest that the "spec war" parlance of the Western Hemisphere is not a major concern to them.
Au contraire , the opinions of the European market are of great interest to them (France has the highest market share of Pentax in the world) and I assume North America too. The K10 and K20 are not Japanese focused products.

If anything I would say Canon and Sony focus almost entirely on the US market for the top end, and the Asian market at the bottom end, and so alienate many Europeans.
QuoteQuote:
In defense of Pentax...they did win the megapixel war for a few months with the K20D. But that seemed more of a safety harness tying them tightly to Samsung more so than an attempt to one-up the competition--note the lack of marketing referencing the megapixel issue.
If you look at the priorities of the K20D and the K10D and compare the specification of the bodies (the various compromises) its obvious to see where Pentax concentrate their efforts compared to Canon and Nikon.

QuoteQuote:
And once again, does it matter if Pentax goes under? How will it effect you? I own an FA*600 and FA*250-600, plus several other FA* and Ltd. lenses--I'm in really deep--as in several tens of thousands of dollars deep.
Me too. But I suspect if they disappear, the K mount will not. The installed base and all the associated patents are too valuable to someone. Its worth noting that since AF became normal, not one major lens mount has disappeared and a new one (4/3) appeared.
QuoteQuote:
My presumption is if they disappear, my cost for used bodies to pair with my lenses will go down considerably. But the lenses will still work fine. On the other hand collector value could go up. So either my lenses gain in value and I can cash in to switch brands if desired...or the cost of continued use goes down as bodies are dumped on the market. I'm not sure how I see myself losing out in either scenario. Future whiz-bang developments from other companies? I say so what. I don't even use autofocus and the pixel counts are plenty high for my current uses for DSLR bodies. Even JPEGs from a K10D converted to TIFFs produce more than the file size the magazines I sell to want for up to 2 page spreads. RAW goes way beyond what's needed for mags. So given present knowledge (what little I really do know) I just don't see a problem even if the worst case scenario were to happen. And as an optimist, I don't expect anything untoward to happen. It will all be fine. Just wish more of my images were as fine!
Well thats something you DO have control over
01-23-2009, 10:36 AM   #160
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My own feeling is that Samsung wants to compete with Sony in every market for reasons that are not fully rational.

So whatever is the future of Pentax, I do think that the K-mount have some future. Not even counting on the ambition of some chinese OEM maker.

And to confirm *isteve, there is not a month when Pentax do not buy full page of advertising in the magazines. According to last reponse photo, Pentax has a 11% DSLR market share on part with Sony.

Pentax have very positive comments weither on magazines or on French web. It has the reputation of being the best bang for your bucks and having the most complete range of lenses for APSC.

Regards,
Guillaume
01-23-2009, 11:34 AM   #161
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I don't get why Japan market sales matter

Is it that revealing whats up in japan market place in determining Global camera demand? As I have pointed out, I own canon and now nikon too. For some time now I've read those forums too and I have to say, I've never seen thread dedicated to what sells in Japan's homemarket. Its interesting but what does it tell people in UK, USA, Germany ect about what to buy?

The IDC global unit numbers for dslr sales will be out in early March for all of 2008. These are unit numbers not total sales so Canon's $2,700 5D II is weighted the same as K20D $700. Meaning theres yet another person potentially buying lenses and assessories from the manufacturer, new. Now if we looked at total camera sales dollars, euros, pounds, ect I have a strong feeling Nikon and Canon dominate the market.

Me I look at prodigital2000 an ebay seller feedback every few days and if you do this too you'll notice theres four to five Panasonic G-1 buyers on each 25 item page whereas several pages have no K20D buyer feedback. Its common knowledge prodigital2000 has BEST PRICE on K20D so they should represent the market well?

I think Panasonic G-1 will surprise alot of people with their unit sales numbers for 2008 even though it was released in fall 2008 as opposed to K20D in January 2008.




QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Well that number would have been true if Pentax only had the K200D to sell:
“Big Two” continue to stomp Digital SLR market in Japan - SlashGear

Some comments in the thread contest the validity of those numbers by the way:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/45726-pentax-slips-1-6...5th-place.html

This is just not possible. Some guys really do not read what they write ordefenitely have a methodology problem, big time.
01-23-2009, 11:40 AM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I think Panasonic G-1 will surprise alot of people with their unit sales numbers for 2008 even though it was released in fall 2008 as opposed to K20D in January 2008.
I think the G1 will do far better in Japan than the rest of the world. At least until they lower the price.
01-23-2009, 11:47 AM   #163
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I considered G-1

I came close to buying G-1 to just adapt my old canon FD lenses I still own, like 200mm 2.8 and 400mm 4.5. Both were exceptional on film so I kept them over the years for some digital possibilities in the future.

Instead I bought D700 9 days ago before the price popped back up to original issue due to yen domination of my devalued dollar bills.

I've seen several G-1 forums now. Do a goggle search and play with the key search words and you may be amazed at how well the G-1 is being received and numerous forums that have sprung up in its wake.

Oh yeah, G-1 sells at prodigital2000 buy it now with lens for $599 free delivery. In auction it can be bought as low as $480 plus $30 delivery for same camera/kit lens combo. G-1 is Part of the reason I do frequent prodigital2000 searches


QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
I think the G1 will do far better in Japan than the rest of the world. At least until they lower the price.
01-23-2009, 12:47 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
I think the G1 will do far better in Japan than the rest of the world. At least until they lower the price.
QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I came close to buying G-1 to just adapt my old canon FD lenses I still own, like 200mm 2.8 and 400mm 4.5. Both were exceptional on film so I kept them over the years for some digital possibilities in the future.

Instead I bought D700 9 days ago before the price popped back up to original issue due to yen domination of my devalued dollar bills.

I've seen several G-1 forums now. Do a goggle search and play with the key search words and you may be amazed at how well the G-1 is being received and numerous forums that have sprung up in its wake.

Oh yeah, G-1 sells at prodigital2000 buy it now with lens for $599 free delivery. In auction it can be bought as low as $480 plus $30 delivery for same camera/kit lens combo. G-1 is Part of the reason I do frequent prodigital2000 searches
I'm not talking about the enthusiast market, I think the G-1 will do pretty well there. I'm talking about the entry level market, those who buy from large brick-and-mortar retailers like Best Buy, etc., and I think the G-1 has the potential for mass appeal there if they lower the price, but not at its existing retail cost.
01-23-2009, 01:10 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I'll say WOW if they ever release the 60-250, although I am no longer planning on buying one.
Same here, I'll make do with 55-300mm I have and get either the DA* 300mm this summer. I'm going to rent it first though.
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