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01-14-2009, 04:00 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
But the market is already awash with cheap cameras. How are Pentax supposed to undercut companies that can build more product faster and cheaper like Sony or Nikon? The soccer mums already have a whole selection to choose from, and "yet another boring plastic camera" is not going to help Pentax. Besides, the competition is forcing prices down so much there are no margins at this end of the market any more.
That is a great question, the boat may have sailed I guess. They may need this rugged/all weather niche which is promising but we're all talking BS unless we have some numbers that breaks out the DSLR sales in terms of the buyer profile i,.e how many buyers are there for a mid range, high quality camera ala a "limited" camera?

01-14-2009, 04:59 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
That is a great question, the boat may have sailed I guess. They may need this rugged/all weather niche which is promising but we're all talking BS unless we have some numbers that breaks out the DSLR sales in terms of the buyer profile i,.e how many buyers are there for a mid range, high quality camera ala a "limited" camera?
I doubt they are going to give away any market research that will have cost a small fortune to gather, but I would say most people on this forum and most photography enthusiasts would at least be interested, especially if they travel and like outdoor photography, primarily. Whether they buy or not is of course a matter of desirability and price.

If they really wanted to be daring, they would hire a European design house to come up with a "look" for the new cameras and work on the ergo's - much like Canon with with the T90 designed by Luigi Colani which re-invigorated the SLR market and set the shape of all SLRs today.

Canon Camera Museum | Design Hall
01-14-2009, 05:33 PM   #93
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Well they could come to me for the research considering that's what I do for a crust

I don't think the product is that tricky to make or market, you just have to know there are buyers for it. It's right up my alley anyway.
01-18-2009, 09:59 AM   #94
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A Wow item I would like to see from Pentax would be a digital camera with interchangable finders like the old LX. That would set Pentax apart from the crowd.

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01-18-2009, 05:53 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Canon, Nikon and Sony are like GM, Ford and Chrysler. Leica is Porsche perhaps but Pentax ought to think more like BMW than Nissan or Toyota. BMW has been incredibly successful without ever having made a cheap car or a model range with more than 5 platforms. In fact they built most of their success with just three cars, the 3 series, 5 series and 7 series and it was the 3 and 5 that made them a global brand - and they are still independent and profitable.
During the early and mid 70's BMW established itself as maker of a series of compact Executive Sedans (2002 in NA) and larger luxury cars. Their focus was innovative engineering and marketed to the younger driving enthusiast. Mercedes was for dad. Once these brand id's were established BMW ferociously extended the market, establishing premium desirability and pricing. In effect, the BMW of today was created 40 years ago.

To actually penetrate some segment of the pro market Pentax would need to establish a system line for that category, as well as professional support services, and technological superiority. That doesn't seem likely.

Photography was one of the first "adult toy" hardware/hobby purchases to sweep the US in the 60's, and Pentax was well positioned to benefit. By the mid-70's Pentax had a built reputation similar to BMW's, when introducing the K-mount, while hoping to extend their reputation for fine lenses. Remember the SMC coating was a big engineering deal, though it wasn't the first coating and though they bought the patents from an American company. Nikon was for pros and dad - Mercedes.

Unfortunately for Pentax, Canon had introduced the F-1 with a bayonet mount in 1971 and set about creating a massive camera system, thus becoming a real competitor to Pentax and Nikon in the pro market, especially action shooting. Canon actually created needs (and products to meet the needs) with their system cameras. Coincidentally in the US spectator sports grew rapidly and the market for action photographs grew with it. Canon established its program of getting a body into the hands of as many visible pros as possible and selling their cameras to the next generation of aspirational hobbyists. Just as BMW, the Canon of today was created 40 years ago.

Pentax failed to develop a true system camera to compete with Canon and Nikon, so although they competed fairly equally in new features and models for the amateur market, even answering Olympus' OM series, acceptance of Canon by professionals eventually trickled down to brand-conscious consumers.

Hoya/Pentax needs to establish a brnad philosophy, expolit that ferociously and consistently across all ranges and extend it into the future consistently and without pause. It seems thier new direction is the small, durable, sealed camera for outdoors enthusiasts with excellent lenses and excellent price to value.
01-19-2009, 10:57 AM   #96
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Wow product for me will be FF Pentax camera with good noise control up to ISO 6400 , good DR, consistently accurate AF and price tag under $2K. I am not asking much, but if Pentax can do that, it will definitely win my wallet.

Pentax did a lot of WOW products starting from mini SLRs system in the 80s and ending with my 4mp MX Video/still camera. I don't think they benefited financially much from all this funny gadgets, maybe it's time to start making cameras that just match competition and let us utilize really nice Pentax lenses. After all, people are buying and cannibalizing FA Limited lenses for years just to use them on EOS cameras.

Also fully functional small APS-C camera , like my isdD would be nice. Not sure what the price should be, maybe a $1000, but it should be the size of Km and should have 2 dials and all the dedicated buttons found on istD. 12MP would be more then enough for me. Not sure if I would care about SR and whether sealing for this camera. I never hesitated using my istD in light rain or snow, never had a problem with it in 6 years. I would definitely like to see again, accurate AF and good ISO maybe up to 3200. Both cameras should have micro adjustment for AF.

If Pentax can make both cameras and not screw anything in the process, that would be WOW, IMHO.

Last edited by awo425; 01-19-2009 at 02:36 PM.
01-19-2009, 11:31 AM   #97
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Hmm... let's see...
Wow product for me would be a Pentax high resolution (20MP+?) ~1.3x crop camera (not really FF, to keep a good price - ~2000 euro, yes I would pay this amount of money) with excellent image quality at lower ISO, and very good (a clear step-up compared to K20D) at high ISO.
It should have an excellent viewfinder, at least on "FF level"; of course, weather sealing and improved performance (AF and general camera operation speed). I don't care much about movies, live view is nice to have but give me removable prisms/viewfinder accessories and I won't complain!
Another thing: it should be really, really quiet. And a mechanical jewel, as our Limiteds are.

However, it's way too late for this - what Pentax will launch this year, won't change because of this thread. I think they'll have something really nice, though... in the mean time, my K20D is still an excellent (and way underused) camera.

P.S. A FF for under 2000$ (list price) means you want Pentax to lose money
01-19-2009, 11:53 AM   #98
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A new apc camera with near perfect noise free iso1600 or a full frame camera would wow me, not sure what else would.
I don't think i'm asking for much.
my 2cents...

01-19-2009, 02:24 PM   #99
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Offer the limiteds in a Canon/Nikon mount. Wow! :-)
01-19-2009, 02:39 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Quote
Offer the limiteds in a Canon/Nikon mount. Wow! :-)
as funny as it sound I think if FA 31/1.8 and FA 77/1.8 in Canon and Nikon mounts will sell well.
01-19-2009, 02:49 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
as funny as it sound I think if FA 31/1.8 and FA 77/1.8 in Canon and Nikon mounts will sell well.
5D + FA 77 f/1.8 = pure lust.
01-19-2009, 03:28 PM   #102
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Pentax needs a pro WOW photographer again

01-19-2009, 03:57 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by ibbe Quote
Pentax needs a pro WOW photographer again

I'm working on it
01-19-2009, 04:06 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
5D + FA 77 f/1.8 = pure lust.
besides the size advantage, is there conclusive evidence that the FA77 is better than the EF 85mm? i wouldn't think so ...
01-19-2009, 04:27 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
as funny as it sound I think if FA 31/1.8 and FA 77/1.8 in Canon and Nikon mounts will sell well.
Of course it would sell. But demoting Pentax to a 3rd-party maker? That's a big no-no.
And it would seriously affect the DSLR sales; one of the reasons to buy Pentax is their lenses. It's bad enough that some of them (optical designs only) are used by Tokina, even a Limited! (fortunately, the Tokina version is butt-ugly).
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