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01-20-2009, 06:45 PM   #121
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Hi there

Whilst being fully mindful of the prevailing world recession that is unfortunately reeking untold havoc upon millions of hard-working individuals and corporations at the moment, it is nevertheless my belief that if Pentax ever wishes to be regarded nowadays as a SERIOUS contender in professional circles rather than simply being seen as a niche outsider, it simply has no option but to offer a full-frame DSLR in the foreseeable future AND provide a comprehensive range of lenses to go with it !
The pro's & cons about this matter have already been discussed to death on the forum, but I feel bound to remind members that Nikon's D700 'FF compact' professional SLR is already available, as are Sony's A900 and Canon's recently announced EOS 5D Mark II.
More to the point, where the hell are Pentax in all this ?....although I have a sneaking suspicion that their marketing division may have successfully patented an 'invisibility suit' ! APS-C cameras are all well and good
for the moment, but as the well-worn phrase goes: 'time stands still for no man' and that includes Pentax.


Last edited by Confused; 01-23-2009 at 08:50 AM.
01-20-2009, 07:03 PM   #122
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It's been stated that being a "niche" player is indeed a perfectly viable (and perhaps even preferable) option. Sony is taking the initiative to become a major player and they're taking serious losses in the process. They can afford to do so. Pentax, even under Hoya, quite possibly cannot sustain the same sort of losses. However, it can remain quite profitable to its owners as a niche player.
01-20-2009, 11:04 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
It's been stated that being a "niche" player is indeed a perfectly viable (and perhaps even preferable) option. Sony is taking the initiative to become a major player and they're taking serious losses in the process. They can afford to do so. Pentax, even under Hoya, quite possibly cannot sustain the same sort of losses. However, it can remain quite profitable to its owners as a niche player.
What are the features/concepts that define Pentax's niche?

APS-C DSLR maker? That's a pretty crowded niche if you ask me...

Sure they have some special features and lenses (3 pancake lenses, weathersealed reasonably priced bodies) but even these are not 100% specific of Pentax (A700/D300 are weathersealed, Nikon and Olympus are offering pancake lenses) and are mutually exclusive (ie pancake are not weathersealed).

Perhaps Pentax can live happily and profitably without selling large numbers of items but that's something different from being in a niche IMO.
01-21-2009, 12:34 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by sflights Quote
*cough* touch screen *cough*
You MUST be kidding!

I have a Sony TRV-70 with a touch screen instead of mechanical controls. What a pain to use!

Please, no touch screens IF they replace mechanical controls!

01-21-2009, 12:42 AM   #125
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Hell yeah.. I'd rather have a TOUGH screen Make it scratch-resistant like the D3 screen

Make it high res too. A rotating/moveable screen like the Oly E-3 would be fantastic.

I really like the idea of having backlit buttons.
01-21-2009, 12:43 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Sure they have some special features and lenses (3 pancake lenses, weathersealed reasonably priced bodies) but even these are not 100% specific of Pentax (A700/D300 are weathersealed, Nikon and Olympus are offering pancake lenses) and are mutually exclusive (ie pancake are not weathersealed).
The A700 and D300 aren't fully sealed. The only cameras that are sealed like the K20D are the E-3, D3, and 1D series.
01-21-2009, 10:48 AM   #127
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Ok, so offering the limiteds in a mount that keeps up with the times might be a death nell for Pentax bodies. What about the other way around then? Offer a Pentax body with full function interchangable lens mounts that would allow you to shoot any manufacturer's lenses. That way we could all build our lens collections around the brand we keep threatening to switch to if Pentax doesn't produce the *#%^!! camera we want this year! ;-)
01-21-2009, 12:41 PM   #128
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Here's something that's bothered my mind for a while...

The "PENTAX" official font is boring.

I'm not saying this will shake up the market. A stylized font would be news, and possibly give the products a little more aesthetic value. And please don't make it all caps.

01-21-2009, 01:35 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Sure they have some special features and lenses (3 pancake lenses, weathersealed reasonably priced bodies) but even these are not 100% specific of Pentax (A700/D300 are weathersealed, Nikon and Olympus are offering pancake lenses) and are mutually exclusive (ie pancake are not weathersealed).
....
As far as I know Olympust only has 25mm pancake, and Nikon only has 45/2.8.
are there any more?
01-21-2009, 02:25 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
Here's something that's bothered my mind for a while...

The "PENTAX" official font is boring.

I'm not saying this will shake up the market. A stylized font would be news, and possibly give the products a little more aesthetic value. And please don't make it all caps.
I actually like the all caps from Pentax. The font has a classic look to it. Or maybe I'm just telling myself that because I am deep in with Pentax.
01-21-2009, 02:49 PM   #131
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I'd be very much wowed if they make a decent 200-400mm f4 lens.
01-21-2009, 03:25 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
Here's something that's bothered my mind for a while...

The "PENTAX" official font is boring.

I'm not saying this will shake up the market. A stylized font would be news, and possibly give the products a little more aesthetic value. And please don't make it all caps.
Can't say I agree with you there. I actually love the PENTAX logo, all red and capitalized. It stands out. Even the name itself has a special ring to it that no other brand has.

What's most interesting, though, is that Pentax have not changed their logo at all since the brand was launched so many years ago.
01-21-2009, 05:51 PM   #133
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Pentax is pretty much the only one who hasn't changed their logo in all these years, which is cool

I'm wondering (and thinking about changing...it's my camera after all) is why the logo on the camera and lenses are not red. A red Sharpie or paint would solve that...I still want to do it on the camera.
01-21-2009, 07:46 PM   #134
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Actually the font for the Pentax logo on the K20D and newer cameras were tweaked slightly from the previous models (K10D and earlier). The letters are now narrower and taller. Personally I prefer the older style with the lower x-height. Take a look between the camera models and you will know what I mean.
01-21-2009, 10:38 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
As far as I know Olympust only has 25mm pancake, and Nikon only has 45/2.8.
are there any more?
I think Voigtlander also offers a pancake lens (is it a 40f2?).


The point being that what is usually referred as a "niche player" is a company who has isolated (or created) a well defined segment of a given market and positioned itself on it: the segment might be small but people wanting the specific features that define it have no other choice than buying from this company (ie Leica for instance).

If one considers that the pancakes make Pentax a niche player, should we consider Canon also as a niche player since they are the only one offering a super-macro MPE lens or a 85f1.2?

I don't think Pentax's market fits this definition since I have difficulties putting a clear definition on what makes it special/separated from the other guys.

Ultimately, I think the "niche" argument a little bit dangerous when it is used to put aside sales figures as "non important because we are different, thus the market rules don't really apply to us".

I don't think Hoya's people see it that way...
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