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01-12-2009, 02:47 PM   #46
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There should be no "I" in this discussion if we can help it as we're discussing potential market moves.

Use a 20D for about 3 minutes and you'll see the difference, you change things by just flicking a dial not taking the camera away from your eye and fiddling with menus.

QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
you can buy it as just body and lens if you want a K-m instead of a K2000. for you it would be different but for someone who has never used a K20 it wont be lacking anything, particularly for what it is. I have never even held a K20 much less used it. nor have I ever owned a K10 so maybe my view is too different from yours. that of course does not mean I am not 'pro' enough for such cameras, but I just do not need such cameras for what I do.


01-12-2009, 02:50 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by NewRsoul Quote
I'm sorry but $200 is not a little difference between models! In fact it's only this low because both models are priced right down to end of life type pricing.

this is also the street price. Pentax does not share the same pricing scheme I assure you.

Pentax USA currently has the K20 body listed at 999.95 and the K200 body at 599.95. that's clearly double the street price difference, and I think accurately reflects the differences between the two models.
01-12-2009, 03:04 PM   #48
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Seamius, what's wrong with wishing for K20D functionality in a smaller (K-m) form factor? For what it's worth, I'd rather have the K-m's interface than the K200D's, because the buttons in the 4-way pad on the back function as direct buttons whereas on the K200D as far as I know they only navigate menus. Either way, I'd still much rather have a stripped-down (but still mostly button-driven w/ two wheels) version of the K20D's interface, the sealing, the K20D's full customisation options, the Samsung 14mp sensor, in a K-m sized body, than the K20D as it is. I wouldn't expect to pay K-m level prices for it, of course.
01-12-2009, 03:09 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
For what it's worth, I'd rather have the K-m's interface than the K200D's, because the buttons in the 4-way pad on the back function as direct buttons whereas on the K200D as far as I know they only navigate menus.
The problem there is you've now just disabled your AF point selection ability.

01-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Seamius, what's wrong with wishing for K20D functionality in a smaller (K-m) form factor? For what it's worth, I'd rather have the K-m's interface than the K200D's, because the buttons in the 4-way pad on the back function as direct buttons whereas on the K200D as far as I know they only navigate menus. Either way, I'd still much rather have a stripped-down (but still mostly button-driven w/ two wheels) version of the K20D's interface, the sealing, the K20D's full customisation options, the Samsung 14mp sensor, in a K-m sized body, than the K20D as it is. I wouldn't expect to pay K-m level prices for it, of course.
nothing wrong with it. however that's not exactly what the others had in mind in regards to the k-m. I agree that the small form factor would be great especially if they implemented it across the entire line. however this could pose a problem if Pentax ever decided to go with a bigger format than APS-C. it would also make such a small camera very heavy with all that is added to it and then you would get just about everybody complaining that its too heavy for its size.
01-12-2009, 03:12 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Seamius, what's wrong with wishing for K20D functionality in a smaller (K-m) form factor? For what it's worth, I'd rather have the K-m's interface than the K200D's, because the buttons in the 4-way pad on the back function as direct buttons whereas on the K200D as far as I know they only navigate menus. Either way, I'd still much rather have a stripped-down (but still mostly button-driven w/ two wheels) version of the K20D's interface, the sealing, the K20D's full customisation options, the Samsung 14mp sensor, in a K-m sized body, than the K20D as it is. I wouldn't expect to pay K-m level prices for it, of course.
This is my exact point. The general theme is "big is pro, small is noob." Sadly that is a vicious cycle propagated by the populace and the manufacturers. I just don't buy it though. And neither do a lot of other people who are serious about shooting. Pentax already is bucking the trend by building small primes. Why not follow that up with a small serious camera? Km size, interface more like K20d, and weather sealed. I'd pay $1K for that rather than $0.5K for the existing Km.
01-12-2009, 03:17 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
This is my exact point. The general theme is "big is pro, small is noob." Sadly that is a vicious cycle propagated by the populace and the manufacturers. I just don't buy it though. And neither do a lot of other people who are serious about shooting. Pentax already is bucking the trend by building small primes. Why not follow that up with a small serious camera? Km size, interface more like K20d, and weather sealed. I'd pay $1K for that rather than $0.5K for the existing Km.
it makes good sense. if the entire line was that way. however a slightly upgraded k-m does not, in my eyes.
01-12-2009, 03:28 PM   #53
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Buying direct from Pentax plus the fees to your door or shop around ?

I wonder how many people pay suggested retail from Pentax USA?


K20D is $743 delivered:

Pentax | K20D SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 19381 | B&H

K200D is $503 delivered:

Pentax | K200D SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 19541 | B&H







QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
this is also the street price. Pentax does not share the same pricing scheme I assure you.

Pentax USA currently has the K20 body listed at 999.95 and the K200 body at 599.95. that's clearly double the street price difference, and I think accurately reflects the differences between the two models.


01-12-2009, 03:38 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I wonder how many people pay suggested retail from Pentax USA?


K20D is $743 delivered:

Pentax | K20D SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 19381 | B&H

K200D is $503 delivered:

Pentax | K200D SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 19541 | B&H
who pays what from whom is irrelevant to my point. my point is that Pentax priced the two bodies accordingly and this is the price that should be used to judge the differences in the two bodies. just because B&H can sell them at about 200 dollars difference doesn't mean that Pentax should price them that way or that it is an accurate reflection of the differences between models.
01-12-2009, 04:11 PM   #55
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It's an accurate reflection that the 20D wa sover priced.
01-12-2009, 04:30 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
It's an accurate reflection that the 20D wa sover priced.

compared to what? the K20 was under priced given what it offers. (and compared to other offerings in the same bracket from the other makers.) you cant possibly say the K20 was overpriced because of the price of the K200. if anything that only means the K200 was over priced. and given what it offers I don't think it is.
01-12-2009, 04:42 PM   #57
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It seems to me that the K20d's price has been adjusted correctly according to the competition. I bought it when it first came out, and at the time it was a fair price (if not a bargain!) in light of what the other manufacturers had on offer.

Without a doubt, it has become a bargain!

Since the introduction of the K2000, there hasn't been much room to move for the middle child.

Last edited by Lazaruscomeout; 01-12-2009 at 04:48 PM. Reason: added "!" to "bargain" and emphasis to "become". I just want to be understood.
01-12-2009, 04:52 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
It's an accurate reflection that the 20D wa sover priced.
For gods sake don't call it 20D, there are other camera brand you know. Pentax will likely drop the "d" in future DSLR body names.

I happen to think the K20D is slightly underpriced at the moment. I think this is market over reaction to the the over priced list tag Pentax charged for K20D when it first came out.

The K20D shouldn't be priced that much more than K10D's initial price, which was $899 body only.

For the current price, I would suggest K20D/KM over the K200D, they have better price to performance ratio. K200D is also the soonest to get replaced so you body's depreciation rate is higher.
01-12-2009, 04:59 PM   #59
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In case you guys are not up to day with price, Canon 50d also is doing a very fast price dive from $1300 to under $1000 in 3 months.

People are simple not seeing that much resolution increment from 10mp to 15mp.

I think 14-15mp is pretty much the resolution limit for APS sensors. I predict anything high will compremise the high ISO performance. We saw this bottle neck when Point and Shoots (1/1.7" sensor) went pass the 6-10mp neighborhood.
01-12-2009, 07:32 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
In case you guys are not up to day with price, Canon 50d also is doing a very fast price dive from $1300 to under $1000 in 3 months.

People are simple not seeing that much resolution increment from 10mp to 15mp.

I think 14-15mp is pretty much the resolution limit for APS sensors. I predict anything high will compremise the high ISO performance. We saw this bottle neck when Point and Shoots (1/1.7" sensor) went pass the 6-10mp neighborhood.
Yes, this may 'technically' be so, but it doesn't stop them going for it :-)

I agree with you though, 'at the moment' we seem stuck around the 15mp limit, but as with CPU's (I remember them saying you can't get above 66Mhz because of the SWR on the copper links!) It will be overcome with some new fangled micro lense array or super quiet electricals, never say never, it always bites you in the bum :-).

Peter
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