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01-28-2009, 12:55 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
When would that happen?
Right now, the 3.5 years old 5D is 2000$.
The timing I had in mind was in the 2010-1012 range.

I bought my 5D (new with 2 years waranty) for 450 more than the K20D was at the time so... for now it's dependant on the occasion but since the much newer D700 is already in the 2000 range, this assesment seems reasonable.

01-28-2009, 01:01 PM   #92
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QuoteQuote:
The 5D is 12MP not 24, and besides I disagree. The D300 more or less matches it.....as I would expect.
That was my point, one way or the other, bigger sensor start with some advantage in the noise/resolution compromise.

As for the D300 matching the 5D output, the K20 has arguably a similar IQ (albeit it has a more "fell free to tune it yourself" approach to noise reduction) and is my only base for comparison (apart from the Ds, K10 and 30D I also used).

In my tests, the overall IQ oscar (noise, DR, details through the various ISO) went to the 5D although at ISO 100, the K20D surely matches it in all aspects. I doubt the D300 would have fared much better.
01-28-2009, 01:30 PM   #93
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2010-2012 sounds good to me, BUT...

Both Canon and Nikon are imposing serious price increases in Feb 2009. Alot of canon items are now out of stock at sellers I do biz with. ALL Likely to be in stock the moment new pricing hits. I have a strong feeling we'll need to toss out the great prices for equiptment bought in 2008&2007 and reset the prices equiptment costs in 2009 and beyond as long as Yen stays strong against all currencies. What if Yen remains strong past 2010, then equiptment will simply cost more including full frame dslrs.

We may be entering one of those eras where you bought an item new the past year at a very good price, then carefully use it for a 2-3 years and then you sell it used for more than you paid originally. This is great of you got it to use, BUT not so good if you're saving to buy items that then cost 20-25% more "overnight".




QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
The timing I had in mind was in the 2010-1012 range.

I bought my 5D (new with 2 years waranty) for 450 more than the K20D was at the time so... for now it's dependant on the occasion but since the much newer D700 is already in the 2000 range, this assesment seems reasonable.
01-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Both Canon and Nikon are imposing serious price increases in Feb 2009. Alot of canon items are now out of stock at sellers I do biz with. ALL Likely to be in stock the moment new pricing hits. I have a strong feeling we'll need to toss out the great prices for equiptment bought in 2008&2007 and reset the prices equiptment costs in 2009 and beyond as long as Yen stays strong against all currencies. What if Yen remains strong past 2010, then equiptment will simply cost more including full frame dslrs.

We may be entering one of those eras where you bought an item new the past year at a very good price, then carefully use it for a 2-3 years and then you sell it used for more than you paid originally. This is great of you got it to use, BUT not so good if you're saving to buy items that then cost 20-25% more "overnight".
Yeah, I seem to remember stuff shooting up in price in this manner in the 80s: really made a difference to a kid trying to get her start: the difference was enough to keep me in Canon FD when I was contemplating jumping ship cause I didn't like where they were going with the T70 type stuff and some of the lenses. (Even used Nikon glass was still pretty ridiculous, all the pros and would-be-pros wanted that stuff back then.) Really just felt that a lot of stuff got snatched out of reach, though.

Frankly, one way Pentax could take advantage of the situation would be targeting some stuff toward 'serious beginners' and startups, rather than making anything affordable kinda dumbed down as luxury items for 'consumers' in the way a lot of other brands seem to be.

Just the recent price plummet on these K20ds could in retrospect come to be seen to be a great public service to starving artists everywhere. These'd probably be a great camera to educate computer-savvy kids on, and the Kx00 series seem to be no slouch that way, lack of separate control wheels aside. I do think about that sort of thing, since I'm not always very able to *do,* what do those who cannot *do* ...do?

But, anyway, that perspective's one reason I hope Pentax sorta keeps a cheaper model available for the types who are serious students. I can't tell some kid to run out an by an AF-s Nikkor or whatever.

01-28-2009, 05:34 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Frankly, one way Pentax could take advantage of the situation would be targeting some stuff toward 'serious beginners' and startups, rather than making anything affordable kinda dumbed down as luxury items for 'consumers' in the way a lot of other brands seem to be.
Absolutely!!!! This IS the NICHE!
01-28-2009, 08:23 PM   #96
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Add Sigma to the list of manufacturers raising price in Feb 2009

Heres a press release for UK Sigma buyers. I said it before, I'll say it again. if there is something you want to buy, buy it or regret not doing so after the 1st of February 2009, unless paying maybe 40% more for same item is no big deal to you:


Sigma UK Press Release

Sigma increase prices due to the exchange rate.

Its a very long time since prices in the photo/imaging market increased. Cameras and lenses fell in price until they offered incredibly good value for money. In times of recession it seems counter-intuitive for prices to rise but thats exactly what is about to happen, mainly due to the currency fluctuations.

In December 2007, the exchange rate between the UK Pound and Japanese Yen was 235. The very weak pound and unusually strong Yen now means that the exchange rate has fallen to below 130 Yen, a devaluation of approximately 40%. Anybody who has recently been on holiday abroad will have noticed that the pound is very weak against the Euro, Dollar and Yen.

Our parent company, the Sigma Corporation, purchases raw materials in Yen and their overheads are therefore inextricably linked to the Yen and so they have been forced, in line with our competitors, to increase our supply price to reflect the exchange rate between the UK pound and the Japanese Yen. Our prices are therefore set to increase on 1st February 2009. Whilst our price increases reflect the international exchange rate movements we have made every effort, wherever possible, to absorb the price rises and minimise extra expense to the customer. Sigma, in line with our competitors, are constantly monitoring the currency market and our prices are directly influenced by exchange rates. We hope that the UK pound makes a recovery against foreign currencies however it is not altogether impossible that further price increases may be forced upon us all.

As retailers strive to beat the price increase deadline, we have seen tremendous growth in sales in January and as a result our warehouse is very low on stock. Whilst the prices of Sigma products will increase on 1st February, it may be possible for customers to purchase from their local retailers at the original prices for a limited period as long as stocks last.

Whilst these price rises are regrettable it is important to note that, as all our competitors are increasing prices to a similar degree, we still retain our reputation for offering top quality products and excellent value for money.


QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Both Canon and Nikon are imposing serious price increases in Feb 2009. Alot of canon items are now out of stock at sellers I do biz with. ALL Likely to be in stock the moment new pricing hits. I have a strong feeling we'll need to toss out the great prices for equiptment bought in 2008&2007 and reset the prices equiptment costs in 2009 and beyond as long as Yen stays strong against all currencies. What if Yen remains strong past 2010, then equiptment will simply cost more including full frame dslrs.

We may be entering one of those eras where you bought an item new the past year at a very good price, then carefully use it for a 2-3 years and then you sell it used for more than you paid originally. This is great of you got it to use, BUT not so good if you're saving to buy items that then cost 20-25% more "overnight".
01-28-2009, 08:39 PM   #97
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Sigma wholesale price increases have already occured here... Sigma wholesale has gone up as much as 20%+ in Australia.. As has Canon, Nikon and Tokina that I know of.. The Yen to $ differences effect Pentax and Olympus too so they will follow suit soon enough..
01-29-2009, 01:00 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
Sigma wholesale price increases have already occured here... Sigma wholesale has gone up as much as 20%+ in Australia.. As has Canon, Nikon and Tokina that I know of.. The Yen to $ differences effect Pentax and Olympus too so they will follow suit soon enough..
I just looked at some large retailer online prices for Pentax lenses and the DA* stuff have already registered a 100 price increase compared to what they were last week...

01-29-2009, 03:30 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Both Canon and Nikon are imposing serious price increases in Feb 2009. Alot of canon items are now out of stock at sellers I do biz with. ALL Likely to be in stock the moment new pricing hits. I have a strong feeling we'll need to toss out the great prices for equiptment bought in 2008&2007 and reset the prices equiptment costs in 2009 and beyond as long as Yen stays strong against all currencies. What if Yen remains strong past 2010, then equiptment will simply cost more including full frame dslrs.
Yes but price increase will affect APS-C and FF in the same way, that won't affect the price differential reduction between the two format.
01-29-2009, 08:12 AM   #100
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True

Indeed , everything equiptment wise is going up. First party , third party, full frame, aps-c format. If there is anything from anyone you need then buy it now or regret it in a few days. I read on this forum in another thread pentax gear in Sweeden is already up 50%. So the time to act may have already past for some countries. USA got the Sigma 10% increase before Christmas. As the Sigma UK notice says the price rise may not be the only one from them.

QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Yes but price increase will affect APS-C and FF in the same way, that won't affect the price differential reduction between the two format.
01-29-2009, 08:39 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Indeed , everything equiptment wise is going up. First party , third party, full frame, aps-c format. If there is anything from anyone you need then buy it now or regret it in a few days. I read on this forum in another thread pentax gear in Sweeden is already up 50%. So the time to act may have already past for some countries. USA got the Sigma 10% increase before Christmas. As the Sigma UK notice says the price rise may not be the only one from them.
I heard the price increase for APS-C was cropped.
01-29-2009, 09:00 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
I heard the price increase for APS-C was cropped.
Does that mean it's 2/3 of the FF's increase, or 1.5x ?
01-29-2009, 09:03 AM   #103
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I suppose thats what it means

Good Point!

I read the price for 50-135 f2.8 SDM went from 1,000 to 1,500 in Sweden. So theres an exact example of the crop factor extending the cost by 1.5x.


QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
I heard the price increase for APS-C was cropped.
01-29-2009, 11:46 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
Does that mean it's 2/3 of the FF's increase, or 1.5x ?
...don't know, but Olympus is planning a 4/3 price increase
01-29-2009, 07:25 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Indeed , everything equiptment wise is going up. First party , third party, full frame, aps-c format. If there is anything from anyone you need then buy it now or regret it in a few days. I read on this forum in another thread pentax gear in Sweeden is already up 50%. So the time to act may have already past for some countries. USA got the Sigma 10% increase before Christmas. As the Sigma UK notice says the price rise may not be the only one from them.
I have to say Samsungian, your statement here was the final straw. I looked around and things indeed were going up. Even the K20 is more expensive now at prodigital2000, yet, the A900 was still the same price at the Sony store (for now). In fact, after explaining to the manager I was considering switching from a competing brand he took down my list of wants, tapped a few keys and knocked the price on everything down more than 10%. Thats huge in camera margin terms. I bought everything. Won't hear me whingeing about FF anymore on here

K.
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