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01-29-2009, 09:09 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
Apparently the default JPEG settings are different. There are also rumours that the Leica-branded cameras receive the lenses that "test" the best in QA, while the Panasonic gets those that are "lower quality".

BTW, the Leica is roughly twice the price of the Panasonic in Canada as well.
I am sure this is likely coming out of the leica camp. I am sure they hate their camera is being called a Panasonic.

01-29-2009, 09:47 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline;46883

Have you read the threads? I could care less what Ned uses, but why blog and praise this Panasonic on ''HIS'', the ''PRESIDENT'' of Pentax imaging website? ''ESPECIALLY'' when Pentax just came out with Two new models? Incase you did not know this, Panasonic also came out with a slew of new models of which they compete directly with Pentax.... [url=http://www.dpreview.com/:
Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ[/url] Even if this Leisonic does not have a pentax counterpart, people will assume that if the ''PRESIDENT'' of Pentax uses a Leiasonic, then they are better than Pentax.

If I where in charge of Panasonic marketing, I would direct people over to neds site.
I really think you overestimate some things, 'Pentax USA' doesn't even make the cameras, just sells them. The only people who are going to go to some guy's personal blog and know the Leica/Panasonic connection, never mind the name Pentax, aren't going to be uninformed enough to be thinking in those kinds of simplistic terms, anyway. Certainly not the point and shoot market. Or the bigger-sensor point and shoot market, for that matter.

The whole thrust of Pentax marketing has really been toward the informed image-maker, not some kind of blind 'loyalty.'

Frankly, looking at the overall picture among the smaller brands, I actually do suspect there's a reshuffling in progress. Leica's been in a bit of trouble for a while, and the Four-Thirds affiliation hasn't served them very well. I could see some new affiliations under the Hoya company: Pentax does SLRs, anyway, ...maybe Lumix and Olympus (My little theory wouldn't be sure how Olympus and Samsung and Lumix really fit in) as part of the whole thing making EVF cameras, or going their own way... with Leica as the premium brand of all of em, (Maybe that big Leica that just came out is the premium version of a to-be-released-sometime Pentax 'medium format' digital system, even.)

Anyway, I'm not leaping to assume that this is some kind of incompetence or disloyalty, or even that there's more to it at all than a guy saying, 'Hey, we're photographers, too.'
01-29-2009, 10:24 AM   #78
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well, we will just have to agree to disagree. I am coming at it from a business owners point of view, so I will see thing differently than many others. That being said, I am logging off this thread.
01-29-2009, 10:38 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Probably the glass in the very least.
do not mix selling glass to Leica (however Leica might be buying from Germany) and having a stake in the company

01-29-2009, 10:48 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boucicaut Quote
Why would do you want that kind of cars? Huge emissions and built just for having fun with very little practical value. Sports cars...the dumbest thing ever after jet skis.

Sorry to be boring but IMO there is no place for those anymore. Perhaps we'll soon get tighter emissions regulations everywhere so that this problem is taken care of.

/end extreme OT
Not for the street, for the track. I used to club race an old ('79) Porsche until I ran out of money The GT-3RS is a track-ready street-legal car that would be a serious hoot at Laguna Seca or any decent track for that matter.

Don't play the environment card. The number of "high polluting" cars on the road is incredibly small. I live in CA which has extremely stringent AQ laws. And still my car passed emissions. Don't be fooled - much of that nonsense has much more to do with politics than with the realities. That said I do worry about these things as I grew up in SoCal when it wasn't so nice. I know that emissions standards are important, and in fact 90% of my travel is by motorcycle or bicycle.
01-29-2009, 10:52 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
The only difference is the little red dot.
Actually that isn't quite right.

The body style and construction is different - the cameras feel different in your hand.

Bundled software is different (Capture One with the Leica, SilkPix I believe with the Panny)

Warranty is 3 years for the Leica, 1 year parts/90 day service with Panny

The firmwares are slightly different but how different is up for discussion. As for lens qc, I doubt that story. But there are very real difference between the two. Whether or not they are worth the extra money is up to the individual. Most would likely say "no" but it depends on what is important to you and how you determine "value."
01-29-2009, 11:48 AM   #82
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Some of you guys are taking this WAYYYYY to serious... I've seen some great opnions from some people and some other very biased and unilateral posts as well... And honestly I just hope this thread stays among us and no one outside reads it... because not only we have the best lenses out there, but we are, at least i believe, a very open-minded community... and this thread goes all against it.
01-29-2009, 11:52 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Leica's been in a bit of trouble for a while, and the Four-Thirds affiliation hasn't served them very well. I could see some new affiliations under the Hoya company: Pentax does SLRs, [...] with Leica as the premium brand of all of em
Just a few words about Leica here.

Leica (from Leitz Camera) is a big name compared to the current, actual, comany, called Leica Camera AG. There are many other Leica companies around now which I am not talking about here. So, in the following, I use Leica as a synonym to Leica Camera AG.

Leica has a turnover of about 100 million only and about 1000 employees. It used to be somewhat larger. What is interesting however, is who owns Leica:

Dr. Andreas Kaufmann (54). He made some money in Stuttgart (he started his career as a school teacher, later co-founded some companies and became member of Leica's supervisory board). Kaufmann is Leica enthusiast, we would say, Leicaxian With the help of his brothers (together, they are SOCRATES Privatstiftung in Vienna, Austria), he founded ACM Projektentwicklung GmbH in Salzburg, Austria. ACM then bought all Leica stock (2006 to 2007) and Andreas Kaufmann is now 96% owner of Leica.

Initially, he tried the "American way of management" and hired Steven K. Lee (former position: Best Buy Co., Inc. Minnesota) as CEO. This failed because too much value was destroyed. Now, he acts himself as Leica's CEO and opts for longer-term strategies and a withdrawel from the stock market (and its short-term consequences). He now wants to succeed with both, agile management immediately reacting to market forces, and long-term quality creation "made in Germany" paired with engineering excellence this region in Germany is famous for.

Those guys feel quite strong now and have a vision. Their Leica S shows it. Looking at their range of products (high end compact with Panasonic, rangefinders, Leica S, announced full frame Leica-R) and their size (they are tiny compared to Pentax) I can only say that their real capital must be human resources.

Given all this background, I have a hard time to see how a camera maker with an agile management full of ideas could cooperate with a Japanese camera maker who has severe problems to listen. On the other hand, Panasonic (Matsushita) is Japanese, too.

01-29-2009, 12:52 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Not for the street, for the track. I used to club race an old ('79) Porsche until I ran out of money The GT-3RS is a track-ready street-legal car that would be a serious hoot at Laguna Seca or any decent track for that matter.

Don't play the environment card. The number of "high polluting" cars on the road is incredibly small. I live in CA which has extremely stringent AQ laws. And still my car passed emissions. Don't be fooled - much of that nonsense has much more to do with politics than with the realities. That said I do worry about these things as I grew up in SoCal when it wasn't so nice. I know that emissions standards are important, and in fact 90% of my travel is by motorcycle or bicycle.
Agreed.


-------------------------------

My car (98 Accord 4cyl) is a certified Low Emissions Vehicle. My mom's 05 CRV is an UltraLEV. The 98-02 Accord was offered in LEV and also ULEV forms and was LEV before LEV was cool.

People always say "emissions for street cars are needed" but what about industry? What about trucks that never drive on the street (like those massive quarry dump trucks)? Airplanes? Ships? What about catalytic-less race cars that get 4MPG running at 10,000rpm?

There are bigger polluters out there than commuter vehicles.

My city is full of hippies and left-wingers...I see a Prius every 30 seconds or less. Cars don't last 20 years up here with all the salt. This isn't Cali where pristine 1960s car are driven 365 days a year...

Edit: Hell even in Cali, cars older than 1976 (I think that's right) are exempt from emissions testing. That's right...pre-OBD, pre-catalytic, pre-emissions controlled cars aren't tested. Riddle me that...
01-29-2009, 12:55 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
do not mix selling glass to Leica (however Leica might be buying from Germany) and having a stake in the company
I did not intend to imply that at all. I was only referring to the sale of glass blanks to Leica. In other words, Leica is probably a customer of Hoya.

Edit: If that is the case, then Leica/Panasonic are not financially isolated from Pentax. In other words, Leica sales would boost the sale of blank glass by Hoya.
01-29-2009, 01:09 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Not for the street, for the track. I used to club race an old ('79) Porsche until I ran out of money The GT-3RS is a track-ready street-legal car that would be a serious hoot at Laguna Seca or any decent track for that matter.

Don't play the environment card. The number of "high polluting" cars on the road is incredibly small. I live in CA which has extremely stringent AQ laws. And still my car passed emissions. Don't be fooled - much of that nonsense has much more to do with politics than with the realities. That said I do worry about these things as I grew up in SoCal when it wasn't so nice. I know that emissions standards are important, and in fact 90% of my travel is by motorcycle or bicycle.
Good post Nostatic. I remember when I lived in SoCal, I was going to update an '82 carbed V8 which passed inspection/emissions in the stock configuration. I wanted to update it using an aftermarket state of the art fuel injection systems which would have improved fuel efficiency AND reduced emissions. Howeve, doing so would have made it fail emissions under the California guidelines because it would have failed the inspection for not having the original equipment. That is a good example of politics and bureaucracy at its finest.

QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
Agreed.


-------------------------------

. . .

Edit: Hell even in Cali, cars older than 1976 (I think that's right) are exempt from emissions testing. That's right...pre-OBD, pre-catalytic, pre-emissions controlled cars aren't tested. Riddle me that...
I know when I lived in SoCal, the exempt vehicles on the road accounted for less than 5% of the vehicles registered so even that can be mis-leading and some of those have been updated with fuel injection etc.


Now, back to the regularly scheduled lynching . . .

Last edited by Blue; 02-03-2009 at 01:19 PM. Reason: typo
01-29-2009, 01:43 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I was only referring to the sale of glass blanks to Leica. In other words, Leica is probably a customer of Hoya.
Leica used to be a manufacturer of raw glass and polished pressed lenses. This business was sold to Corning around 1990.

Today, rumors are that Leica gets its raw glass (for sperically and aspherically grinded lenses) from various suppliers, probably from Germany, and polished pressed lenses from Hoya.

BTW, raw glass isn't cheap: 1 kg is about 1 k$.
01-29-2009, 01:50 PM   #88
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Feed the rumor mill

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Leica used to be a manufacturer of raw glass and polished pressed lenses. This business was sold to Corning around 1990.

Today, rumors are that Leica gets its raw glass (for sperically and aspherically grinded lenses) from various suppliers, probably from Germany, and polished pressed lenses from Hoya.

BTW, raw glass isn't cheap: 1 kg is about 1 k$.
So the only reason Ned still has his job is because Hoya makes the lens(parts)
01-29-2009, 03:01 PM   #89
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Well, Falconeye, it's certainly good to hear Leica's getting their stuff together, one way or another, I hated to hear of a company with such heritage having such a hard time. My own speculations are just me playing a guessing game based on what various companies are coming out with,

Does seem they at least, have given up on the 4/3rds venture, and I'm pretty sure I recall seeing the Leica name coming off lenses on Lumixes. Does Leica still have some call to share patents and R&D with some bigger company? Seems likely, to me. That S-system looks awesome, but I wonder if it, all on its own, is really profitable, or there need to be some returns from a more popular use of the tech in there. Just in general, I can see some pretty natural alliances forming, considering the different sectors of the market the companies-other-than-Nikon-or-Canon seem to be breaking for.

In tight times, such an alliance might just be the best thing for any and all involved. Competition can, of course, end up being pretty destructive... say most of the smaller companies have the different technologies and capacities among them that together, they can put together a whole bunch of different products that actually can compete in their areas with Canon and Nikon, ...that's better than the little guys 'bumping each other off' and other strange metaphors.

(Have to say, I found the Micro Four Thirds concept... Something that might be very interesting in the future, but it seems to inspire among its advocates a tendency to glower darkly and obsessively speak rather shrilly about various forms of *doom.* )
01-29-2009, 04:06 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fototim Quote
Cough.
Then you should probably edit your signature
Yeah, I've been trying to sell them.
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