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01-29-2009, 04:50 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by BBear Quote
Some of you guys are taking this WAYYYYY to serious... I've seen some great opnions from some people and some other very biased and unilateral posts as well... And honestly I just hope this thread stays among us and no one outside reads it... because not only we have the best lenses out there, but we are, at least i believe, a very open-minded community... and this thread goes all against it.
I agree with you completely. Anyone on the web can read this thread and the others like it, which will inevitably do far more to harm Pentax than Bunnell's initial post.

But be careful showing such perspective; there are those who do not like it and might very well attack you personally for stating something obvious but contrary to their world view. For that reason I am not subscribing to this thread; they will have to get their jollies elsewhere.

01-29-2009, 08:29 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
I agree with you completely. Anyone on the web can read this thread and the others like it, which will inevitably do far more to harm Pentax than Bunnell's initial post.

But be careful showing such perspective; there are those who do not like it and might very well attack you personally for stating something obvious but contrary to their world view. For that reason I am not subscribing to this thread; they will have to get their jollies elsewhere.
So, as the devils advocate, I suppose it's completely fine for Ned to test a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III with a Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 USM L mounted since there both in a "category" that doesn't compete w/ Pentax.... now (or in the future????). I REALLY believe he'd lose his job if he did that, right or wrong. Actually I'm not quite sure why he didn't over what he did. Certainly is not the Japanese way. I challenge any of you to find ONE instance of someone else doing something like this. I'm not saying it's wrong but for some unknown reason it seem to go against COMMOM sense......
The fact that what he did is so "anti-corporate" that it will do little damage (too bizarre to be considered real) at least not any more then the FF/BF, /exposure/ turtle focus/ banding/ pattern noise / dud lens / delayed lenses/ ect/ internet "scuttlebutt" did.........
Oh and his JOB is to sell, market, service, and promote Pentax, not another brand. If he wants to do that then go and become an independent whatever and hype whatever.... sorry just goes w/ the job, like it or not.........
It's not like Pentax is cruising on glory and can afford a little loose talk...... One man will not change my choice of products either, no matter what stupid things they say ....
You know if someone were to ask him "do you use any other cameras" and he would reply "Oh I just bought a little Leica and it takes very nice pictures".... fine no problems.... but a full page web AD ?????? I really fail to see how anyone can't see the irony in all this.
Oh and to top it off I'll be over here chatting at the Leica forum, Pentax doesn't need me 24/7. Were just fine thank you, recession and all....

Last edited by jeffkrol; 01-29-2009 at 09:02 PM.
01-29-2009, 09:31 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
So, as the devils advocate, I suppose it's completely fine for Ned to test a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III with a Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 USM L mounted since there both in a "category" that doesn't compete w/ Pentax.... now (or in the future????). I REALLY believe he'd lose his job if he did that, right or wrong. Actually I'm not quite sure why he didn't over what he did.
This is a bogus analogy. The 1Ds is part of the Canon DSLR system, and that system is in competition with the Pentax DSLR system. I'm sure Pentax would like to convince serious photographers to try a K20D with a DA*55 instead of the Canon combo you mention, regardless of what we might think of that matchup.

The Leica is an $800+ point-and-shoot, with no comparable Pentax alternative, and no buy-in to a competitor's system. I don't think it's so much that the competition cares about this, it seems that it's Pentax DSLR owners who have their panties all in a bunch. More than one poster has suggested that Ned's purchase of his new Leica is somehow responsible for the lack of Pentax marketing and development - now that's what I call hyperbole!
01-30-2009, 03:36 AM   #94
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Some people have no concept what a person blog is. It's basically an online diary. It's no different from a post you make on a forum, except in this case he used his real name.

Its not a god damn press release!

01-30-2009, 04:25 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
Some people have no concept what a person blog is. It's basically an online diary. It's no different from a post you make on a forum, except in this case he used his real name.

Its not a god damn press release!
No, it's the thoughts and musings of 'the President of Pentax Imaging (USA)'. In fact he states this first on his blog page before saying he's an avid photographer.

Basically, what he's done is say that another competitor's product is so significatly better than his own, that he's spend Pentax paycheck money on it, that doesn't look good for him or his company, simple.

Don't start with all the different market balony, they both make cameras.
01-30-2009, 04:49 AM   #96
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To state the obvious:

I think one of the reasons we see this differently is because of cultural differences.

In some countries you are free to do basically whatever you want on your free time. This is why it is called free time, freedom A company trying to fire somebody because of something like this, could end up facing a massive law suit. In other countries you are basically owned by your employer.

I think this thread is a endless debate. But, I believe some of the reactions here is easier to understand, with these differences in the back of the head.
So how about trying to understand each other, instead of throwing bricks? (I know, a stupid question, it is much more fun throwing bricks )
01-30-2009, 06:28 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by NewRsoul Quote
No, it's the thoughts and musings of 'the President of Pentax Imaging (USA)'. In fact he states this first on his blog page before saying he's an avid photographer.

Basically, what he's done is say that another competitor's product is so significatly better than his own, that he's spend Pentax paycheck money on it, that doesn't look good for him or his company, simple.

Don't start with all the different market balony, they both make cameras.
1. It doesn't compete with any Pentax product.
2. If it does, you damn right LX3 is significantly better than any Pentax P&S. Are you so thick to realize that?
01-30-2009, 06:43 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
1. It doesn't compete with any Pentax product.
2. If it does, you damn right LX3 is significantly better than any Pentax P&S. Are you so thick to realize that?
You seem such an angry person, most of your posts seem full of Angst, like a hormonal teenager, I don't know if that's ‘you way’, but as I've said to you before, there’s no need for personal insults. No I'm not 'thick'.

The product (LX3/Dlux4) competes with Pentax, it is a pocketable digital camera, granted as I said, maybe higher specification/price, but still a digital camera from a competitor that Pentax could do without it's own president recommending.

01-30-2009, 06:50 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by NewRsoul Quote
You seem such an angry person, most of your posts seem full of Angst, like a hormonal teenager, I don't know if that's ‘you way’, but as I've said to you before, there’s no need for personal insults. No I'm not 'thick'.

The product (LX3/Dlux4) competes with Pentax, it is a pocketable digital camera, granted as I said, maybe higher specification/price, but still a digital camera from a competitor that Pentax could do without it's own president recommending.
I am not an angry person, but the other non photography forums I hang out with tend to be younger and like to engage in debates, just to give you an idea.


So does a Honda Civic competes with a Lexus IS300 (to keep them in the same size) or BMW 1 series? By your logic they compete in the same segment. Can you find a real life person that cross shop these vehicles?
01-30-2009, 07:21 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
So does a Honda Civic competes with a Lexus IS300 (to keep them in the same size) or BMW 1 series? By your logic they compete in the same segment. Can you find a real life person that cross shop these vehicles?
I can't see the relevance of this example, between a cheap impulse £100/200 purchase and a £10000/20000 purchase, but, ok. Can you imagine the MD of Honda buying a £20000 Lexus and writing on his blog about how good it is? No, which was/is my point.
01-30-2009, 08:14 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
Some people have no concept what a person blog is. It's basically an online diary. It's no different from a post you make on a forum, except in this case he used his real name.

Its not a god damn press release!
I believe "the blog' is also being used as a marketing tool (or a perception of a marketing tool exists at least in this case). This isn't just you or I or Ken Rockwell waxing poetic about our coffee flavor of the day. I would have thought this was obvious but I guess I'm wrong..
does it destroy Pentax.. no does it hurt Neds perception of honesty..no but it's, at best, just a goofy thing for a head honcho of a corp to do....Personally it just showed a lack of forethought at best, lack of judgement at worst.. and bottom line just dumb.
Like my last fantasy quote
"Oh and to top it off I'll be over here chatting at the Leica forum, Pentax doesn't need me 24/7. Were just fine thank you, recession and all..."
dumb.............
01-30-2009, 08:41 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fototim Quote

I think this thread is a endless debate. But, I believe some of the reactions here is easier to understand, with these differences in the back of the head.
So how about trying to understand each other, instead of throwing bricks? (I know, a stupid question, it is much more fun throwing bricks )
I don't know, it certainly has been going around in circles. I think maybe everyone would be happy if the 'Company loyalty' camp set a good example and limited their point and shoot purchases to what Pentax produces, and if there's nothing in the category, pretend the category doesn't exist. That'll show Mr. Burnnell.

I really do have trouble seeing a consumer being cheesed off at this. It doesn't do us any good if the guy's out of touch, or if he wants to plug Pentax products, if it's that much easier to dismiss as it being his *job* to say the new Pentaxes are wonderful and perfect whatever the situation may be.

Frankly, I think that if it's not a prelude to the announcement of some collaboration with Leica, it just shows the guy's in touch with a lot of the people Pentax sells DSLRs to. The advertising really is aimed to a degree at nonconformists, or self-styled ones, anyway.
01-30-2009, 08:54 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I don't know, it certainly has been going around in circles. I think maybe everyone would be happy if the 'Company loyalty' camp set a good example and limited their point and shoot purchases to what Pentax produces, and if there's nothing in the category, pretend the category doesn't exist. That'll show Mr. Burnnell.

I really do have trouble seeing a consumer being cheesed off at this. It doesn't do us any good if the guy's out of touch, or if he wants to plug Pentax products, if it's that much easier to dismiss as it being his *job* to say the new Pentaxes are wonderful and perfect whatever the situation may be.

Frankly, I think that if it's not a prelude to the announcement of some collaboration with Leica, it just shows the guy's in touch with a lot of the people Pentax sells DSLRs to. The advertising really is aimed to a degree at nonconformists, or self-styled ones, anyway.
Its not about being cheesed off. I remember when Minolta closed its doors a couple of years ago. Sony subsequently bought the plant and hired back many if not most of the engineers etc. But the Minolta name disappeared except for vintage gear. Some of us don't want to see that happen to Pentax. One has to be pretty naive to think that this kind of thing doesn't have the potential to effect things especially when it comes to recruiting new Pentax enthusiasts. Perhaps the post in the Leica Talk will draw over some Leica guys to the dSLR etc.
01-30-2009, 09:40 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by NewRsoul Quote
I can't see the relevance of this example, between a cheap impulse £100/200 purchase and a £10000/20000 purchase, but, ok. Can you imagine the MD of Honda buying a £20000 Lexus and writing on his blog about how good it is? No, which was/is my point.
Well Honda has product offering in most of the Lexus lineup. But if MD of Honda wants to buy a Jeep Wrangler or even a Toyota Landcruiser I wouldn't have any problem with it. I am a Honda owner btw.

And one more thing, you are putting way too much emphasis on the "Head of Pentax USA". The "head" of Pentax of any country except Japan is nothing but a sales position. You really think his opinion will steer the future of Pentax products lineup in a different direction? Come on, get real here.
01-30-2009, 09:56 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Its not about being cheesed off. I remember when Minolta closed its doors a couple of years ago. Sony subsequently bought the plant and hired back many if not most of the engineers etc. But the Minolta name disappeared except for vintage gear. Some of us don't want to see that happen to Pentax. One has to be pretty naive to think that this kind of thing doesn't have the potential to effect things especially when it comes to recruiting new Pentax enthusiasts. Perhaps the post in the Leica Talk will draw over some Leica guys to the dSLR etc.

Hrm, well, I don't particularly see the *name* going away, ...it certainly doesn't do me any good for, say, people to be panicking over Pentax not making competition for Micro Four Thirds when there's a DSLR about the size of an ME Super and DA Limiteds there. I saw one blog saying something to the effect of 'Pentax guy gets some street cred.' Maybe the buzz will lead a bunch of people who'd turned up their noses to actually pick up a Pentax, and see what there is about em.

But, yeah, even people looking for fodder for flamewars could be asking about Pentax in what's left of the retail world. Cheaper than payola. I would be willing to bet that what's between releases of new models and them being announced has to do with getting production together, ...I don't think they can afford another QC debacle like with the 16-50s. No one really knows what the economy's going to do, consumer confidence, not to mention cashflow, isn't the best right now, and with the recent Hoya thing, I think they need to be sure the next thing is a well-timed win.

In terms of company direction, well, I see some almost trollish agitating for things like EVF near-SLRs (from the company named after the pentaprism, no less) whole full-frame systems, (Hey, I'm all for that, eventually, ...it'd mean more full-frame lenses for film) but I'm not in that market at this point) and a general sense people are trying to scare folks off the brand. It's kind of a drawback of this relative silence from Pentax about what they're doing next, I suppose.

I mean, I'm here for the DSLRs, and the fact that these are a little different from the results of megapixel-and-features races that people kind of competitively geek out about like it was a video game console.

I mean, the K20d is kind of a consolidation of the kind of tech I couldn't afford before all this time, and someone finally sprung for the O-rings and a two dollar PC terminal. One thing that'd kept me *out* of other brands was that more and more of the basics one used to take for granted just seemed to be taken away from more-affordable-but-still-more-than-I-ever-spent-on-a-piece-of-kit-in-my life 'entry level' and 'prosumer' models.

I mean, if I'd been an EOS shooter, I'd have been a little cheesed off that I waited so long for the 5d to be updated, and then when they did, they compromised the image quality to make the thing double as a really lame video camera.

I don't mind Pentax being a bit conservative about some things... So, the live view isn't impressive. Big whoop: as long as they didn't dim the finder over it, great. It's not even enabled on mine.

I'd rather, in most ways, that they took their time with the next model, rather than coming out with something that was rushed into the market with a deal-killing drawback, just to have a feature to strut around with. Stuff like that you have to live with long after the Internet buzz has moved on to the next thing.
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