sleeping dogs lie, not a chance Ned

jeffkrol · 01-27-2009, 08:08 AM

Now all behave.... this is actually an important matter (well kind of) and interesting to see it evolve a bit.. It's really not over...
Pentax boss openly praises Leica D-Lux 4 on blog

Any advertising is good advertising....
Still not convinced it was a smart move and it is definitely NOT japanese....

Blue · 01-27-2009, 10:12 AM

There's a lot of talk on other forums etc. but I don't see anything that has not been discussed in the other 2 threads other than the fact the Photography press thought it was news and praised Ned for his Blog.

Edit: It could turn out to be a stroke of genius on Ned's part and he may set a new trend in review styles and delivery.

Edit: Edit: But then again, why did he post it in the Leica Talk forum and DPreview?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=30771713

Actual Post from Leica Talk:

Quote:

Greetings,

This being my first post in Leica talk, I'd like to introduce myself. I've been wanting a compact camera that offers high-quality images and manual controls for quite some time.
Thanks to this forum and members like Jim Radcliffe, who has some great galleries of photos, I bought the D-Lux 4 last week and immediately left for Tokyo on a business trip. If anyone is interested, I posted my first D-Lux photos on my blog...
http://nedbunnell.blogspot.com/... ...after-42-yrs-new-leica-added-to-my.html

I'm pretty active over on the Pentax SLR Talk forum, but will probably be spending more time here, as I need to come up to speed on using my new "red-dot" compact :-)
Cheers,
Ned

NewRsoul · 01-27-2009, 10:38 AM

Looks like he's back pedalling to me! I'd suggest that he just didn't think it would cause so much of a rumpus. I believe he took it to a 'business meeting' in Japan, wonder if it was an interview for a job with Panasonic :-)

redpigeons · 01-27-2009, 10:58 AM

Sorry for my ignorance I am just curious about what is going on?

Basically the boss of Pentax usa said that he is shooting with a leica P&S?

in my head (and I am not an expert) I 've always compered leica and Pentax glass
and the leica+Panasonic to Pentax+sumsung

Panasonic have some of the best P&S around

I would love to see a sumsung+pentax great great P&S maybe one with a Dslr sensor something like the sigma DP-1 or the D-lux 4

something that pro photogarohers can take in their pockets as backup

rburgoss · 01-27-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Blue

My First Post on Leica Talk: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Actual Post from Leica Talk:

This short but simple words by Ned Bunnell will mean inmediate dismissal or at least, impeachment by the board of shareholders if he was hired by some other big company. It is like some CEO from General Motors all of a sudden buys a BMW and openly tells the BMW guys who he is and who he works for.

It makes me remember some wise words that I can't remember from whom I heard: "There is never a second chance to make a first impression....." I can just see the guys from every other camera manufacturer, talking about how Pentax is going down the tubes that even its president for US operations is rapidly swithching brands.

jeffkrol · 01-27-2009, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Blue

There's a lot of talk on other forums etc. but I don't see anything that has not been discussed in the other 2 threads other than the fact the Photography press thought it was news and praised Ned for his Blog.

Edit: It could turn out to be a stroke of genius on Ned's part and he may set a new trend in review styles and delivery.

Edit: Edit: But then again, why did he post it in the Leica Talk forum and DPreview?

My First Post on Leica Talk: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Actual Post from Leica Talk:

That is bizarre......

MSM · 01-27-2009, 01:30 PM

Well, I was going to avoid weighing in on this hot topic because I thought it was a non-issue. I still do. But, I have to say that this is starting to sound a little contrived. To what end, I don't know. I mean it is one thing to say that an intelligent man that has risen to his respective post in Pentax has a misstep ( a momentary lapse in judgement) and posts this glowing report of another manufacture's camera. He then justifies his remarks carefully avoiding to appear too contrite on his blog to "cool the fires." If it ends there, I would say mistake made and let's move on. But, to turn around and post it on perhaps one of the most highly visited photography forums makes me think this is more about generating publicity. This is assuming he hasn't lost his mind! I think that would be in line with Pentax's party line of Be interesting!

Remember, it is better to be disparaged than forgotten. As much as I have come to love Pentax, it is a brand on the verge of being forgotten. Then, you have the new PR campaign and the release of the White limited edition Km. Like it or not people started talking about Pentax. Now this blog issue. More people talking of Pentax.

Perhaps some Leica or would be Leica users might be looking for another system when not wanting to use their M8's. Far-fetched? Perhaps. Also note you don't have to be invested or even own a Leica to read the threads. If I was a non-Pentaxian considering Leica and reading that thread I would have visited his blog and then travelled over to Pentax to find out more. Mission accomplished.

I do know that personally I love my Dlux 2 ( I am an early adopter

). When I wanted an dSLR which met my criteria of being well built, smaller, high quality glass, and outstanding image quality, I looked around and found Pentax. People are drawn to Leica for those same qualities. Like me, many find that the price of admission is a little steep. You might fall in love with the Summicron's etc. But when you see the Limiteds you feel that you have just found a hidden treasure. I think Ned is trying to make Pentax a little less 'Hidden.' How it turns out we will have to see.

MrApollinax · 01-27-2009, 01:45 PM

Has anyone seen his post in his blog commenting about all the posts on the interwebz proclaiming "OMG Ned thinks Lecia is the RoXorz!!!"

Originally posted by Ned Bunnel:

In closing, I hope that a few of you now recognize the "intent" of my post about the D-Lux 4. At the very least, give me credit for being a "photographer first" and recognize that this passion and knowledge is not necessarily a bad thing if you are in the business of making cameras :-)

NED BUNNELL: Tempest in a Teapot?

Tom S. · 01-27-2009, 01:45 PM

If I managed Pentax, the American branch would be looking for a new President.

I compare this to one of the Ford family buying a Corvette because Ford doesn't make a similar vehicle.

What a moron!

MrApollinax · 01-27-2009, 02:01 PM

Again i would invite everyone to read the link I posted above:

Originally posted by Ned Bunnell:

To those that say it's incredible (or stupid or worse) that I would acknowledge buying another brand camera, please refer to the camera market chart above. As you can see, the D-Lux falls into a category that we do not participate in. Of course when I'm surfing or near the water, I carry and thoroughly enjoy my W60. Like wise, as you all know from my posts here, I'm very active testing and shooting with our SLR's.

Originally posted by Ned Bunnell:

I also realized that my desire for a high-quality compact camera that offered near-SLR quality was probably shared by a few other Pentaxians. After posting this blog entry on the Leica forum of dpreview, it was interesting that several folks have already bought the D-Lux 4 or the Panasonic equivalent LX3. If there was any method to my madness in publishing this post, could it be that I was just throwing a lure out on the calm waters of lake pentax to see if anyone took the bait, or what your interest in this type of product would be?

http://nedbunnell.blogspot.com/2009/01/tempest-in-teapot.html#links

Blue · 01-27-2009, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by MrApollinax

Has anyone seen his post in his blog commenting about all the posts on the interwebz proclaiming "OMG Ned thinks Lecia is the RoXorz!!!"

NED BUNNELL: Tempest in a Teapot?

YES, we've seen it. Tempest in a Teapot was posted in part as a result of 2 threads on here. It was the post just prior to the Teapot that started all this. His post in the Leica Talk forum has made it "Interesting" to say the least.

MSM maybe correct in guessing that something is up. We shall see.

NewRsoul · 01-27-2009, 02:14 PM

As I said above he was back on the blog back pedalling quickly after the first post!

noblepa · 01-27-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

If I managed Pentax, the American branch would be looking for a new President.

I compare this to one of the Ford family buying a Corvette because Ford doesn't make a similar vehicle.

What a moron!

Actually, Edsel Ford bought one of the first MG sports cars. It is believed by many that his was the first one brought into the US. He did buy it in England and imported it himself. At the time (the thirties), the MG was not sold in the US.

And, I believe that Ed Cole, the father of the Corvette, owned a couple of British and German sports cars in the early fifties, which led him to decide that Chevrolet needed something to compete with them.

So, Ned Bunnell bought a Leica. While some may think this is crazy, I really don't think that Pentax competes in that particular niche. I seriously doubt that anyone narrows down his/her camera choice to a K20D or a Leica DigiLux (or any model). Anyone who wants a Leica isn't even going to consider a Pentax.

Paul Noble

MrApollinax · 01-27-2009, 02:58 PM

I guess I just don't get what the big deal is about. He made a decision as a consumer based on his needs and what was available to him in the market. He has every right to do so and (at least to me a non-shareholder) doesn't seem to have shown any conflict of interest being the CEO of Pentax. Does Pentax have anything in the same ball park that would fit his needs? No. So he found something that did. Again to me no big deal. Now if Pentax had something that directly competed with the Leicia and he still went out and bought a Leicia? then I would be warry and the shareholders would have something to talk about. Until Pentax takes the initiative to get into that market space I could care less that he as an avid photographer decided for his non-slr backup what he perceived as the best IQ in a small form factor.

my $.02 {voice = forrest gump} And thats all I really have to say about that {/voice}

nostatic · 01-27-2009, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by noblepa

Actually, Edsel Ford bought one of the first MG sports cars. It is believed by many that his was the first one brought into the US. He did buy it in England and imported it himself. At the time (the thirties), the MG was not sold in the US.

And, I believe that Ed Cole, the father of the Corvette, owned a couple of British and German sports cars in the early fifties, which led him to decide that Chevrolet needed something to compete with them.

So, Ned Bunnell bought a Leica. While some may think this is crazy, I really don't think that Pentax competes in that particular niche. I seriously doubt that anyone narrows down his/her camera choice to a K20D or a Leica DigiLux (or any model). Anyone who wants a Leica isn't even going to consider a Pentax.

Paul Noble

Actually i shoot both K20d and DLux4. But that isn't a "Leica" relative to most people's thinking.

I have to wonder how many of the naysayers here have actually been executives in a major (or even minor) corporation. Or any organization. Maybe we should require links to people's sites and resumes so we can have more clarity on what experiences people have backing their opinions.

01-27-2009, 08:08 AM	#1
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	sleeping dogs lie, not a chance Ned Now all behave.... this is actually an important matter (well kind of) and interesting to see it evolve a bit.. It's really not over... Pentax boss openly praises Leica D-Lux 4 on blog Any advertising is good advertising.... Still not convinced it was a smart move and it is definitely NOT japanese....

01-27-2009, 10:12 AM	#2
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	There's a lot of talk on other forums etc. but I don't see anything that has not been discussed in the other 2 threads other than the fact the Photography press thought it was news and praised Ned for his Blog. Edit: It could turn out to be a stroke of genius on Ned's part and he may set a new trend in review styles and delivery. Edit: Edit: But then again, why did he post it in the Leica Talk forum and DPreview? http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=30771713 Actual Post from Leica Talk: Quote: Greetings, This being my first post in Leica talk, I'd like to introduce myself. I've been wanting a compact camera that offers high-quality images and manual controls for quite some time. Thanks to this forum and members like Jim Radcliffe, who has some great galleries of photos, I bought the D-Lux 4 last week and immediately left for Tokyo on a business trip. If anyone is interested, I posted my first D-Lux photos on my blog... http://nedbunnell.blogspot.com/... ...after-42-yrs-new-leica-added-to-my.html I'm pretty active over on the Pentax SLR Talk forum, but will probably be spending more time here, as I need to come up to speed on using my new "red-dot" compact :-) Cheers, Ned Last edited by Blue; 01-27-2009 at 10:18 AM.

01-27-2009, 01:30 PM	#7
MSM Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 994	Be Interesting Well, I was going to avoid weighing in on this hot topic because I thought it was a non-issue. I still do. But, I have to say that this is starting to sound a little contrived. To what end, I don't know. I mean it is one thing to say that an intelligent man that has risen to his respective post in Pentax has a misstep ( a momentary lapse in judgement) and posts this glowing report of another manufacture's camera. He then justifies his remarks carefully avoiding to appear too contrite on his blog to "cool the fires." If it ends there, I would say mistake made and let's move on. But, to turn around and post it on perhaps one of the most highly visited photography forums makes me think this is more about generating publicity. This is assuming he hasn't lost his mind! I think that would be in line with Pentax's party line of Be interesting! Remember, it is better to be disparaged than forgotten. As much as I have come to love Pentax, it is a brand on the verge of being forgotten. Then, you have the new PR campaign and the release of the White limited edition Km. Like it or not people started talking about Pentax. Now this blog issue. More people talking of Pentax. Perhaps some Leica or would be Leica users might be looking for another system when not wanting to use their M8's. Far-fetched? Perhaps. Also note you don't have to be invested or even own a Leica to read the threads. If I was a non-Pentaxian considering Leica and reading that thread I would have visited his blog and then travelled over to Pentax to find out more. Mission accomplished. I do know that personally I love my Dlux 2 ( I am an early adopter ). When I wanted an dSLR which met my criteria of being well built, smaller, high quality glass, and outstanding image quality, I looked around and found Pentax. People are drawn to Leica for those same qualities. Like me, many find that the price of admission is a little steep. You might fall in love with the Summicron's etc. But when you see the Limiteds you feel that you have just found a hidden treasure. I think Ned is trying to make Pentax a little less 'Hidden.' How it turns out we will have to see.

01-27-2009, 02:53 PM	#13
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	Ford Originally posted by Tom S. If I managed Pentax, the American branch would be looking for a new President. I compare this to one of the Ford family buying a Corvette because Ford doesn't make a similar vehicle. What a moron! Actually, Edsel Ford bought one of the first MG sports cars. It is believed by many that his was the first one brought into the US. He did buy it in England and imported it himself. At the time (the thirties), the MG was not sold in the US. And, I believe that Ed Cole, the father of the Corvette, owned a couple of British and German sports cars in the early fifties, which led him to decide that Chevrolet needed something to compete with them. So, Ned Bunnell bought a Leica. While some may think this is crazy, I really don't think that Pentax competes in that particular niche. I seriously doubt that anyone narrows down his/her camera choice to a K20D or a Leica DigiLux (or any model). Anyone who wants a Leica isn't even going to consider a Pentax. Paul Noble

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01-27-2009, 10:38 AM	#3
NewRsoul Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 81	Looks like he's back pedalling to me! I'd suggest that he just didn't think it would cause so much of a rumpus. I believe he took it to a 'business meeting' in Japan, wonder if it was an interview for a job with Panasonic :-)

01-27-2009, 10:58 AM	#4
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	Sorry for my ignorance I am just curious about what is going on? Basically the boss of Pentax usa said that he is shooting with a leica P&S? in my head (and I am not an expert) I 've always compered leica and Pentax glass and the leica+Panasonic to Pentax+sumsung Panasonic have some of the best P&S around I would love to see a sumsung+pentax great great P&S maybe one with a Dslr sensor something like the sigma DP-1 or the D-lux 4 something that pro photogarohers can take in their pockets as backup

01-27-2009, 11:02 AM	#5
rburgoss Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, Costa Rica Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 972	Originally posted by Blue My First Post on Leica Talk: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Actual Post from Leica Talk: This short but simple words by Ned Bunnell will mean inmediate dismissal or at least, impeachment by the board of shareholders if he was hired by some other big company. It is like some CEO from General Motors all of a sudden buys a BMW and openly tells the BMW guys who he is and who he works for. It makes me remember some wise words that I can't remember from whom I heard: "There is never a second chance to make a first impression....." I can just see the guys from every other camera manufacturer, talking about how Pentax is going down the tubes that even its president for US operations is rapidly swithching brands.

01-27-2009, 11:08 AM	#6
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue There's a lot of talk on other forums etc. but I don't see anything that has not been discussed in the other 2 threads other than the fact the Photography press thought it was news and praised Ned for his Blog. Edit: It could turn out to be a stroke of genius on Ned's part and he may set a new trend in review styles and delivery. Edit: Edit: But then again, why did he post it in the Leica Talk forum and DPreview? My First Post on Leica Talk: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Actual Post from Leica Talk: That is bizarre......

01-27-2009, 01:45 PM	#8
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	Has anyone seen his post in his blog commenting about all the posts on the interwebz proclaiming "OMG Ned thinks Lecia is the RoXorz!!!" Originally posted by Ned Bunnel: In closing, I hope that a few of you now recognize the "intent" of my post about the D-Lux 4. At the very least, give me credit for being a "photographer first" and recognize that this passion and knowledge is not necessarily a bad thing if you are in the business of making cameras :-) NED BUNNELL: Tempest in a Teapot?

01-27-2009, 01:45 PM	#9
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	If I managed Pentax, the American branch would be looking for a new President. I compare this to one of the Ford family buying a Corvette because Ford doesn't make a similar vehicle. What a moron!

01-27-2009, 02:01 PM	#10
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	Again i would invite everyone to read the link I posted above: Originally posted by Ned Bunnell: To those that say it's incredible (or stupid or worse) that I would acknowledge buying another brand camera, please refer to the camera market chart above. As you can see, the D-Lux falls into a category that we do not participate in. Of course when I'm surfing or near the water, I carry and thoroughly enjoy my W60. Like wise, as you all know from my posts here, I'm very active testing and shooting with our SLR's. Originally posted by Ned Bunnell: I also realized that my desire for a high-quality compact camera that offered near-SLR quality was probably shared by a few other Pentaxians. After posting this blog entry on the Leica forum of dpreview, it was interesting that several folks have already bought the D-Lux 4 or the Panasonic equivalent LX3. If there was any method to my madness in publishing this post, could it be that I was just throwing a lure out on the calm waters of lake pentax to see if anyone took the bait, or what your interest in this type of product would be? http://nedbunnell.blogspot.com/2009/01/tempest-in-teapot.html#links

01-27-2009, 02:10 PM	#11
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by MrApollinax Has anyone seen his post in his blog commenting about all the posts on the interwebz proclaiming "OMG Ned thinks Lecia is the RoXorz!!!" NED BUNNELL: Tempest in a Teapot? YES, we've seen it. Tempest in a Teapot was posted in part as a result of 2 threads on here. It was the post just prior to the Teapot that started all this. His post in the Leica Talk forum has made it "Interesting" to say the least. MSM maybe correct in guessing that something is up. We shall see.

01-27-2009, 02:14 PM	#12
NewRsoul Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 81	As I said above he was back on the blog back pedalling quickly after the first post!

01-27-2009, 02:58 PM	#14
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	I guess I just don't get what the big deal is about. He made a decision as a consumer based on his needs and what was available to him in the market. He has every right to do so and (at least to me a non-shareholder) doesn't seem to have shown any conflict of interest being the CEO of Pentax. Does Pentax have anything in the same ball park that would fit his needs? No. So he found something that did. Again to me no big deal. Now if Pentax had something that directly competed with the Leicia and he still went out and bought a Leicia? then I would be warry and the shareholders would have something to talk about. Until Pentax takes the initiative to get into that market space I could care less that he as an avid photographer decided for his non-slr backup what he perceived as the best IQ in a small form factor. my $.02 {voice = forrest gump} And thats all I really have to say about that {/voice}

01-27-2009, 03:16 PM	#15
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by noblepa Actually, Edsel Ford bought one of the first MG sports cars. It is believed by many that his was the first one brought into the US. He did buy it in England and imported it himself. At the time (the thirties), the MG was not sold in the US. And, I believe that Ed Cole, the father of the Corvette, owned a couple of British and German sports cars in the early fifties, which led him to decide that Chevrolet needed something to compete with them. So, Ned Bunnell bought a Leica. While some may think this is crazy, I really don't think that Pentax competes in that particular niche. I seriously doubt that anyone narrows down his/her camera choice to a K20D or a Leica DigiLux (or any model). Anyone who wants a Leica isn't even going to consider a Pentax. Paul Noble Actually i shoot both K20d and DLux4. But that isn't a "Leica" relative to most people's thinking. I have to wonder how many of the naysayers here have actually been executives in a major (or even minor) corporation. Or any organization. Maybe we should require links to people's sites and resumes so we can have more clarity on what experiences people have backing their opinions.