DPR KM (K2000) Review

Groucho · 01-31-2009, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Erik

Honestly -- I'm sure the K2000 is a great camera but what they said about the lack of focus point indication makes sense to me and would make me think twice about buying this camera. It's a total mystery why Pentax chose to remove the red AF boxes -- what could they possibly cost to implement, three bucks?

Haven't read the review (likely won't bother), but not having the red boxes is nothing new. My *ist DL didn't have them, either.

mattdm · 01-31-2009, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by kristoffon

I've lost all respect I had for DPR opinions. Well, the little left over after they based the K10D for "soft" JPGs on default settings, or whatever it was the setting they wouldn't change.

Just to review, the complaint had nothing to do with any setting you could change on the K10D. The relevant setting was added only on the K20D — "fine sharpness".

Now whether they should have made such a big deal of this is another issue — but at least it's something they're consistent about, as we can see here.

bymy141 · 01-31-2009, 07:18 AM

If you compare the colour reproduction of the K-m with the K10D and K20D (make sure to select natural for for the K10/20 and the K-m), you can see clear and big differences.
Pentax K2000 Review: 21. Photographic tests: Digital Photography Review

I must agree with DPR, if you introduce an entry level camera where one would need to tweak the JPG settings or shoot raw its not done right. That is not to be expected for beginners to be understood and done.

Also without the ability to select any focus point except the middle one while it does not indicate its selection otherwise, Pentax has crippled the wrong thing in this camera IMHO.

Let's hope they improve themselves with the K30D, so I can upgrade my K10D.

- Bert

Kunzite · 01-31-2009, 07:41 AM

It sounds like you expected to "upgrade" to the K-m...

Entry level cameras are crippled, period. Pentax is not the worst in this regard.
So, if you're looking at an upgrade, look at the K20D (now, with none of the negative points - oh, yeah, it can get excellent jpegs!) or wait for an advanced model that should come out this year.

calicojack · 01-31-2009, 07:54 AM

I just picked up a copy of January's "Digital Camera" magazine from the UK. They did a review of the KM where they love the camera. They do complain about the cheap version of the 18-55 kit lens that comes in the package. They rated the camera favorably against the Nikon D60 and the Canon EOS 1000D.

bymy141 · 01-31-2009, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

It sounds like you expected to "upgrade" to the K-m...

Entry level cameras are crippled, period. Pentax is not the worst in this regard.
So, if you're looking at an upgrade, look at the K20D (now, with none of the negative points - oh, yeah, it can get excellent jpegs!) or wait for an advanced model that should come out this year.

Ok, I should have spend more words I guess.

I expect (hope) to upgrade to a K30D or something like it soon.
What I hope for is that Pentax will do the right things in AF, low light AF, noise and LV autofocus. Then I'll be one of the first to get one.
If they focus too much on popular items like Full HD movie and forget to address the photographer upgrades, like they forgot the right beginner standard settings with the K-m, I will not upgrade.
If Pentax fails to have a (proper) K30D before the summer, I'll probably switch brands. We will spend some time in Africa again and I want to improve ISO sensitivity and upgrade my lenses.

Pentax recently made a white coloured K-m, targeted at women.
If you read the designers stories on the K-m special website, you'll see that the whole product is target at women, of whom they expect little or no camera knowledge.
The women I know with a DSLR understand focus point selection much better than they understand JPG settings, and they use it!
I do agree with DPR that Pentax made design errors here. Perhaps a good firmware upgrade can set things right. But then again, can you expect this target market to install a K-m firmware upgrade???

- Bert

arbutusq · 01-31-2009, 08:06 AM

I had a quick look at the review, and while some of their criticisms are valid some others aren't. As a K=m owner here are my thoughts.

Jegs are soft viewed at 100% at default but how do they look full sized.

In other reviews they bemoan heavy handed NR but the K-m is hands off and they take points away.

Sure the pentax only has 5 AF points, but how many does the D60 or E 420 have?

Some of the criticisms are valid, no orientation sensor, AF assist or Kelvin WB, but a lot of it is sketchy.

I love this little camera and consider it a wonderful piece of equipment. It does everything I need it do do and does it well. AF at the center point is quick and snappy, as is camera operation in general. IQ in RAW is second to none and it is very intuitive to use. That's all that matters to me.

**GaryM** · 01-31-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by bymy141

I must agree with DPR, if you introduce an entry level camera where one would need to tweak the JPG settings or shoot raw its not done right. That is not to be expected for beginners to be understood and done.

Here's my issue with that line of thought: the typical entry-level buyer is not going to find any problem with the JPEGs at all! DPReview's tests are done with a tripod mounted camera and a 50mm prime, stopped down to optimum apertures. I know a few people who bought entry level cameras in the last few years, and they only use their kit lenses and *never* use a tripod. And they're more than happy with the small prints and images they post on Flikr. And I think Pentax tweaked their JPEG output to satisfy their target market, not the pixel-peepers at DPReview. And as an amateur grows with their camera, they can learn how to adjust the JPEG output, or (God forbid!) they can start shooting RAW.

terminator · 01-31-2009, 02:39 PM

DPR has a case to complain about k2000's in-camera jpeg processing. I understand that it is important for P&S users who first get their hand on a DSLR. However, as a sole raw shooter, I always skip over any thing about in-camera jpeg processing for all DSLR reviews at DPR.

As a k2000 owner, I still want to complain the lack of AF confirmation and AF point selection. This is a terrible terrible decision for whatever reason.

joele · 01-31-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by arbutusq

Sure the pentax only has 5 AF points, but how many does the D60 or E 420 have?

The e420 and e520 have 3 (which is miserable IMO) but in auto mode they clearly flash to show the user which one was used and there is a mode to allow the user to select the point (as other Pentax DSLR have)..

I do agree with DRP it was nasty to remove that mode and not give feedback as to which one was used in auto mode.. however I do agree they rated it a bit harsh in the the final rating, holding it to a higher standard to some previous cameras from other manufacturers. I can only think they maybe rated it as a successor to the k200d and that is why they were so harsh????

Kunzite · 02-01-2009, 02:56 AM

I think they were so harsh because it's a Pentax

Boris · 02-01-2009, 04:48 AM

Noone seems to have noticed (of course as it is buried deep in menu review sections) that P-mode of K2000D is shiftable as per respective configuration setting. I think this is really big thing.

Also you get adjustable white balance of the camera screen. With enough patience it means it can be brought close to that of one's calibrated monitor. Again, this is major thing and it gets very little mention in the review.

Like someone said earlier, DPReview reviews are worth in a sense that they show in very thorough way camera operation, controls, etc. It is just second to having handled the camera oneself. It is also worth looking at their test shots, especially those in RAW, 'cause one may hope these shots are done in reasonably repeatable conditions, but without reading the comments.

To me K2000D comes across as fair and valiant sword by which much honorable advancement can be made. Personally I am still holding on my K10D and either it will be upgraded with whatever comes after K20D or I will have to consider more creative steps.

mbh · 02-01-2009, 07:12 AM

I own the camera and have read the review. Its a fair assessment of the camera IMHO.

On its own, this camera body is good but not great. Some of its direct competitors will take better shots out of the box.

Every salesperson in the local camera shops told me the same thing regardless of brand - ditch the kit lens and get better glass. So I made a choice - cheaper body and get better lenses and a flash. There are better and more affordable options with Pentax than with other brands. I'll be buying a lens or two within the next month.... the fa50mm 1.4 is calling my name.

So I could have bought a D80 and stuck with a kit lens and been around the same price as the K-M with the 18-55, 50-200, a, af-360 flash and a used 50mm prime. I like where I'm at. I'm just trying to get nice photos for the grandparents and entertain myself after all.

RMabo · 02-01-2009, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by Erik

Honestly -- I'm sure the K2000 is a great camera but what they said about the lack of focus point indication makes sense to me and would make me think twice about buying this camera. It's a total mystery why Pentax chose to remove the red AF boxes -- what could they possibly cost to implement, three bucks?

That is actually quite an advanced hardware system in the viewfinder, and not as cheap as you believe it is. The K-m uses the same AF layout as the *ist DL2 and no one complained back then...

RMabo · 02-01-2009, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by bymy141

I must agree with DPR, if you introduce an entry level camera where one would need to tweak the JPG settings or shoot raw its not done right. That is not to be expected for beginners to be understood and done.

If beginners are not interrested in settings and adjustments, then there is no need for them to buy a DSLR instead of a compact P&S. The key advantage with a DSLR over a p&S is that the DSLR offers more control over the image - so if you are not interrested in taking advantage of this additional control, then buy a DSLR.

So criticising the K-m because it is a DSLR instead of a p&s, is silly.

It is not hard to change settings, just switch the image tone. It takes less than 1/2 second.

Oh, I believe many users will use the camera in Auto Picture Mode.
Well, in Auto picture the camera will set one of 6 image tone that suits the subject and shooting conditions the best. So what default image tone? One can say that the K-m has 6 default image tones, at least in Auto Picture Mode. Shouldn't then all those 6 image tones be tested? Since the camera can pick any of them in it's auto setting?
Judgin the JPEG output from only one of the image tones is silly and unfair.

01-31-2009, 07:54 AM	#20
calicojack Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island, N.Y. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,124	A different opinion I just picked up a copy of January's "Digital Camera" magazine from the UK. They did a review of the KM where they love the camera. They do complain about the cheap version of the 18-55 kit lens that comes in the package. They rated the camera favorably against the Nikon D60 and the Canon EOS 1000D.

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01-31-2009, 06:46 AM	#16
Groucho Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	Originally posted by Erik Honestly -- I'm sure the K2000 is a great camera but what they said about the lack of focus point indication makes sense to me and would make me think twice about buying this camera. It's a total mystery why Pentax chose to remove the red AF boxes -- what could they possibly cost to implement, three bucks? Haven't read the review (likely won't bother), but not having the red boxes is nothing new. My *ist DL didn't have them, either.

01-31-2009, 06:52 AM	#17
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by kristoffon I've lost all respect I had for DPR opinions. Well, the little left over after they based the K10D for "soft" JPGs on default settings, or whatever it was the setting they wouldn't change. Just to review, the complaint had nothing to do with any setting you could change on the K10D. The relevant setting was added only on the K20D — "fine sharpness". Now whether they should have made such a big deal of this is another issue — but at least it's something they're consistent about, as we can see here.

01-31-2009, 07:18 AM	#18
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	If you compare the colour reproduction of the K-m with the K10D and K20D (make sure to select natural for for the K10/20 and the K-m), you can see clear and big differences. Pentax K2000 Review: 21. Photographic tests: Digital Photography Review I must agree with DPR, if you introduce an entry level camera where one would need to tweak the JPG settings or shoot raw its not done right. That is not to be expected for beginners to be understood and done. Also without the ability to select any focus point except the middle one while it does not indicate its selection otherwise, Pentax has crippled the wrong thing in this camera IMHO. Let's hope they improve themselves with the K30D, so I can upgrade my K10D. - Bert

01-31-2009, 07:41 AM	#19
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	It sounds like you expected to "upgrade" to the K-m... Entry level cameras are crippled, period. Pentax is not the worst in this regard. So, if you're looking at an upgrade, look at the K20D (now, with none of the negative points - oh, yeah, it can get excellent jpegs!) or wait for an advanced model that should come out this year.

01-31-2009, 08:04 AM	#21
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	Originally posted by Kunzite It sounds like you expected to "upgrade" to the K-m... Entry level cameras are crippled, period. Pentax is not the worst in this regard. So, if you're looking at an upgrade, look at the K20D (now, with none of the negative points - oh, yeah, it can get excellent jpegs!) or wait for an advanced model that should come out this year. Ok, I should have spend more words I guess. I expect (hope) to upgrade to a K30D or something like it soon. What I hope for is that Pentax will do the right things in AF, low light AF, noise and LV autofocus. Then I'll be one of the first to get one. If they focus too much on popular items like Full HD movie and forget to address the photographer upgrades, like they forgot the right beginner standard settings with the K-m, I will not upgrade. If Pentax fails to have a (proper) K30D before the summer, I'll probably switch brands. We will spend some time in Africa again and I want to improve ISO sensitivity and upgrade my lenses. Pentax recently made a white coloured K-m, targeted at women. If you read the designers stories on the K-m special website, you'll see that the whole product is target at women, of whom they expect little or no camera knowledge. The women I know with a DSLR understand focus point selection much better than they understand JPG settings, and they use it! I do agree with DPR that Pentax made design errors here. Perhaps a good firmware upgrade can set things right. But then again, can you expect this target market to install a K-m firmware upgrade??? - Bert

01-31-2009, 08:06 AM	#22
arbutusq Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vancouver BC canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 380	I had a quick look at the review, and while some of their criticisms are valid some others aren't. As a K=m owner here are my thoughts. Jegs are soft viewed at 100% at default but how do they look full sized. In other reviews they bemoan heavy handed NR but the K-m is hands off and they take points away. Sure the pentax only has 5 AF points, but how many does the D60 or E 420 have? Some of the criticisms are valid, no orientation sensor, AF assist or Kelvin WB, but a lot of it is sketchy. I love this little camera and consider it a wonderful piece of equipment. It does everything I need it do do and does it well. AF at the center point is quick and snappy, as is camera operation in general. IQ in RAW is second to none and it is very intuitive to use. That's all that matters to me.

01-31-2009, 11:39 AM	#23
GaryM Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montclair, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 426	Originally posted by bymy141 I must agree with DPR, if you introduce an entry level camera where one would need to tweak the JPG settings or shoot raw its not done right. That is not to be expected for beginners to be understood and done. Here's my issue with that line of thought: the typical entry-level buyer is not going to find any problem with the JPEGs at all! DPReview's tests are done with a tripod mounted camera and a 50mm prime, stopped down to optimum apertures. I know a few people who bought entry level cameras in the last few years, and they only use their kit lenses and never use a tripod. And they're more than happy with the small prints and images they post on Flikr. And I think Pentax tweaked their JPEG output to satisfy their target market, not the pixel-peepers at DPReview. And as an amateur grows with their camera, they can learn how to adjust the JPEG output, or (God forbid!) they can start shooting RAW.

01-31-2009, 02:39 PM	#24
terminator New Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Posts: 20	DPR has a case to complain about k2000's in-camera jpeg processing. I understand that it is important for P&S users who first get their hand on a DSLR. However, as a sole raw shooter, I always skip over any thing about in-camera jpeg processing for all DSLR reviews at DPR. As a k2000 owner, I still want to complain the lack of AF confirmation and AF point selection. This is a terrible terrible decision for whatever reason.

01-31-2009, 05:23 PM	#25
joele Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308	Originally posted by arbutusq Sure the pentax only has 5 AF points, but how many does the D60 or E 420 have? The e420 and e520 have 3 (which is miserable IMO) but in auto mode they clearly flash to show the user which one was used and there is a mode to allow the user to select the point (as other Pentax DSLR have).. I do agree with DRP it was nasty to remove that mode and not give feedback as to which one was used in auto mode.. however I do agree they rated it a bit harsh in the the final rating, holding it to a higher standard to some previous cameras from other manufacturers. I can only think they maybe rated it as a successor to the k200d and that is why they were so harsh????

02-01-2009, 02:56 AM	#26
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I think they were so harsh because it's a Pentax

02-01-2009, 04:48 AM	#27
Boris Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Israel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 932	Noone seems to have noticed (of course as it is buried deep in menu review sections) that P-mode of K2000D is shiftable as per respective configuration setting. I think this is really big thing. Also you get adjustable white balance of the camera screen. With enough patience it means it can be brought close to that of one's calibrated monitor. Again, this is major thing and it gets very little mention in the review. Like someone said earlier, DPReview reviews are worth in a sense that they show in very thorough way camera operation, controls, etc. It is just second to having handled the camera oneself. It is also worth looking at their test shots, especially those in RAW, 'cause one may hope these shots are done in reasonably repeatable conditions, but without reading the comments. To me K2000D comes across as fair and valiant sword by which much honorable advancement can be made. Personally I am still holding on my K10D and either it will be upgraded with whatever comes after K20D or I will have to consider more creative steps.

02-01-2009, 07:12 AM	#28
mbh Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 39	I own the camera and have read the review. Its a fair assessment of the camera IMHO. On its own, this camera body is good but not great. Some of its direct competitors will take better shots out of the box. Every salesperson in the local camera shops told me the same thing regardless of brand - ditch the kit lens and get better glass. So I made a choice - cheaper body and get better lenses and a flash. There are better and more affordable options with Pentax than with other brands. I'll be buying a lens or two within the next month.... the fa50mm 1.4 is calling my name. So I could have bought a D80 and stuck with a kit lens and been around the same price as the K-M with the 18-55, 50-200, a, af-360 flash and a used 50mm prime. I like where I'm at. I'm just trying to get nice photos for the grandparents and entertain myself after all.

02-01-2009, 07:23 AM	#29
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by Erik Honestly -- I'm sure the K2000 is a great camera but what they said about the lack of focus point indication makes sense to me and would make me think twice about buying this camera. It's a total mystery why Pentax chose to remove the red AF boxes -- what could they possibly cost to implement, three bucks? That is actually quite an advanced hardware system in the viewfinder, and not as cheap as you believe it is. The K-m uses the same AF layout as the *ist DL2 and no one complained back then...

02-01-2009, 07:28 AM	#30
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by bymy141 I must agree with DPR, if you introduce an entry level camera where one would need to tweak the JPG settings or shoot raw its not done right. That is not to be expected for beginners to be understood and done. If beginners are not interrested in settings and adjustments, then there is no need for them to buy a DSLR instead of a compact P&S. The key advantage with a DSLR over a p&S is that the DSLR offers more control over the image - so if you are not interrested in taking advantage of this additional control, then buy a DSLR. So criticising the K-m because it is a DSLR instead of a p&s, is silly. It is not hard to change settings, just switch the image tone. It takes less than 1/2 second. Oh, I believe many users will use the camera in Auto Picture Mode. Well, in Auto picture the camera will set one of 6 image tone that suits the subject and shooting conditions the best. So what default image tone? One can say that the K-m has 6 default image tones, at least in Auto Picture Mode. Shouldn't then all those 6 image tones be tested? Since the camera can pick any of them in it's auto setting? Judgin the JPEG output from only one of the image tones is silly and unfair.