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02-10-2009, 06:14 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by coon Quote
In the end costs are proportional to the square of area.
False.

In the end costs are at least proportional to the area. The extra factor can be anything between 1 (low fault density) and infinite (very high fault density). It could be 4x the cost for 2x the area. But normally, it isn't. You need to know the exact fault density. In a maturing process, fault density decreases and the extra factor approaches 1.


On topic:
The idea of the OP has been excessively discussed already. IMHO, only one point needs attention: that crop isn't forced w/o a way to switch it off.


Last edited by falconeye; 02-10-2009 at 06:19 PM.
02-10-2009, 07:25 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by shuie Quote
After reading the reply I was about to make I realized I was straying way off topic. I guess what I intended with this thread was the possibility of a FF camera that worked with all lenses as the lenses were designed to be used. I felt that using a higher mp ff sensor would have the added benefit of a better image in cropped mode. My whole reasonong behind this was to say pentax could still go ff and not worry about losing compatability with their aps-c lenses
Nikon and Sony FF cameras already do that. That's what the purposed Pentax FF body should do. In fact I want it to offer 1:1, 5:4, 3:2, 16:9 respect ratio for all cropped lenses.

Oh and I don't know who said that the DA15 is a joke. Dude, you are a joke. I personally can not think of a better single lens for travel.
02-10-2009, 07:37 PM   #48
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[QUOTE=redpigeons;484555]for now why not give us more D FA lenses? that design for both sensors. also why stop making the fa lenses?

FA's
Wasn't there something to do with lead in some of the earlier fa lens designs?
Although, picking up a 28-70 4.0 I have on the table I do see that it has a CE mark on it (indicating lead free). The margin on newer lenses is probably a lot higher. Does Pentax still have the tooling available to make those lenses (excepting 50mm)?

I agree that there would be little technical difficulty making say a 28mm 2.0 or brighter - And that would be very welcome at this point as a standard low light lens

This Maybe a little off-topic
Regarding the sensors - I've never understood why photo sites on a sensor can not be structured more like our eye - packed in the centre (with colour "cones") and reduced somewhat at the extremities (B/W vision which is tolerant of lower light). That way if you were using cropped lenses you could make the most of the MP at the centre, and deal with light fall off better at the extremities..... I'm sure there is a reason why not, however.
02-11-2009, 12:02 AM   #49
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One thing I always feel is that technology always gets the best of us. I'm sure someday some engineer/designer will find a way to cram more photosites in a smaller area with less noise than previously imagined. Give it time it will happen. I had a friend years ago tell me a 486 computer was as fast as it could get because of limitations in transfer speed due to cunductor capicity. It seems today he was wrong.I predict someday we will see sensors in the 24 mp range that will give us the same noise and quality at iso 3200 as we see today at iso 100. It might be 10 years but who knows. That is one thing depressing about digital cameras. they are now more like computers, outdated before they are even released. At least with film the majority of the limitations was with the medium, not the hardware. I can only dream that when these new sensors come about pentax is one of the early players, not an also ran.

02-11-2009, 05:25 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Regarding the sensors - I've never understood why photo sites on a sensor can not be structured more like our eye - packed in the centre (with colour "cones")
This is a very interesting idea. There is one caveat, only. The human eye uses saccadic eye movements to keep all interesting parts sharp. Even on a print. Therefore, ideally, a print's resolution matches that of the eye's fovea, everywhere (btw: if you multiply an eye's FoV (200°) with its fovea resolution, you'll be shocked at the required pixel count for that...).
QuoteOriginally posted by shuie Quote
I'm sure someday some engineer/designer will find a way to cram more photosites in a smaller area with less noise than previously imagined.
Please, be aware that there is a hard limit. It cannot get any better than counting every photon and its energy (aka color). Once this limit is reached, we will speak of a quantum efficiency of 1. Currently, quantum efficiencies aren't that bad.
02-11-2009, 06:38 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
This is a very interesting idea. There is one caveat, only. The human eye uses saccadic eye movements to keep all interesting parts sharp. Even on a print. Therefore, ideally, a print's resolution matches that of the eye's fovea, everywhere (btw: if you multiply an eye's FoV (200°) with its fovea resolution, you'll be shocked at the required pixel count for that...).
.
Isn't it around 128mp?

I remember my neurology lecturer saying that the eye is capable of detecting detail up to as small as the gap between cone cells - i.e. 'perfect resolution' as it were.

Now imagine if our lenses were actually any good optically speaking!
02-11-2009, 08:16 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by shuie Quote
I predict someday we will see sensors in the 24 mp range that will give us the same noise and quality at iso 3200 as we see today at iso 100.
No doubt, but the *same* technology can be applied to FF w/ the bigger photosites, so they'll get those insane ISOs they get now...ISO64000, etc.
And you still have the cost, cost, cost issue.
Both of these issues are limited by pure physics...

redpigeons: what action did you use on that? It's pretty funky looking DOF...almost like you're using a TS lens that we unfortunately don't have in the Pentax ecosystem...
02-11-2009, 10:44 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by shuie Quote
So what would be the mp count of a APS-c image taken with an 18 mp ff sensor?
18 Mpix / 2.37 (24x36 FF to Pentax APS-C approx. surface ratio) = 7.6 Mpix approx.

Not bad. With large microlenses (or near gapless photosites) and good in-camera noise reduction (high chroma noise reduction, little luminance noise reduction), this could mean very good image quality up to ISO 6400 or more!

Enough to match or beat the Nikon D3... and for half the price or less. But you'll get 3.5 fps instead of 9 fps.

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