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02-20-2009, 02:58 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
2 Years is likely the time its taken for canon to come up with a unique 17mm T&S and 24mm T&S upgrade and both rotate too. I haven't read this but the rumors concerning these say the two preserve metadata tilt and shift info. If so that would be even more thought provoking. I've yet to read this is verified specs, so we'll see if tilt and shift metadata is preserved when they launch in May 09.
That metadata would actually be really sweet.

Although for the price they're asking...the lenses should take the picture for me
QuoteOriginally posted by the_int21h Quote
Lenses are one of the few things that will not lose value, nor are they perishable.
I used to agree with this. The unique, desirable, and/or rare lenses will not go down in value and maybe even up.

Remember Canon FD? In a single stroke, Canon made EF the standard and put the FD system into obsolescence. I bet the people with FD T/S lenses thought they'd be usable for years and years. Well...only up till 1988 (I think that was the year).

Lenses are not above physics...even the "Measuring Standards" like the KG weight kept in a vacuum or the laser to determine the speed of light are deteriorating. Focus grease breaks down, pins break, gears come off track, lenses come out of their seat, etc.

As far as the new T/S lenses...they'll sell some but I bet a few will sit on a shelf. Saying that "they will sell eventually" is only something time will reveal.

02-20-2009, 04:52 PM   #47
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Yes, it is alot of money for new tilt and shift and rotating lenses

ALL the manufacturers start high and then drop price. If one can afford to wait its easy to save 20% plus. 20% on the 17mm is $500 off. I'll see where these two lenses are at around turkey day 2009. I've owned 35mm TS and it wasn't wide enough for my needs so I sold it and done without.

The 17mm is pretty appealing and priced less than 5D mark II full frame dslr to start. I'd say Nov 2009 17mmTS should be $2,000 unless nikon continues to raise their lens prices. They just hit UK with the 2nd hike since Nov 2008. As I own multiple dslr brands I'd be hardpressed to pass on 17mmTS at $2,000.

Yeah what canon did to FD sucks. FD is my first system. However abandoning FD and starting new with Eos mount was likely the smartest move for Canon. I still own a few FD cameras:

Several F-1 and 1/3 of all the FD glass I used to own.

It all still works just fine and really the problems now are crappy film services locally. So that for me kills film, bad and overpriced "service". Anyways, FD glass is useable on Panasonic G1 via glassless adapter for a 2x crop capture. G1 is likely the next thing I buy just to see what my FD glass can do digitally. In europe they are giving 3 years warranty and USA is stuck at 1 year. As soon as Panasonic throws me the 3 year warranty bone in USA I'll Bite and get me a RED G1 to drive my old FD glass.



QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
That metadata would actually be really sweet.

Although for the price they're asking...the lenses should take the picture for me

I used to agree with this. The unique, desirable, and/or rare lenses will not go down in value and maybe even up.

Remember Canon FD? In a single stroke, Canon made EF the standard and put the FD system into obsolescence. I bet the people with FD T/S lenses thought they'd be usable for years and years. Well...only up till 1988 (I think that was the year).

Lenses are not above physics...even the "Measuring Standards" like the KG weight kept in a vacuum or the laser to determine the speed of light are deteriorating. Focus grease breaks down, pins break, gears come off track, lenses come out of their seat, etc.

As far as the new T/S lenses...they'll sell some but I bet a few will sit on a shelf. Saying that "they will sell eventually" is only something time will reveal.
02-20-2009, 05:57 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
I used to agree with this. The unique, desirable, and/or rare lenses will not go down in value and maybe even up.

Remember Canon FD? In a single stroke, Canon made EF the standard and put the FD system into obsolescence. I bet the people with FD T/S lenses thought they'd be usable for years and years. Well...only up till 1988 (I think that was the year).

It was hardly that tidy, really. And those FD T/S lenses still go for *big* bucks, especially considering that I don't know *whose* first choice for most of the purposes of those was ever Canon, anyway. Fact was that Canon was already making disconcerting motions toward taking much of the FD line toward the cheaper stuff, anyway.

More like 1992, btw, when the F-1N and T90 went out of production. (Or, they stopped shipping em, I actually forget which, you could still get them new for quite a while after, if you had the money)

If you need a brand new camera to take pictures this year. Didn't used to be that way, you know. (hoisting F-1N out of daily carry bag.) Really.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 02-20-2009 at 06:04 PM.
02-20-2009, 07:09 PM   #49
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B&H carried brand new FD lenses and cameras in 1995.

My canon dealer sheets dropped 98% of FD equiptment in 1996. Until a 5 years ago you could still buy brand new Fd macro equiptment. The Eos 1x-5x 65mm MPE launch killed off the FD bellows, bellows lenses, the Fd to Eos mount adapters, heilicoil focusers, reversers, extention tubes ect.......

I bought and used and then sold my FD 35mm Tilt Shift for no gain or loss after 5 years of use. Today it still sells for same $500 Bill for a mint sample. Unless your equiptment gets stolen and is not insured, dropped and destroyed and not insured, it will hold 80% purchase price if bought smartly. Getting anything the first day is stupid unless you got a paying gig and need it.

Once I bought my first dslr upon issue at full price I was insulated from ever having to be the first to buy anything at full price ever again. Buying my 2nd identical K Mount dslr 5 months later for exactly half price was all the tuition I needed to learn from that Be First & Pay The Most lesson.

I think alot of Pentaxians have learned from this? $1,299 K20D, $1,000 50-135mm SDM, $1,400 300mm SDM, and least I forget: $800 55mm SDM. Feels like a $550 lens by Christmas 2009 to me. But if you NEED IT, buy it for $200 to $300 more for an extra nine months of enjoyment.

Everyone does this. Except Nikon has started high, then dropped price and now is returning to launch prices. Which is a bummer if there was something one needed and didn't act in time to get the fall 2008 good deals.

My guess, the days of $2,000 full frame dslrs from Canon and Nikon are over. Where consumer/prosumer full frames end up I bet will settle above $3,000 if Yen stays strong against the planet.



QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
It was hardly that tidy, really. And those FD T/S lenses still go for *big* bucks, especially considering that I don't know *whose* first choice for most of the purposes of those was ever Canon, anyway. Fact was that Canon was already making disconcerting motions toward taking much of the FD line toward the cheaper stuff, anyway.

More like 1992, btw, when the F-1N and T90 went out of production. (Or, they stopped shipping em, I actually forget which, you could still get them new for quite a while after, if you had the money)

If you need a brand new camera to take pictures this year. Didn't used to be that way, you know. (hoisting F-1N out of daily carry bag.) Really.


02-21-2009, 12:34 AM   #50
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The T/S lenses are special enough that their value will remain constant.

To contrast, look at all the 80s 70-210 zooms you can get on ebay for the shipping cost of a flat rate box.

Staying with the current discussion and remaining on topic ( )...I want a G1-like cam to use other neglected lenses. With the Cine-mount adapter...there's $3 Goodwill cams who can donate their 12mm f/1.2 lenses, for example...or use those beloved FDs Give us something to talk about, Pentax! Look what the G1 has done for Panasonic...
02-21-2009, 06:03 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
The T/S lenses are special enough that their value will remain constant.

To contrast, look at all the 80s 70-210 zooms you can get on ebay for the shipping cost of a flat rate box.

Staying with the current discussion and remaining on topic ( )...I want a G1-like cam to use other neglected lenses. With the Cine-mount adapter...there's $3 Goodwill cams who can donate their 12mm f/1.2 lenses, for example...or use those beloved FDs Give us something to talk about, Pentax! Look what the G1 has done for Panasonic...
G1 hasn't done anything for the Panasonic. I am not seeing any new user outside of Japan buying this camera.
02-21-2009, 06:53 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
G1 hasn't done anything for the Panasonic. I am not seeing any new user outside of Japan buying this camera.
Well, it did create buzz for Panasonic, at least, though you're right in saying that it hasn't done much for Panasonic in terms of sales worldwide. I have yet to see someone actually using one in my neck of the woods.

Most people who had their curiosity piqued by the G1 concept are possibly waiting to see what Olympus does with the m4/3 system first.
02-21-2009, 01:54 PM   #53
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There are a couple folks on manual lens forums who have one...but it's true...the buzz was huge for them. Someone here posted a graph...the G1 was the most "searched" camera on DPR or Google...can't remember exactly.

If customers didn't buy a G1, how many bought a different Panasonic P&S? That is a stat I'd like to see.

Come on Samsung...let's see your m4/3 competitor already...

02-21-2009, 03:57 PM   #54
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Minor upgrade?

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I see no significant pre-announcement rumours whatsoever. Just, the wish for it. IMHO, we are to expect a minor upgrade to the K20D only. Like GPS, faster frame rate and better LiveView.
I don't see a faster frame rate and better live view as minor upgrades.
If they upgrade the frame rate, it won't be called a K20DXXXXX.

Personally I am hopeful of an announcement of more weatherproofed lenses and accessories or maybe a waterproof model or compact UW housing.
02-21-2009, 04:52 PM   #55
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I think Pentax will have a new mid-range model, somewhere in between a KM/K2000 and a K30. a K300d with a 14MP CMOS sensor the K20 has now along with AA battery ability would be nice. The k30 might have a 20+ MP sensor,live view and HD movie mode to boot...and please Pentax, illuminate that top panel LCD in your mid range model
02-22-2009, 11:49 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
The T/S lenses are special enough that their value will remain constant.

To contrast, look at all the 80s 70-210 zooms you can get on ebay for the shipping cost of a flat rate box.

Staying with the current discussion and remaining on topic ( )...I want a G1-like cam to use other neglected lenses. With the Cine-mount adapter...there's $3 Goodwill cams who can donate their 12mm f/1.2 lenses, for example...or use those beloved FDs Give us something to talk about, Pentax! Look what the G1 has done for Panasonic...
It would be good to see that, though a Micro Four Thirds crop would only turn my FDs into a bunch of telephotos anyway. , the which wouldn't be very helpful, actually. Not too likely I'd spend the couple-few hundred dollars on an adapter just for that.

The 70-210 zooms, particularly for FD, are, of course, pretty cheap, ...Canon's own FD ones run to about sixty or seventy bucks, and those were made by the millions-upon millions. (I've got a bunch of different sized aftermarket ones I paid pretty much fifteen dollars apiece for. One thing about the general drop in demand is it's been cheap to replace all kind of old stuff I had to sell or which had been worn out. I have to admit I would look at and bid on the Canon branded ones and wonder who could possibly be *buying* all of them, even so.

But, there'll probably be one there should I have call for it.
02-22-2009, 05:18 PM   #57
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I still find it amazing that no DSLRs have been announced when PMA is only two weeks away.
02-22-2009, 05:38 PM   #58
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I'm deciding on whether to add G1 or not for my remaining FD glass

Its got a very cool Articulated viewscreen and G1 is essentially a Mirrorless digital back for FD lenses among other orphaned mounts:

Panasonic G1 and Canon FD - FM Forums

G1 has got The Buzz....

Heck even Pentax USA Prez is In Love with his Panasonic / Leica digital point & shoot camera bought & boasted about as "it does not compete with Pentax." Well guess what... G1 doesn't compete with pentax current lineup either. Panasonic is good enough for leica, good enough Pentax Prez, it should be good enough for my abandoned FD lenses too, huh? I think 2009 will be Panasonic's year. Not in total sales but easily The Best Improved over last year sale volumes. Just when you think the race includes Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, and Sony suddenly there is a 6th player shooting way up out of nowhwere to the highly coveted #3 spot.

I've still got my cheaper Fd glass still, sold off my big whites long ago and I wonder if I should drop $669 G1 at B&H and $100 for jinfinance at ebay G1 to Fd glass adapter. Its been an expensive gear year for me in adding both Nikon & Canon full frame dslrs & complimentary lenses so I hessitate to drop a dime more. At the moment I'll watch and learn what other Fd owners are achieveing with their abandoned mount glass.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
It would be good to see that, though a Micro Four Thirds crop would only turn my FDs into a bunch of telephotos anyway. , the which wouldn't be very helpful, actually. Not too likely I'd spend the couple-few hundred dollars on an adapter just for that.

The 70-210 zooms, particularly for FD, are, of course, pretty cheap, ...Canon's own FD ones run to about sixty or seventy bucks, and those were made by the millions-upon millions. (I've got a bunch of different sized aftermarket ones I paid pretty much fifteen dollars apiece for. One thing about the general drop in demand is it's been cheap to replace all kind of old stuff I had to sell or which had been worn out. I have to admit I would look at and bid on the Canon branded ones and wonder who could possibly be *buying* all of them, even so.

But, there'll probably be one there should I have call for it.
02-23-2009, 12:17 AM   #59
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i bought a G1 for my g/f. Sweet camera but too small for my hands. Also, I don't care for the EVF though it is the best one I've seen. It is the hot ticket for legacy glass though. Lots of Leica film people are buying the G1 and using their lenses. Voight RF lenses as well. But you have to be able to deal with MF using the EVF or lcd screen.

I also shot the G1 with kit lens back to back with my K20d and 35ltd/43ltd indoors with available light (and the Dlux4 as well). No contest - the Pentax crushed it wrt iq and "look." But for what it is, the G1 is a great camera.
02-23-2009, 02:28 AM   #60
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More realistic prediction?
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