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02-16-2009, 02:47 PM   #1
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This 'troll' has company...

Ahem...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=31003733

Better pickup your discounted K20D now...

I am SURE there is much more bad news to come somehow...



Concerned,
Cameron

BTW: I have more invested in Pentax gear than most of the people calling me names last time...

02-16-2009, 03:08 PM   #2
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I'll be suspicious of any "report" not signed or not written on official letterhead paper from the given company it talks about.

I have no doubts that HOYA probably lost money during the past fiscal year, but to blame it on Pentax is way over reasonable interpretations. It is my understanding that Pentax represents less than 10% of Hoya's business, and if that is true, it means that even if not one single Pentax product got sold this year, total company sales should not be lower than 10% of what expected.
02-16-2009, 03:19 PM   #3
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Geez and the rest of the world is doing so well with business booming.

My advice is grow up and either sell your Pentax gear and go canikon or just enjoy your photography with what you have.

This report is not the doom & gloom you want to think it is - perhaps you should learn a bit more about business if it effects your photography so much.
02-16-2009, 03:22 PM   #4
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Doesn't matter

QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
I'll be suspicious of any "report" not signed or not written on official letterhead paper from the given company it talks about.

I have no doubts that HOYA probably lost money during the past fiscal year, but to blame it on Pentax is way over reasonable interpretations. It is my understanding that Pentax represents less than 10% of Hoya's business, and if that is true, it means that even if not one single Pentax product got sold this year, total company sales should not be lower than 10% of what expected.
People can't read........
Operating income is also expected to decrease year-on-year basis,
mainly because of the decline in sales AND amortization of the goodwill in PENTAX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amortize
AND
Extraordinary losses
(1) Reason and the details of extraordinary losses
To respond to the changes in the business environment and improve the Company’s
operating and profit structure, the Company has been restructuring the human recourses. As
a result, the Company expects to record additional retirement benefits as extraordinary losses
for the third quarter of the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009 (October 1, 2008 through
December 31, 2008), and also expects approximately 10 billion yen (consolidated base) to
be recorded for the fourth quarter of the subjective fiscal year (January 1, 2009 throug



AND Hoya only MADE (as in profit) 1/2 as much as the year before... I realize that to some not making as much is the same as losing money, but it really isn't.....depending on the circumstances and reserves.......
This is nothing unexpected.... it will take Hoya at least 3 years to decide on a new direction, if needed..
Heck, they don't even have to go into their cash reserves......... and their cash cow division got hit too........
SEE p5:
http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_3Q_graph.pdf


Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-16-2009 at 03:32 PM.
02-16-2009, 03:37 PM   #5
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Jeffkroll put the picture right. Obviously Hoya has simply accounted for the money they had to pay for acquiring Pentax, to put it into simple words (sorry, my financial English terminology is very limited). Obviously this is going to influence the bottom-line and it does not come as a surprise. It is more of a surprise, that they still make a profit, though even this might change over the next 12 months - and then we won't be surprised again, because this will be more or less the standard situation during a recession.

Ben
02-16-2009, 04:13 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
<doom, gloom, and other ramblings>
I can haz your stuff?
02-16-2009, 04:23 PM   #7
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Okie doke...
02-16-2009, 04:32 PM   #8
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[quote=jeffkrol;491585]People can't read........
Operating income is also expected to decrease year-on-year basis,
mainly because of the decline in sales AND amortization of the Goodwill in PENTAX.

Goodwill is the intangible value of the Pentax brand, history and reputation.

Goodwill expresses the excess paid for Pentax over and above the depreciated net tangible value.

Goodwill is written off versus income over a period o
f years so that the balance sheet of the acquiring company eventually reflects the tangible assets of the acquired.

This was expected - it was known in advance.

Depreciation is an accounting term intended to charge off to income in each year the amount of wear and tear on Plant and Equipment over its useful life (another accounting estimate - the K1000 lines lasted 5 times there expected useful lives, and I bet many of the FA lines have as well), loss of uniqueness of the products, and increase in obsolescence of technology.

Goodwill can also represent the remaining value of Patents.

All of these terms are accounting terms, and may or may not represent cash gains or losses on the books.

Any CFO worth salt is taking every possible write down and recognizing every possible negative right now, so that when we do recover, we are starting with a totally clean sheet.


Don't read things that aren't there.


Last edited by monochrome; 02-16-2009 at 06:29 PM.
02-16-2009, 04:41 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=monochrome;491651]
QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
People can't read........
Operating income is also expected to decrease year-on-year basis,
mainly because of the decline in sales AND amortization of the Goodwill in PENTAX.

Goodwill is the intangible value of the Pentax brand, history and reputation.

Goodwill expresses the excess paid for Pentax over and above the depreciated net tangible value.

Goodwill is written off versus operating income over a period o
f years so that the balance sheet of the acquiring company eventually reflects the tangible assets of the acquired.

This was expected - it was known in advance.

Depreciation is an accounting term intended to charge off to income in each year the amount of wear and tear on Plant and Equipment over its useful life (another accounting estimate - the K1000 lines lasted 5 times there expected useful lives, and I bet many of the FA lines have as well), loss of uniqueness of the products, and increase in obsolescence of technology.

Goodwill can also represent the remaining value of Patents.

All of these terms are accounting terms, and may or may not represent cash gains or losses on the books.

Any CFO worth salt is taking every possible loss and recognizing every possible negative right now, so that when we do recover, we are starting with a totally clean sheet.


Don't read things that aren't there.
My point as well..... paper losses, sort of.
02-16-2009, 04:53 PM   #10
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[quote=jeffkrol;491662]
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote

My point as well..... paper losses, sort of.
Well, they're REAL charge-offs, but they aren't losses. I'd have to do a free cash flow analysis (real money in versus real money out) of Hoya.

It will be bad for the next two years, but not as bad as for Sony.
02-16-2009, 05:15 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
I am SURE there is much more bad news to come somehow...
Others have explained in detail, but I'm going to sum up that dpreview thread in one sentence for you:

The overwhelming majority of people have absolutely no idea how to read company financial statements.
02-16-2009, 05:54 PM   #12
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Off-topic, but does the dpreview forums layout just *suck* for trying to read a thread or is it just me?
02-16-2009, 06:21 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by legacyb4 Quote
Off-topic, but does the dpreview forums layout just *suck* for trying to read a thread or is it just me?
Its not you. They are stuck in a mid90s newsgroup format for some damn reason. As Nostatic so eloquently pointed out in another thread, updating the system over there is easy, its updating the dipshits that is the challenge.
02-16-2009, 06:29 PM   #14
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The OP's right. The statement wasn't exactly big news. With that said, and please don't consider this trolling, I wouldn't be surprised if Pentax became Samsung someday. Marketing just doesn't seem to be Hoya's thing.
02-16-2009, 08:33 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
..


.
You must get a lot of use out of that suit...especially when you:

a) don't understand accounting speak

and

b) post dpr threads as "evidence"

Too bad Hoya didn't make a profit so they could float you a loan to buy a clue or three
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