PMA sneak peak

ltdstar · 02-26-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Ted1212

I saw the link and just ordered one, now I'm a 5D 2 owner with no lenses.

i wanted to order one too...but don't have enough in my credit card

...i guess i need to pay down the balance first...hopefully in a yr or so Pentax will have a FF so I can use all my lenses...

fejker · 02-26-2009, 03:25 PM

Well, to each his own. I use my camera for capturing and can't see why these "new useful" features would help me to achieve a better photo. A nice optimized sensor would help with quality and the fast focusing would help when you need to capture the action. In the end, the photo happens in your head and not in the camera, that's why I think these extra features are just marketing gimmicks.

Why was the K10D such a hit? Because it offers what you need and nothing more. The problem with electronics is, that R&D advances so fast that when you buy something the technology is already outdated (the sensor and guts of the K10D).

Yes old is still good and serves the need, but when you see new technology on the market, you want it. Gadget freaks are suckers and I'm one of them.

I know I'll upgrade this year and still keep my K10D in the bag, it's just a question of what number/letter.

Kunzite · 02-26-2009, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by fejker

@ Kunzite
The K20D to me feels a bit unfinished.

I found out that, while not perfect, the K20D is in many way more refined than the K10D. Even things like a much more gentler mirror slap or a better matrix metering were a pleasant surprise.

Why was the K10D such a hit? I'd say, because it was the biggest step up from the previous model, that would be the *istD. We waited for such a camera for a very, very long time.

fejker · 02-26-2009, 03:38 PM

Agreed Kunzite. But when the K20D came out it didn't feel much of an upgrade from the K10D and the price was too crazy compared to a K10D. At this time the price for the K20D is perfect and I just need to wait for PMA and what Pentax has to show. LBA has already kicked in (15mm ltd.) ... K×D/K××D/××?

What × will it be?

Kunzite · 02-26-2009, 03:52 PM

We'll see. Something tells me that we may never see a "K30D", that Pentax will use new names (starting with K-m); but who really knows?
Btw, I don't think that a new Pentax flagship will be shown at PMA, but probably later this year. I hope I'm wrong, though

Ratmagiclady · 02-26-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

We'll see. Something tells me that we may never see a "K30D", that Pentax will use new names (starting with K-m); but who really knows?
Btw, I don't think that a new Pentax flagship will be shown at PMA, but probably later this year. I hope I'm wrong, though

As naming schemes go, I think that once they're in the 3's, they can drop the 'D' off the model names and have some pretty punchy stuff without repeating old names. There was a K2, but no 'K3.' K30 would sound fine, and you could later have a K3000 without the connotations of '2000' as "What we thought sounded futuristic in the 80s."

With models changing yearly, I think it makes some sense to have an intelligible scheme for people to shop by: it gets kind of crazy when you're dealing with more than one brand and which is an update of or step up from which.

pingflood · 02-26-2009, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

I've never owned a screw mount pentax film body. Did these full frame screw mount film cameras have a focus confirmation feature? If not, then how did people in the 1960's and 1970's focus without a glowing dot?

They had focusing screens designed for manual focus. (e.g. as much of an improvement as the screen in my 1DsII is over any crop sensor camera I've used, my OM2 is still light years ahead when it comes to MF usability)

And honestly, if a feature is available that can help out now and then, why ignore it for the sake of "real photography"? Real photography is getting the shot, not some weird pride thing over how much you struggled to do so. I could scoff at you people for using roll film like a bunch of amateurs when I'm out shooting the 4x5, but nobody really gives a rat's ass as to how you arrived at the results -- if your picture is good, it's good, whether it was done with a $50 point and shoot or an 8x10 chrome.

Last edited by pingflood; 02-26-2009 at 05:54 PM.

Samsungian · 02-26-2009, 06:15 PM

I've read sometimes people fry out their circuit board in eos cameras using aftermarket focus confirmation chips. Really all these focus confirmation chips are aftermarket, right?

I don't need a focus confirmation dot.

Is this "Weird Pride"?

I Don't need it, don't want it, I see my shots are in or out of focus. Having a full size viewfinder works just fine for me. I find using K20D over my older 6mp K Mount dslrs is much better. I find my 5D & D700 viewfinders are both far better than K20D viewfinder.

Anyways the Nikon has a focus dot for manual focus mount glass. I am amused D700 tells me which way to rotate the focus ring. I forgot to add, unlike my K20D when I input lens data for up to 20 lenses it asks me for max aperture too. So when I close down my 85mm 1.4 AiS nikon lens with each click that change shows up in viewfinder data. Yet no electronics tell it so. Very nice feature for capturing complete metadata from a 1981 lens.

Originally posted by pingflood

They had focusing screens designed for manual focus.

And honestly, if a feature is available that can help out now and then, why ignore it for the sake of "real photography"? Real photography is getting the shot, not some weird pride thing over how much you struggled to do so.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 02-26-2009, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by fejker

@ Kunzite
The K20D to me feels a bit unfinished. The poor live view (that I don't like to use anyway), too many useless features which I'll never use ... like presets for developing RAW, etc.
The K10D is a great tool for taking pictures, can't they just stay in that realm and trim off all the useless features of P&S cameras. These cameras are becoming Swiss army knifes, maybe the next generation will have a bottle opener on the grip and shoot confetti.

Sorry for ranting, I needed to get that out of my system ... it's been building up since they introduced the K20D which wasn't quite what I expected.

So if there is a K30D with new sensor, less noise on high iso, faster AF, more frames/sec etc buth with poor live view (which you don't use) and presets for developing RAW (which you don't use) etc you wont buy it?

Or did I get you wrong?

(Didn't know my K20D has "presets for developing", had to check with the manual, what ana amazing thing!

I'm sure I will learn how to use them as soon as I'm stuck in a broken elevator from some hours without anything else to do...but if it help them selling any extra copies I don't mind.)

Ratmagiclady · 02-26-2009, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

So if there is a K30D with new sensor, less noise on high iso, faster AF, more frames/sec etc buth with poor live view (which you don't use) and presets for developing RAW (which you don't use) etc you wont buy it?

Or did I get you wrong?

(Didn't know my K20D has "presets for developing", had to check with the manual, what ana amazing thing!

I'm sure I will learn how to use them as soon as I'm stuck in a broken elevator from some hours without anything else to do...but if it help them selling any extra copies I don't mind.)

Yeah, that's a bit silly. Live view has potential use, but it's not like it'd make or break a sale for me, unless someone dimmed the viewfinder or slowed the camera or otherwise left something more useful out to make the live view 'advanced.' I'd mostly just use it to frame better when shooting over my head, anyway, and I used to do OK at that with MF and a bit of practice.

I haven't figured much out about it, either, but the K20 being able to do some of the computer work is a real potential bonus for me, ...can potentially take some of the load off my really-old computers that way.

Does seem, though, that you can shoot Jpegs in monochrome, or whatever preset settings you like, then change em later. Which keeps blowing my little analog mind, when I stumble across the feature, but this could be very useful.

thePiRaTE!! · 02-26-2009, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

...Anyways the Nikon has a focus dot for manual focus mount glass. I am amused D700 tells me which way to rotate the focus ring. I forgot to add, unlike my K20D when I input lens data for up to 20 lenses it asks me for max aperture too. So when I close down my 85mm 1.4 AiS nikon lens with each click that change shows up in viewfinder data. Yet no electronics tell it so. Very nice feature for capturing complete metadata from a 1981 lens.

Really? Thats actually very cool. You mean to say you just attach an old lens, input focal length and aperture value and the camera predicts aperture when manually stopping down? Its a bit of a pain with the A900 by comparison - focus confirmation adapter is necessary so the in-body SR knows the right focal length, because you can't input manually so it has to be programmed on the adpater. Max aperture is also on the adapter, so exif is correct when wide open, at least. If desired, dialing aperture on body while manual lens is open, locking the EV and then stopping down the lens before shooting will produce correct exif and exposure, but thats a lot compared to what you're saying. The in-body SR is definately sweet though as we well know here.

Samsungian · 02-26-2009, 08:08 PM

I can enter data for up to 20 nikon lenses into my camera and select the one I'm shooting. Then as I close or open its aperture it shows that change in viewfinder data.

I'd guess this feature is due to Nikon mount evolving & not being entirely abandoned. Canon abandoned their FD mount. Minolta abandoned thier MD mount too. I'd guess Pentax should add this feature on a later body too as its very handy. I'm still slowly picking my way thru the D700 instructions. I've never owned a nikon camera before so its all new to me.

You win with inbody shake reduction on a full frame Sony. So many forum speculators said this feature was not possible.

Every maker has desirable features but not everyone has them all. If you are willing to add a second or third brand to the tool bag it certainly opens up new options. Like this:

On ebay right now a VERY RARE drop in polarizer for a pentax supertelephoto is buy it now for $449. You can buy same item for eos super tele for $120 used, $150 brand new. $300 saving new versus used.

In my used lens auction searches I see some amazing minolta alpha af mount stuff out of Japan at very good prices too. I have no clue about minolta af, but their used white paint pro glass sure looks appealing price wise considering you A900 owners can stabilize it all.

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

Really? Thats actually very cool. You mean to say you just attach an old lens, input focal length and aperture value and the camera predicts aperture when manually stopping down? Its a bit of a pain with the A900 by comparison - focus confirmation adapter is necessary so the in-body SR knows the right focal length, because you can't input manually so it has to be programmed on the adpater. Max aperture is also on the adapter, so exif is correct when wide open, at least. If desired, dialing aperture on body while manual lens is open, locking the EV and then stopping down the lens before shooting will produce correct exif and exposure, but thats a lot compared to what you're saying. The in-body SR is definately sweet though as we well know here.

Ratmagiclady · 02-26-2009, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

Really? Thats actually very cool. You mean to say you just attach an old lens, input focal length and aperture value and the camera predicts aperture when manually stopping down? Its a bit of a pain with the A900 by comparison - focus confirmation adapter is necessary so the in-body SR knows the right focal length, because you can't input manually so it has to be programmed on the adpater. Max aperture is also on the adapter, so exif is correct when wide open, at least. If desired, dialing aperture on body while manual lens is open, locking the EV and then stopping down the lens before shooting will produce correct exif and exposure, but thats a lot compared to what you're saying. The in-body SR is definately sweet though as we well know here.

*peering into K20.* Doesn't this side-coupling on a KA-mount lens tell the body (or lens) that , mechanically, anyway, for all that's worth in practice, here?

Aha. Never mind, I think I see how that goes. That piece doesn't move, there, and this one only does this. Never mind.

fejker · 02-27-2009, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

So if there is a K30D with new sensor, less noise on high iso, faster AF, more frames/sec etc buth with poor live view (which you don't use) and presets for developing RAW (which you don't use) etc you wont buy it?

Or did I get you wrong?

(Didn't know my K20D has "presets for developing", had to check with the manual, what ana amazing thing!

I'm sure I will learn how to use them as soon as I'm stuck in a broken elevator from some hours without anything else to do...but if it help them selling any extra copies I don't mind.)

You got me wrong.

If there even will be a K30D at PMA and if it's a lot better than the K20D I'll go for it. If it's not, then a cheap K20D will do for me.
The price factor was the deciding point for me when the K20D came out ... it just didn't feel right paying so much more for a camera that actually isn't that much different from my point of view from the K10D (the features that I wouldn't use in the K20D but would have to pay for).

frank · 02-27-2009, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Its instock right now! Count the minutes or hours before the 5D2 goes out of stock and then tell me there is no demand, no real buyers for full frame dslrs ;^)

Canon | EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera (Camera Body) | 2764B003

What I'm seeing is:

# Back-ordered
# This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time.

02-26-2009, 06:15 PM	#38
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	"Weird Pride"? I don't care to use focus confirmation adapters. I've read sometimes people fry out their circuit board in eos cameras using aftermarket focus confirmation chips. Really all these focus confirmation chips are aftermarket, right? I don't need a focus confirmation dot. Is this "Weird Pride"? I Don't need it, don't want it, I see my shots are in or out of focus. Having a full size viewfinder works just fine for me. I find using K20D over my older 6mp K Mount dslrs is much better. I find my 5D & D700 viewfinders are both far better than K20D viewfinder. Anyways the Nikon has a focus dot for manual focus mount glass. I am amused D700 tells me which way to rotate the focus ring. I forgot to add, unlike my K20D when I input lens data for up to 20 lenses it asks me for max aperture too. So when I close down my 85mm 1.4 AiS nikon lens with each click that change shows up in viewfinder data. Yet no electronics tell it so. Very nice feature for capturing complete metadata from a 1981 lens. Originally posted by pingflood They had focusing screens designed for manual focus. And honestly, if a feature is available that can help out now and then, why ignore it for the sake of "real photography"? Real photography is getting the shot, not some weird pride thing over how much you struggled to do so.

02-26-2009, 08:08 PM	#42
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	yes I can enter data for up to 20 nikon lenses into my camera and select the one I'm shooting. Then as I close or open its aperture it shows that change in viewfinder data. I'd guess this feature is due to Nikon mount evolving & not being entirely abandoned. Canon abandoned their FD mount. Minolta abandoned thier MD mount too. I'd guess Pentax should add this feature on a later body too as its very handy. I'm still slowly picking my way thru the D700 instructions. I've never owned a nikon camera before so its all new to me. You win with inbody shake reduction on a full frame Sony. So many forum speculators said this feature was not possible. Every maker has desirable features but not everyone has them all. If you are willing to add a second or third brand to the tool bag it certainly opens up new options. Like this: On ebay right now a VERY RARE drop in polarizer for a pentax supertelephoto is buy it now for $449. You can buy same item for eos super tele for $120 used, $150 brand new. $300 saving new versus used. In my used lens auction searches I see some amazing minolta alpha af mount stuff out of Japan at very good prices too. I have no clue about minolta af, but their used white paint pro glass sure looks appealing price wise considering you A900 owners can stabilize it all. Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! Really? Thats actually very cool. You mean to say you just attach an old lens, input focal length and aperture value and the camera predicts aperture when manually stopping down? Its a bit of a pain with the A900 by comparison - focus confirmation adapter is necessary so the in-body SR knows the right focal length, because you can't input manually so it has to be programmed on the adpater. Max aperture is also on the adapter, so exif is correct when wide open, at least. If desired, dialing aperture on body while manual lens is open, locking the EV and then stopping down the lens before shooting will produce correct exif and exposure, but thats a lot compared to what you're saying. The in-body SR is definately sweet though as we well know here. Last edited by Samsungian; 02-26-2009 at 08:29 PM. Reason: added "sony a900 owners"

02-26-2009, 08:31 PM	#43
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! Really? Thats actually very cool. You mean to say you just attach an old lens, input focal length and aperture value and the camera predicts aperture when manually stopping down? Its a bit of a pain with the A900 by comparison - focus confirmation adapter is necessary so the in-body SR knows the right focal length, because you can't input manually so it has to be programmed on the adpater. Max aperture is also on the adapter, so exif is correct when wide open, at least. If desired, dialing aperture on body while manual lens is open, locking the EV and then stopping down the lens before shooting will produce correct exif and exposure, but thats a lot compared to what you're saying. The in-body SR is definately sweet though as we well know here. peering into K20. Doesn't this side-coupling on a KA-mount lens tell the body (or lens) that , mechanically, anyway, for all that's worth in practice, here? Aha. Never mind, I think I see how that goes. That piece doesn't move, there, and this one only does this. Never mind. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 02-26-2009 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Nevermind. :)

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02-26-2009, 03:17 PM	#31
ltdstar Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 285	Originally posted by Ted1212 I saw the link and just ordered one, now I'm a 5D 2 owner with no lenses. i wanted to order one too...but don't have enough in my credit card ...i guess i need to pay down the balance first...hopefully in a yr or so Pentax will have a FF so I can use all my lenses...

02-26-2009, 03:25 PM	#32
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Well, to each his own. I use my camera for capturing and can't see why these "new useful" features would help me to achieve a better photo. A nice optimized sensor would help with quality and the fast focusing would help when you need to capture the action. In the end, the photo happens in your head and not in the camera, that's why I think these extra features are just marketing gimmicks. Why was the K10D such a hit? Because it offers what you need and nothing more. The problem with electronics is, that R&D advances so fast that when you buy something the technology is already outdated (the sensor and guts of the K10D). Yes old is still good and serves the need, but when you see new technology on the market, you want it. Gadget freaks are suckers and I'm one of them. I know I'll upgrade this year and still keep my K10D in the bag, it's just a question of what number/letter.

02-26-2009, 03:27 PM	#33
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by fejker @ Kunzite The K20D to me feels a bit unfinished. I found out that, while not perfect, the K20D is in many way more refined than the K10D. Even things like a much more gentler mirror slap or a better matrix metering were a pleasant surprise. Why was the K10D such a hit? I'd say, because it was the biggest step up from the previous model, that would be the *istD. We waited for such a camera for a very, very long time.

02-26-2009, 03:38 PM	#34
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Agreed Kunzite. But when the K20D came out it didn't feel much of an upgrade from the K10D and the price was too crazy compared to a K10D. At this time the price for the K20D is perfect and I just need to wait for PMA and what Pentax has to show. LBA has already kicked in (15mm ltd.) ... K×D/K××D/××? What × will it be?

02-26-2009, 03:52 PM	#35
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	We'll see. Something tells me that we may never see a "K30D", that Pentax will use new names (starting with K-m); but who really knows? Btw, I don't think that a new Pentax flagship will be shown at PMA, but probably later this year. I hope I'm wrong, though

02-26-2009, 04:41 PM	#36
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Kunzite We'll see. Something tells me that we may never see a "K30D", that Pentax will use new names (starting with K-m); but who really knows? Btw, I don't think that a new Pentax flagship will be shown at PMA, but probably later this year. I hope I'm wrong, though As naming schemes go, I think that once they're in the 3's, they can drop the 'D' off the model names and have some pretty punchy stuff without repeating old names. There was a K2, but no 'K3.' K30 would sound fine, and you could later have a K3000 without the connotations of '2000' as "What we thought sounded futuristic in the 80s." With models changing yearly, I think it makes some sense to have an intelligible scheme for people to shop by: it gets kind of crazy when you're dealing with more than one brand and which is an update of or step up from which.

02-26-2009, 05:49 PM	#37
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by Samsungian I've never owned a screw mount pentax film body. Did these full frame screw mount film cameras have a focus confirmation feature? If not, then how did people in the 1960's and 1970's focus without a glowing dot? They had focusing screens designed for manual focus. (e.g. as much of an improvement as the screen in my 1DsII is over any crop sensor camera I've used, my OM2 is still light years ahead when it comes to MF usability) And honestly, if a feature is available that can help out now and then, why ignore it for the sake of "real photography"? Real photography is getting the shot, not some weird pride thing over how much you struggled to do so. I could scoff at you people for using roll film like a bunch of amateurs when I'm out shooting the 4x5, but nobody really gives a rat's ass as to how you arrived at the results -- if your picture is good, it's good, whether it was done with a $50 point and shoot or an 8x10 chrome. Last edited by pingflood; 02-26-2009 at 05:54 PM.

02-26-2009, 07:01 PM	#39
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	Originally posted by fejker @ Kunzite The K20D to me feels a bit unfinished. The poor live view (that I don't like to use anyway), too many useless features which I'll never use ... like presets for developing RAW, etc. The K10D is a great tool for taking pictures, can't they just stay in that realm and trim off all the useless features of P&S cameras. These cameras are becoming Swiss army knifes, maybe the next generation will have a bottle opener on the grip and shoot confetti. Sorry for ranting, I needed to get that out of my system ... it's been building up since they introduced the K20D which wasn't quite what I expected. So if there is a K30D with new sensor, less noise on high iso, faster AF, more frames/sec etc buth with poor live view (which you don't use) and presets for developing RAW (which you don't use) etc you wont buy it? Or did I get you wrong? (Didn't know my K20D has "presets for developing", had to check with the manual, what ana amazing thing! I'm sure I will learn how to use them as soon as I'm stuck in a broken elevator from some hours without anything else to do...but if it help them selling any extra copies I don't mind.)

02-26-2009, 07:14 PM	#40
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden So if there is a K30D with new sensor, less noise on high iso, faster AF, more frames/sec etc buth with poor live view (which you don't use) and presets for developing RAW (which you don't use) etc you wont buy it? Or did I get you wrong? (Didn't know my K20D has "presets for developing", had to check with the manual, what ana amazing thing! I'm sure I will learn how to use them as soon as I'm stuck in a broken elevator from some hours without anything else to do...but if it help them selling any extra copies I don't mind.) Yeah, that's a bit silly. Live view has potential use, but it's not like it'd make or break a sale for me, unless someone dimmed the viewfinder or slowed the camera or otherwise left something more useful out to make the live view 'advanced.' I'd mostly just use it to frame better when shooting over my head, anyway, and I used to do OK at that with MF and a bit of practice. I haven't figured much out about it, either, but the K20 being able to do some of the computer work is a real potential bonus for me, ...can potentially take some of the load off my really-old computers that way. Does seem, though, that you can shoot Jpegs in monochrome, or whatever preset settings you like, then change em later. Which keeps blowing my little analog mind, when I stumble across the feature, but this could be very useful.

02-26-2009, 07:22 PM	#41
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942	Originally posted by Samsungian ...Anyways the Nikon has a focus dot for manual focus mount glass. I am amused D700 tells me which way to rotate the focus ring. I forgot to add, unlike my K20D when I input lens data for up to 20 lenses it asks me for max aperture too. So when I close down my 85mm 1.4 AiS nikon lens with each click that change shows up in viewfinder data. Yet no electronics tell it so. Very nice feature for capturing complete metadata from a 1981 lens. Really? Thats actually very cool. You mean to say you just attach an old lens, input focal length and aperture value and the camera predicts aperture when manually stopping down? Its a bit of a pain with the A900 by comparison - focus confirmation adapter is necessary so the in-body SR knows the right focal length, because you can't input manually so it has to be programmed on the adpater. Max aperture is also on the adapter, so exif is correct when wide open, at least. If desired, dialing aperture on body while manual lens is open, locking the EV and then stopping down the lens before shooting will produce correct exif and exposure, but thats a lot compared to what you're saying. The in-body SR is definately sweet though as we well know here.

02-27-2009, 01:56 AM	#44
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden So if there is a K30D with new sensor, less noise on high iso, faster AF, more frames/sec etc buth with poor live view (which you don't use) and presets for developing RAW (which you don't use) etc you wont buy it? Or did I get you wrong? (Didn't know my K20D has "presets for developing", had to check with the manual, what ana amazing thing! I'm sure I will learn how to use them as soon as I'm stuck in a broken elevator from some hours without anything else to do...but if it help them selling any extra copies I don't mind.) You got me wrong. If there even will be a K30D at PMA and if it's a lot better than the K20D I'll go for it. If it's not, then a cheap K20D will do for me. The price factor was the deciding point for me when the K20D came out ... it just didn't feel right paying so much more for a camera that actually isn't that much different from my point of view from the K10D (the features that I wouldn't use in the K20D but would have to pay for).

02-27-2009, 02:26 AM	#45
frank Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,202	Originally posted by Samsungian Its instock right now! Count the minutes or hours before the 5D2 goes out of stock and then tell me there is no demand, no real buyers for full frame dslrs ;^) Canon \| EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera (Camera Body) \| 2764B003 What I'm seeing is: # Back-ordered # This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time.