Samsung's cross over between SLR and comptact camera

Art Vandelay II · 03-02-2009, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by ajuett

So unless the Samsung and maybe Pentax version can use existing K mounts without the cost of a $200 adapter (Panasonic Adapter 4/3 to m4/3 as reference) I don't see the point.

I don't think Samsung is too concerned with the K-Mount, nor should they be. Outside of this forum I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the K-Mount; much less care about it.

Lets face facts, the K-mount is what, 35 years old now or so? How many other modern digital technologies are retrofitted to 1970's era standards outside of SLR's? Time goes on and technology changes, there's no sense in sticking with a lens mount that was designed before an EVF was even imaginable. For those that want to use 30 year old glass there will always be adapters. But that is hardly the market Samsung should be concerned with if they want to sell cameras. Besides, while a lot of those old lenses were incredibility well made, most all modern lenses out perform them. I simply don't see a need for them outside of novelty use or for nostalgic reasons. And for that a person can pick up a K1000 and a roll of film for $50.

jay · 03-02-2009, 09:52 AM

I don't think a custom TTL flash system on Samsung's part counts out a Pentax K-mount adapter.

You have to remember, the existing Samsung D-SLRs use the Pentax K-mount, so my bet is they'll probably design a new, incompatible lens mount (to prevent people from trying to mount their existing Samsung D-SLR lenses directly, and getting confused....), but have an extension tube with a KAF3 mount on the other end, that translates powerzoom / SDM functionality.

If they are to have in-lens SR, that doesn't mean a KAF3 mount adapter won't be available -- it sounds more like a marketing move to allow people to use their old Samsung D-SLR lenses (without SR), encouraging them to buy new micro-KAF3 (or whatever) lenses.

Obviously, this is a great step in the right direction -- if they would have "stuck it to the (micro-4/3rds) man," but stuck with the 4/3rds sensor size, that would have been catastrophic. But this is a great niche to get into -- retaining the APS-C sensor allows them to sell this camera as a compact version of a full D-SLR, with identical IQ.

I'm very impressed, and, depending on what the full specs say, I'll be in line to pick one up ASAP.

(I've mentioned this before, but I still think the holy grail would be a compact Red-style build-up camera system with a digital back (with the LCD and CPU and stuff), but with two interchangable fronts -- one with an EVF and shallow flange distance, and one with a full mirror box... Samsung, hear my prayers!)

ytterbium · 03-02-2009, 09:57 AM

A little fooling around in GIMP, sizes may not be accurate as i used hotshoe for reference.
Anyway my conclusion - it isnt that much smaller than G1, but it seems less bulkier.
Also note that the G1 has no lens mounted.

Bophoto · 03-02-2009, 10:05 AM

But isn´t it the button on top that is SR?:

Attached Images

falconeye · 03-02-2009, 10:29 AM

Samsung NX...

Well. let me jump to conclusion. Let's see how wrong I was tomorrow

First, Samsung claims to want to become market leader for digital still cameras in 2012. This must include micro-APSC now. A market segment they say themselves will be 20% overall.

Second, it is exchangeable lens but they are still sorting out their options.

Third, the current prototype uses Canon EOS mount with the wrong register distance, or just a new mount inspired by Canon.

Fourth, they offer two adapters:
1. Canon (for sure)
2. K (legacy for existing customers, maybe -- maybe they allow Pentax to build one)

Fifth, because the register distance is smaller and it has 15MP, the prime lens in new mount will be 21mm.

Sixth, they don't give up DSLR but jump a model.

Seventh, as soon as their FF sensor gets ready they will be back in DSLR game

Eigth, whatever you like

Steelski · 03-02-2009, 10:31 AM

Yes, I think that button represents inbuilt SR, Could be that the mockup lenses are really just mockups.

pingflood · 03-02-2009, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Fourth, they offer two adapters:
1. Canon (for sure)
2. K (legacy for existing customers, maybe -- maybe they allow Pentax to build one)

Allow or not, if there's demand somebody will provide an adapter.

ogl · 03-02-2009, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by bophoto

but isn´t it the button on top that is sr?:

no. No. No.

deejjjaaaa · 03-02-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by ogl

no. No. No.

my theory is that it will zoom selected focus point to fill the viewfinder area to allow more precise (manual) focusing... it is EVF, so no problem to do that... G1 has such feature

ghelary · 03-02-2009, 11:04 AM

From a French site (link for those who read French)

They mentionned that the release in French from the announcment had all reference to the shrinkage of the registration distance removed. Instead it was only mentionned weight and size down by 60%.

So the marketing releases that we got so must be taken with a pinch of salt. Lets wait press conference of the PMA for more real technical data. Marketers are not engineers and they don't tend to be accurate to say the least.

Regards,
Guillaume

falconeye · 03-02-2009, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

Allow or not, if there's demand somebody will provide an adapter.

One should think so.
Unfortunately, nobody can prevent Samsung from putting an encrypted signal onto their mount which forces any builder of an adapter to license the decryption. Which is why I said "allow"...

thibs · 03-02-2009, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

One should think so.
Unfortunately, nobody can prevent Samsung from putting an encrypted signal onto their mount which forces any builder of an adapter to license the decryption. Which is why I said "allow"...

and can be reverse engineered although... that what Sigma does, and not always succesfully ...

montecarlo · 03-02-2009, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay II

I don't think Samsung is too concerned with the K-Mount, nor should they be. Outside of this forum I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the K-Mount; much less care about it.

Lets face facts, the K-mount is what, 35 years old now or so? How many other modern digital technologies are retrofitted to 1970's era standards outside of SLR's? Time goes on and technology changes, there's no sense in sticking with a lens mount that was designed before an EVF was even imaginable. For those that want to use 30 year old glass there will always be adapters. But that is hardly the market Samsung should be concerned with if they want to sell cameras. Besides, while a lot of those old lenses were incredibility well made, most all modern lenses out perform them. I simply don't see a need for them outside of novelty use or for nostalgic reasons. And for that a person can pick up a K1000 and a roll of film for $50.

See F Nikon mount. One can use a Nikon lens on any Nikon SLR and and the D300/700/3/x works the light meter and focus confirmation (I think even better than with the crippled KAF pentax mount where you need to push the green/AE-L button to take a reading , althogh I'm not suer how the older Nikon lens works on the bodies mentioned).

dave sz · 03-02-2009, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Spag

It's on DP Review too now:

Samsung unveils new NX series camera system: Digital Photography Review

sorry but what was the point of that? WHy link to the exact same story and on a different site, especially DPR?

dave sz · 03-02-2009, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay II

I don't think Samsung is too concerned with the K-Mount, nor should they be. Outside of this forum I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the K-Mount; much less care about it.

Lets face facts, the K-mount is what, 35 years old now or so? How many other modern digital technologies are retrofitted to 1970's era standards outside of SLR's? Time goes on and technology changes, there's no sense in sticking with a lens mount that was designed before an EVF was even imaginable. For those that want to use 30 year old glass there will always be adapters. But that is hardly the market Samsung should be concerned with if they want to sell cameras. Besides, while a lot of those old lenses were incredibility well made, most all modern lenses out perform them. I simply don't see a need for them outside of novelty use or for nostalgic reasons. And for that a person can pick up a K1000 and a roll of film for $50.

please explain to me how or why the mount being 35 years old matters?

03-02-2009, 09:57 AM	#48
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076	A little fooling around in GIMP, sizes may not be accurate as i used hotshoe for reference. Anyway my conclusion - it isnt that much smaller than G1, but it seems less bulkier. Also note that the G1 has no lens mounted. Attached Images

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03-02-2009, 09:49 AM	#46
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Originally posted by ajuett So unless the Samsung and maybe Pentax version can use existing K mounts without the cost of a $200 adapter (Panasonic Adapter 4/3 to m4/3 as reference) I don't see the point. I don't think Samsung is too concerned with the K-Mount, nor should they be. Outside of this forum I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the K-Mount; much less care about it. Lets face facts, the K-mount is what, 35 years old now or so? How many other modern digital technologies are retrofitted to 1970's era standards outside of SLR's? Time goes on and technology changes, there's no sense in sticking with a lens mount that was designed before an EVF was even imaginable. For those that want to use 30 year old glass there will always be adapters. But that is hardly the market Samsung should be concerned with if they want to sell cameras. Besides, while a lot of those old lenses were incredibility well made, most all modern lenses out perform them. I simply don't see a need for them outside of novelty use or for nostalgic reasons. And for that a person can pick up a K1000 and a roll of film for $50.

03-02-2009, 09:52 AM	#47
jay Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA Posts: 65	I don't think a custom TTL flash system on Samsung's part counts out a Pentax K-mount adapter. You have to remember, the existing Samsung D-SLRs use the Pentax K-mount, so my bet is they'll probably design a new, incompatible lens mount (to prevent people from trying to mount their existing Samsung D-SLR lenses directly, and getting confused....), but have an extension tube with a KAF3 mount on the other end, that translates powerzoom / SDM functionality. If they are to have in-lens SR, that doesn't mean a KAF3 mount adapter won't be available -- it sounds more like a marketing move to allow people to use their old Samsung D-SLR lenses (without SR), encouraging them to buy new micro-KAF3 (or whatever) lenses. Obviously, this is a great step in the right direction -- if they would have "stuck it to the (micro-4/3rds) man," but stuck with the 4/3rds sensor size, that would have been catastrophic. But this is a great niche to get into -- retaining the APS-C sensor allows them to sell this camera as a compact version of a full D-SLR, with identical IQ. I'm very impressed, and, depending on what the full specs say, I'll be in line to pick one up ASAP. (I've mentioned this before, but I still think the holy grail would be a compact Red-style build-up camera system with a digital back (with the LCD and CPU and stuff), but with two interchangable fronts -- one with an EVF and shallow flange distance, and one with a full mirror box... Samsung, hear my prayers!)

03-02-2009, 10:05 AM	#49
Bophoto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 429	But isn´t it the button on top that is SR?: Attached Images

03-02-2009, 10:29 AM	#50
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Samsung NX... Well. let me jump to conclusion. Let's see how wrong I was tomorrow First, Samsung claims to want to become market leader for digital still cameras in 2012. This must include micro-APSC now. A market segment they say themselves will be 20% overall. Second, it is exchangeable lens but they are still sorting out their options. Third, the current prototype uses Canon EOS mount with the wrong register distance, or just a new mount inspired by Canon. Fourth, they offer two adapters: 1. Canon (for sure) 2. K (legacy for existing customers, maybe -- maybe they allow Pentax to build one) Fifth, because the register distance is smaller and it has 15MP, the prime lens in new mount will be 21mm. Sixth, they don't give up DSLR but jump a model. Seventh, as soon as their FF sensor gets ready they will be back in DSLR game Eigth, whatever you like

03-02-2009, 10:31 AM	#51
Steelski Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Varna Posts: 470	Yes, I think that button represents inbuilt SR, Could be that the mockup lenses are really just mockups.

03-02-2009, 10:34 AM	#52
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by falconeye Fourth, they offer two adapters: 1. Canon (for sure) 2. K (legacy for existing customers, maybe -- maybe they allow Pentax to build one) Allow or not, if there's demand somebody will provide an adapter.

03-02-2009, 10:38 AM	#53
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by bophoto but isn´t it the button on top that is sr?: no. No. No.

03-02-2009, 10:47 AM	#54
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by ogl no. No. No. my theory is that it will zoom selected focus point to fill the viewfinder area to allow more precise (manual) focusing... it is EVF, so no problem to do that... G1 has such feature

03-02-2009, 11:04 AM	#55
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613 Original Poster	From a French site (link for those who read French) They mentionned that the release in French from the announcment had all reference to the shrinkage of the registration distance removed. Instead it was only mentionned weight and size down by 60%. So the marketing releases that we got so must be taken with a pinch of salt. Lets wait press conference of the PMA for more real technical data. Marketers are not engineers and they don't tend to be accurate to say the least. Regards, Guillaume

03-02-2009, 11:49 AM	#56
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by pingflood Allow or not, if there's demand somebody will provide an adapter. One should think so. Unfortunately, nobody can prevent Samsung from putting an encrypted signal onto their mount which forces any builder of an adapter to license the decryption. Which is why I said "allow"...

03-02-2009, 11:57 AM	#57
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by falconeye One should think so. Unfortunately, nobody can prevent Samsung from putting an encrypted signal onto their mount which forces any builder of an adapter to license the decryption. Which is why I said "allow"... and can be reverse engineered although... that what Sigma does, and not always succesfully ...

03-02-2009, 12:10 PM	#58
montecarlo Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 161	Originally posted by Art Vandelay II I don't think Samsung is too concerned with the K-Mount, nor should they be. Outside of this forum I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the K-Mount; much less care about it. Lets face facts, the K-mount is what, 35 years old now or so? How many other modern digital technologies are retrofitted to 1970's era standards outside of SLR's? Time goes on and technology changes, there's no sense in sticking with a lens mount that was designed before an EVF was even imaginable. For those that want to use 30 year old glass there will always be adapters. But that is hardly the market Samsung should be concerned with if they want to sell cameras. Besides, while a lot of those old lenses were incredibility well made, most all modern lenses out perform them. I simply don't see a need for them outside of novelty use or for nostalgic reasons. And for that a person can pick up a K1000 and a roll of film for $50. See F Nikon mount. One can use a Nikon lens on any Nikon SLR and and the D300/700/3/x works the light meter and focus confirmation (I think even better than with the crippled KAF pentax mount where you need to push the green/AE-L button to take a reading , althogh I'm not suer how the older Nikon lens works on the bodies mentioned).

03-02-2009, 02:09 PM	#59
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	Originally posted by Spag It's on DP Review too now: Samsung unveils new NX series camera system: Digital Photography Review sorry but what was the point of that? WHy link to the exact same story and on a different site, especially DPR?

03-02-2009, 02:12 PM	#60
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	Originally posted by Art Vandelay II I don't think Samsung is too concerned with the K-Mount, nor should they be. Outside of this forum I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the K-Mount; much less care about it. Lets face facts, the K-mount is what, 35 years old now or so? How many other modern digital technologies are retrofitted to 1970's era standards outside of SLR's? Time goes on and technology changes, there's no sense in sticking with a lens mount that was designed before an EVF was even imaginable. For those that want to use 30 year old glass there will always be adapters. But that is hardly the market Samsung should be concerned with if they want to sell cameras. Besides, while a lot of those old lenses were incredibility well made, most all modern lenses out perform them. I simply don't see a need for them outside of novelty use or for nostalgic reasons. And for that a person can pick up a K1000 and a roll of film for $50. please explain to me how or why the mount being 35 years old matters?